Pre Season '16: Reds v Brumbies

[TOCC]

The white jersey they no longer wear?

I thought you said they hadn't revealed the 2016 away jersey...
Either way, who gives a shit, jerseys clashed, lets hope it doesn't happen again.

 

[Mr Doug]

No. What I am saying, is the home team chooses their home jersey and the Reds chose this pre-season trial jersey. It wasn't blue. It was grey. They wore it last week. Did the Brumbies not bother to take note?

I will stick by my original thought, that the Brumbies management stuffed up.

Oh, and don't worry. You don't have to remind me we got confused by the colours. I was there. The players did too at times, as we commented on. A shame the Brumbies weren't more sensible about it all.

Ha, ha, Reg, Mrs Doug did too, cheering for the wrong team on several occasions, but she did the same last week, cheering for the team in "red"! How dumb are we thinking that The Queensland Reds would actually wear a "red jersey"!!! But then, we do (originally) come from NSW!

2016 ARU promotional theme:

"Come see the game they play in 50 shades of grey"!!!

 

[Mr Doug]

So you say the jerseys were grey. Well, they were a different "shade of grey" to the socks (which were much lighter)!
Queensland: Once Maroon, then Red, then Red and White horizontal stripes, then White, and now dark grey/light grey.
I wonder if I will live long enough for me to see them appear, (in trials only, mind you), in an all-black strip)?!

 

[Scoey]

Christ on a bike! First world problems much? I know you've all been Rugby starved over the off season and are probably a bit tetchy but seriously......

 

[TSR]

Definitely keen for the first game kick off Scoey. Whatever colour they wear.

 

[Luvmyrugby]

Why. Flyhalf and 12 are not the problem. The issue in attack is the lack of any structure past 2nd phase. The issue in defence is the weakness on the flanks just as it has been for the past two years. The loss of Gill also didn't help as without him they struggled at the breakdown.

10 and 12 not the problem? 1 lucky try in two games! No game management, no Plan B, no midfield presence, brains or communication.
This is the crux of the problem....except the coach

 

[liquor box]

My only issue with the jerseys is that if I attend a home game I want to wear my jersey to the game and be in the same color, how many fans have this new shirt? This is the idea of buying a shirt your team wears.

I wonder if next year we will have a first half of a trial game jersey that is blue and a second half trial game jersey that is grey?

 

[Luvmyrugby]

Filth Rugby, I hope Greene does get some time in the last trial. But I think it is going to be hard to make a reasonable assessment of any of the backs, but either of the 10s in particular, whilst we pursue our current game strategy. Unfortunately McIntyre vs Greene seems largely irrelevant to me at present.



I am really disappointed about last night. I have spent the last couple of weeks looking at the playing group thinking to myself there is some real potential amongst this squad. The addition of Damien Marsh should make a real difference to match day performance. There is some real strength in the tight 5 The addition of a fit Tui & a developing LoLo adds balance to our back row. Individually Kerevi, CFS, Hunt & Nabuli all showed they can cause headaches in attack. Goromura can play at this level given his test experience. I am looking forward to Frisby getting a real crack at the 9 spot. All up I genuinely thought that if the injury gods were kind there was a lot to look forward to.



Last night was tripe. I am reminding myself it's preseason and I live in hope that they will get better - but the phrase about an idiot doing the same thing and expecting a different result runs through my mind.

It was tripe
Just like last week. 1 try (a quick tap and fall over the line) is hardly evidence of any attacking ability, or strategy.
I think any discussion around tactics and game plans needs to be prefaced by personnel. Apart form the tight five, and Gill of course, almost the rest of the team doesn't bear much of a microscope.
The back row is a shambles.

• Lolo is an oversized and over-rated schoolboy who has never done anything since leaving school. Since a junior has been told by all and sundry that he is going to be a superstar. Underachieved at Aussie Schoolboys and again at Aus 20s. Needs 3 years in club reserve grade to learn his trade.
• Schatsz is yesterdays man
• Browning tries hard but has never lived up to his 3 years in Aus Schoolboys and A20s captaincy.

Scrumhalf is tricky.

• Frisby is talented, tough and mercurial but after the last few years of playing Genia's deputy, and then filling in at 10 (!) he has yet to find his own identity.
• Gale was chucked in the deep end initially and has been in and out since (injuries?) but is desperately unproven at any senior level too

Flyhalf is a mess. This is the most specialist of positions on the team; the Quarterback. Game management skills are essential and need to be honed over many seasons and in many situations.

• McIntyre is average. Not sure if he could have been in the top two U20 flyhalves in the country in 2014 but the selectors thought so and it seems thats good enough at the Reds
• Paia'aua is not a 10
• Mack Mason is a child. Whoever thought they were doing him a favour by putting him on vs the Crusaders should be reported for child abuse.
• Greene is the best option of the current bunch. Enough x-factor and enough resourcefulness to EVENTUALLY make a good 10 but at his age with his experience he deserves more time.
• The Reds need a seasoned experienced flyhalf at the helm to guide this inexperienced backline and drive the teams strategy. Maybe get Brock James home from France, or Matt Brandon or Hamish Angus. A wiser investment then Goromaru.

Centres also not great.

• Kerevi a great ball runner but needs a good 10 to direct him.
• Paia'aua like so many others in this squad needs time...much more time
• Kuridrani, CFS, Taefu, etc need to think and look like they are thinking. So many dumb reflexive actions.
• Magnay same as Lolo...thrown in the deep end by some sycophant and failed to swim. Needs to go back to the wading pool to learn how, and practice practice practice.

Back Three

• Nabuli is an unknown and Laloifi unproven. Both probably match-winners on the end of a good backline behind a good pack
• Hunt is currently our best player who has shown that he has what it takes. Sadly needs time for everyone to forget his indiscretions ( including himself I fear) and lead this team.
• Goromaru. What's he doing here? Unless he can play 10 or they have other plans for Hunt, there may have been better ways to spend the money. As a marketing tool hes good for Japanese rugby.

So.....what is it with QLD rugby?

• We always let our best players go...a long litany over the years culminating with Cooper and now Gill has had enough and you cant tell me he would be going if he was happy and fulfilled.
• We keep throwing a bunch of overrated juniors in and teaching them to lose. Remember Jonah Placid?

I'm not a fan of "Trial by Social Media" but they better start listening or they wont have a fan (or a decent player) left.

 

[USARugger]

Seems a bit rough on Lolo. I haven't seen much of the trials or followed much of him growing up over the years but he really impressed me in his very limited stints on the pitch last year - looked anything other than a total greenhorn/caught in the headlights.

 

[Gnostic]

10 and 12 not the problem? 1 lucky try in two games! No game management, no Plan B, no midfield presence, brains or communication.
This is the crux of the problem..except the coach

The Brumbies tries in this game came from a well organised attack which knew what they were doing. yes their 10 and 12 are very experienced, but at the same time the Brumbies work off the ball was very good providing options in attack and in securing their own ruck ball at the pace they wanted. The Reds on the other hand were very good on first phase and sometimes second phase. Past that there was no organisation and they dropped the ball well behind the gain line, got turned over in the ruck or kicked it away because they had no further options.

The lack of structures in attack past 2nd phase is not due to the 10 & 12. You could resurrect Lynagh and Horan in their pomp and it would make little difference when they have nothing around them in support or options.

 

[Luvmyrugby]

The Brumbies tries in this game came from a well organised attack which knew what they were doing. yes their 10 and 12 are very experienced, but at the same time the Brumbies work off the ball was very good providing options in attack and in securing their own ruck ball at the pace they wanted. The Reds on the other hand were very good on first phase and sometimes second phase. Past that there was no organisation and they dropped the ball well behind the gain line, got turned over in the ruck or kicked it away because they had no further options.



The lack of structures in attack past 2nd phase is not due to the 10 & 12. You could resurrect Lynagh and Horan in their pomp and it would make little difference when they have nothing around them in support or options.

you're right up to a point
a good general organises his players around him to provide those options

 

[dru]

I think any discussion around tactics and game plans needs to be prefaced by personnel.

Quite the contrary. Any discussion about personnel selection needs to be prefaced by intended tactics and game plan. Now we have some marketing hype around that. But imo the selections dont match the talk.

I'm going to take a closer look at Lolo. Goro isnt the issue. What we are doing with Hunt quite possibly is.

Anyway, enough with the super-charged emotion tonight. However we prevail, it will need cool heads.

 

[Luvmyrugby]

Seems a bit rough on Lolo. I haven't seen much of the trials or followed much of him growing up over the years but he really impressed me in his very limited stints on the pitch last year - looked anything other than a total greenhorn/caught in the headlights.

not meant to be tough on Lolo but on the "system"

Ive seen most of his games since coming down from Emerald for the U16 State Champs. Devastating there and effective when catapulted into BBC 1sts. Better not talk about what happened there but found himself at St.Pats and was also obviously good. Straight into Q Schools and Aust Schools and Aus 20s and then Reds.
This is not a pathway for a Blindside flanker. He's played a handful of club games since finishing school, and even fewer Colts. He's never been belted by an old ex-first grader and told "welcome to Grade, son". I doubt he's ever had to polish the captain's boots or empty the drip tray behind the bar while the senior players have a few drinks. He's probably never even trained in the rain.
I mentioned Jonah Placid. Same with him. Came from Rocky on a scholarship to TGS. The greatest thing since Kurtley Beale. Straight into A Schools, A 20s and Reds, all of whom couldn't win a game. He made his debut when against the Force when The Reds held a slim lead with 10 to go and defending their own line, RG threw him on at Centre leaving Anthony Faa'inga on the bench! The ball went wide and he rushed up out of the line leaving a gap like Sydney Heads for the force to score through and win and it wasn't his fault and it wasn't fair.
He shouldn't have been there.
That's my point...
Its more pronounced in Rugby League. The NYC U20s produces on average 4 players from each club who go through to play NRL. They're too young, too immature and too inexperienced to cut it. Without the pathway that Under 23s and Reserve grade etc used to provide, the majority who develop physically and mentally a bit later have nowhere to go.

the old adage "if you're good enough you're old enough" doesn't hold anymore

 

[TOCC]

blame the coach for selecting players who aren't ready, the coach is the person who makes the call, the coach makes the assessment whether these kids are up to the task physically or mentally. Placid was too young when he debut'd, but he wasn't the first and he won't be the last.. It's happened at every club, and has obviously been more prevalent at the Reds in recent history, the prefix to that is its easy for a young guy to step up into the team when they are a successful team, no young player is going to be able to individually change the fortunes of the whole Reds team.

Its the nature of Australian Rugby when we have blokes like Gill, who is considered a veteran at only 23yrs old heading off overseas. Younger guys are been forced to step up into role before they are ready.

 

[neilc]

blame the coach for selecting players who aren't ready, the coach is the person who makes the call, the coach makes the assessment whether these kids are up to the task physically or mentally. Placid was too young when he debut'd, but he wasn't the first and he won't be the last.. It's happened at every club, and has obviously been more prevalent at the Reds in recent history, the prefix to that is its easy for a young guy to step up into the team when they are a successful team, no young player is going to be able to individually change the fortunes of the whole Reds team.

Its the nature of Australian Rugby when we have blokes like Gill, who is considered a veteran at only 23yrs old heading off overseas. Younger guys are been forced to step up into role before they are ready.

This is where the NRC should start to have an impact. In NZ with the ITM Cup and I believe in SA with the Currie Cup, young players get a chance to be blooded in big games before they are exposed to Super Rugby. Aaron Cruden for instance debuted for Manawatu at 19, went on to play in the U20 World Cup then Super Rugby with the Hurricanes at 21. Maybe he is a special case, but there are quite a number of others who have done well playing Super Rugby before they were 21, while many others have learnt their trade in the ITM Cup for several years before being promoted to Super Rugby. Taking schoolboy whizkids and throwing them into full on pro environments is a challenge, some of them are still developing physically and of course some are used to being dominant at schoolboy level and need to face some harsh realities on and off the field. I hope that as the NRC matures it will be a good grounding for players to learn what it takes and to see who can make that step up.

 

[Intruder]

You need to make players earn there stripes it's simple.

Australian rugby have too many 'made' footballers compared to the other Super rugby franchises. Players are being thrown in after high school without playing a quality amount of third tier rugby and learning their trade before they are ready for super rugby.

A perfect example is Scott Fardy.

Neglected by every franchise in Australia after winning the Shute Shield player of the year two seasons in a row. Shipped off to Japan, returned to the game later on in his career and has been a revelation. Compare him to Curtis Browning.

It all comes down to the coach and how they reward the next bunch of youngsters through the System. Think about this, how many quality debutants has Michael Chieka been able blood with his time at the Waratahs compared to Richard Graham in two seasons of Super Rugby.

You can't just hand out caps, they must be earnt!

 

[Scrubber2050]

It seems to me that the Reds have a very competitive pack. Hopefully the set piece will hold dominance as last year.

The 2016 backs are a worry - no different to last year. Full of promise blah blah. Opposition teams will target our weakness

 

[dru]

@Luvmyrugby

I may have come over excessively combative. But I'm loving your input.

 

[HJ Nelson]

Photos here -
https://www.flickr.com/photos/100900132@N02/albums/72157662270617043

 

[Gnostic]

Quite the contrary. Any discussion about personnel selection needs to be prefaced by intended tactics and game plan. Now we have some marketing hype around that. But imo the selections dont match the talk.

I'm going to take a closer look at Lolo. Goro isnt the issue. What we are doing with Hunt quite possibly is.

Anyway, enough with the super-charged emotion tonight. However we prevail, it will need cool heads.

This is what I am aiming for. For example Foley and other Force officials and players were talking about playing a more expansive game plan this year and not Foley's traditional risk free game. But then we see Grant signed as a 10. Now looking at the roster it would be safe to assume he is their starting 10, so where does that leave the "expansive" game that had been talked about? All players have strengths and weaknesses and they can certainly improve in areas over time but certain characteristics and fundamentals will remain. So the play is a combination of the strengths of the players AND the tactics and training they are given.

IMO I don't think we are seeing much in the way of the strengths and weakness of the players from the Reds simply because the structures they don't have are allowing anything of the players to come through, the depth on attack is putting them under so much pressure they barely make the gainline on first phase (unless it is an individual skill break) let alone second or third phase when it invariably breaks down due to pressure, or just no structure to support the ball carrier.