Point me in the direction of the S15 struture?

[chief]

Have looked all over the web, and I can't find a document saying of how the Super 15 will work from next year. I know of the basics such as it's in pools with both teams playing each other twice (home and away) but, what about the finals placement, and what foreign teams they will be playing.

Thanks.

 

[RugbyReg]

The Super Rugby competition will stretch from the last weekend in February to the first weekend of August as part of a new-look tournament agreed by the SANZAR partners.

The revamped tournament will feature an extra team as well as an expanded finals series as part of changes to be proposed by the SANZAR partners to broadcasters next month.

The new 24-week Super Rugby competition guarantees each team a minimum of eight home matches and a 16-match regular season. A new six team finals series includes an extra round with two "sudden-death" qualifiers before the semifinals.

All teams will have a three-week bye while the tournament is suspended during the June International Test window, while the TriNations series has also been given a new time slot in the calendar to run at the conclusion of Super Rugby.
The expanded competition has a 2011 launch date, with the current broadcast agreement to expire at the end of 2010.

"It has been an intense negotiation but we believe the outcome is a very good one for rugby, for the SANZAR alliance, for our players and fans and for broadcasters," said Andy Marinos, the CEO of SANZAR.


"We were all committed to an expanded tournament and have been able to make it work, taking into account the different landscapes of our domestic game. What we have agreed upon is a competition with added domestic interest and a compelling international component that will see Super Rugby retain its status as rugby's toughest provincial competition."

Key features of the proposed new SANZAR landscape are:
- A 15th team playing in the Australian conference will be added to Super Rugby following a tender process open to all territories, and with SANZAR making the decision on the new side's location. A timetable for tenders will be released shortly to ensure adequate lead-in time is provided to the successful bidder;

- The Tournament will kick off in the last week of February and conclude in the first week of August, except in 2011 when the calendar will be shifted earlier to accommodate Rugby World Cup;

- Teams will be divided into three national Conferences of five teams each. The new team will compete in the Australian Conference;

- Teams play the other four teams in their Conference twice (home and away);

- Teams play four out of the five teams from the other two Conferences (four home, four away)

- All teams will have a three-week bye during the June Test window;

- The three Conference winners and three wildcard teams with the highest number of competition points from any Conference qualify for the play-offs;

-The wildcard teams and the Conference winner with the least competition points will play an elimination round to meet the two Conference winners with the greatest number of competition points in the semifinals

- The TriNations will always kick-off in South Africa in mid-August and conclude with two of the three trans-Tasman matches in early October to allow for early release of Springboks to Currie Cup. This will allow for TriNations tests between particular teams in particular countries to become permanent fixtures on the rugby calendar.


Australian Rugby Union Managing Director and CEO John O'Neill said: "This new structure will enable us to further embed Super Rugby as the premier provincial competition in world rugby.

"The extended season, the home and away local derbies and a new-look finals series – we are building on what has already been an enormously successful Rugby tournament.

"This is an important and necessary evolution for Super Rugby and the fans, I'm sure, will embrace the changes we have made.
"From an Australian perspective, having a presence in the marketplace from February to August delivers us the capacity to compete with the other codes from a stronger and more compelling position.

"Australia is the only country in the world where four football codes compete head to head.

"Expanding the Super Rugby season presents us with a wonderful opportunity to further increase the profile and popularity of our game – and in the long term that will benefit SANZAR and the game worldwide."

NZRU CEO Steve Tew said the agreement was a welcome one for rugby in New Zealand given the value that New Zealand's fans, players, partners and media place on the strength of the southern hemisphere competitions and the contribution that makes to maintaining the competitive edge for rugby below the equator.
"We have said at every juncture that our preference was to maintain the three-country alliance and to build on it. We are delighted that we have reached an agreement which allows us to move the Super Rugby competition to a new platform which we believe will capture and excite rugby fans in all three countries.

"It will also create benefits for our players and Super Rugby franchises and give us a certain competition structure we can build on in future years and a protected window for our domestic competitions."

The SANZAR partners will present the proposed structure to the rights-holding News Corporation by the end of June.

Any new deal only comes into force from the 2011 season.

Fact Box - What the changes mean Super Rugby from 2011

Number of teams 14 - New format increases it to - 15

Regular season matches per team 13 - New format increases it to - 16

Regular season home matches per team 6 or 7 - New format increases it to - 8

Regular season away matches per team 6 or 7- New format increases it to - 8

Total number of regular season matches 91 - New format increases it to - 120

Regular season matches played in each country
NZ/SA - 32 or 33
Aus - 26
- New format increases it to -
NZ/SA - 40
Aus - 40 x

Play-offs format 4 teams over two weeks - - New format increases it to - - 6 teams over three weeks

Number of play-off matches 3 - New format increases it to - 5

Number of play-off matches guaranteed per country None - New format increases it to - 1

Byes per team 1 - New format increases it to - RWC year - 2 Standard year - 5
Total competition length (weeks) 16 RWC year - 21 Standard year - 24
Start date 13 February (2009)
New format
RWC year - 19 February
Standard year - 25 February
End date 30 May (2009)
RWC year - 9 July
Standard year - 4 August

 

[PaarlBok]

The new 24-week Super Rugby competition guarantees each team a minimum of eight home matches and a 16-match regular season. A new six team finals series includes an extra round with two "sudden-death" qualifiers before the semifinals.

- Teams will be divided into three national Conferences of five teams each. The new team will compete in the Australian Conference;

- Teams play the other four teams in their Conference twice (home and away);

- Teams play four out of the five teams from the other two Conferences (four home, four away)

- The three Conference winners and three wildcard teams with the highest number of competition points from any Conference qualify for the play-offs;

-The wildcard teams and the Conference winner with the least competition points will play an elimination round to meet the two Conference winners with the greatest number of competition points in the semifinals

Bliksem now that I see it on paper I cant believe Marinos and specially the NZ teams have agreed in this pile of future S15 shite. :angryfire:

Meaning a team wont play against all the others like now and that three wild card qualifiers is just as kak.

 

[James Buchanan]

Bliksem now that I see it on paper I cant believe Marinos and specially the NZ teams have agreed in this pile of future S15 shite. :angryfire:

Meaning a team wont play against all the others like now and that three wild card qualifiers is just as kak.

PB, JON was proposing that the teams all play each of the home sides in a round of local derbies AS WELL as what we have at the moment. That had to be abridged because South Africa wanted to play the Currie Cup.

Further, I believe that the Wild Card system was favoured by the SA and NZ unions as it ensured that if say the (overall) top 6 was say Bulls, Stormers, Blues, Chiefs, Crusaders, Brumbies then the Aussies wouldn't get 2 spots in the finals (and lets be fair, its most unlikely that Australia will be able to put in 3 teams and most likely that they will be the conference to only get in 1). Further, it guaranteed that there would be at least 1 team from each conference in the finals, which I believe was a demand of SARU, although I think their demand was always at least 1 SA team in the finals.

 

[PaarlBok]

Further, I believe that the Wild Card system was favoured by the SA and NZ unions as it ensured that if say the (overall) top 6 was say Bulls, Stormers, Blues, Chiefs, Crusaders, Brumbies then the Aussies wouldn't get 2 spots in the finals (and lets be fair, its most unlikely that Australia will be able to put in 3 teams and most likely that they will be the conference to only get in 1). Further, it guaranteed that there would be at least 1 team from each conference in the finals, which I believe was a demand of SARU, although I think their demand was always at least 1 SA team in the finals.

Well if NZ & SA thought that they are pretty stupid (NZ the top one because they provide the strongest teams). They just have to see which teams plays who to understand it.

 

[Viking]

So whos in favour of this new structure? Im definitely not! I hate the fact that you dont play every team in the competition at least once! why didnt they just extend in 2 more weeks so it could happen.

I would actually prefer they just kept the same structure where every team plays each other once. If they wanted more local derbies just make a Australia cup trophy comp that is completed b4 the super 15 begins (no-need for play-off rounds just simply a league, play each team once or twice whoever has the most points wins the cup). NZ, SA can do the same. This would actually allow teams to do a bit more experiements with the players, and give players time to hit peak form so in round 1 of the super 15 teams come out firing!

 

[James Buchanan]

So whos in favour of this new structure? Im definitely not! I hate the fact that you dont play every team in the competition at least once! why didnt they just extend in 2 more weeks so it could happen.

Currie Cup

I would actually prefer they just kept the same structure where every team plays each other once. If they wanted more local derbies just make a Australia cup trophy comp that is completed b4 the super 15 begins (no-need for play-off rounds just simply a league, play each team once or twice whoever has the most points wins the cup). NZ, SA can do the same. This would actually allow teams to do a bit more experiements with the players, and give players time to hit peak form so in round 1 of the super 15 teams come out firing!

It's an issue of pragmatism. That trophy wouldn't sell to the networks for as much money and thus, isn't worth as much to the administrators rather than this setup.

 

[Jets]

I don't have to many issues with the structure. More rugby to watch is always a good thing. You would hate to miss out on the finals on for and against if the team you missed out on playing that year was the Lions and the team ahead of you missed the Bulls.

 

[James Buchanan]

I don't have to many issues with the structure. More rugby to watch is always a good thing. You would hate to miss out on the finals on for and against if the team you missed out on playing that year was the Lions and the team ahead of you missed the Bulls.

You have two chances to play each side in your own Conference. Win all of those and you're pretty much assured of going through to the finals. Lose a few of those, and you're risking the teams you get in your non-conference games. Which is par for the course.

Also, as the Reds (and Stormers) have proved this year, you can never tell exactly who is going to be a threat or not each year when the draw is announced.

 

[Lee Grant]

JB

Agree with everything you have said on the matter.

We would all like to be able to play every other team in the comp at least once, but as you mentioned: the Currie Cup put the kibosh on that. Incidentally, I don't blame the SAffers: if Oz had something like that I wouldn't want to compromise the integrity of it either.

Things are not always that neat in other football codes either.

In the NRL teams play 10 sides twice and 4 teams once, and although nobody wants their mob to play the Melbourne Storm twice, it seems to work out for them. In the NFL, teams don't play against certain sides from the other conference for years at a time. Even in their own conference the other teams in their division may be inequitably very strong or weak.

As I wrote before: we would all prefer an ARC and 4 Super teams rather than 5 Super teams and no ARC, but we have to take what we can get. The ARC was not financially viable but with the conference system wherein there will be 20 Oz derbies (instead of 6) we can have a defacto Oz Championship financed by SANZAR. Sure, it won't reap the other benefits that an ARC would engender, such as exposing more players to a standard of rugby above the club level, but it's better that nothing.

I wonder if the conference system will test our allegiances to other Oz teams when they are playing foreign teams.

I remember when the Brumbies and the Tahs were both in contention for a Super12 final spot yonks ago about this time of the year, and surely only one could make it. IIRR the Brumbies were playing in NZ and I started going for the Kiwi team, but it only lasted 5 minutes before my Aussie heart took over.

But if there is one guaranteed spot for an Oz team, will that kind of thinking change for us? Or am I wrong about Oz allegiances and most folks outside of NSW go for the foreign team playing against the side from the Big Smoke?

 

[Biffo]

I could never support a foreign team against an Australian team. That would apply even if the Tahs depended on, say, the Highlanders knocking over the Reds in the last game of the preliminaries to make the semis.

 

[Lee Grant]

I'm fairly sure I won't change either, but I wonder about supporters of the other Oz teams since NSW seems to have all the advantages of size and access to players - not that it has been used well.

 

[CanadianRugby]

How will they determine which non-conference teams your team plays.

As Lee mentioned this is more or less what the NFL uses. In the NFL your non-division games are determined by how bad you were last season, so the worst team should have the easiet fixtures (which isn't always true). Would the Super15 try something like that, or just have a set rotation every year?

I can go either way on this next structure. I'll give it a year, then judge it.

 

[Lee Grant]

How will they determine which non-conference teams your team plays.

I can't remember reading anything that explains it. The NRL have a formula for matching teams based on last year's form but I don't know what it is, and it is probably not relevant to Super rugby anyway because there is the extra wrinkle of fitting tours into the equation.

One thing I haven't picked up on until Noddy posted the stuff above is the byes. Next year there will be a 2nd bye week for all teams, fair enough. But next year is a RWC year. In other years there will be a 3 week lay off when the inbound test tours are on, plus the 2 byes. If the overseas teams come in June, as usual, the regular Super15 season won't be over when they arrive.

In the 2011 RWC year the Super15 will be finished by 9 July, with no lay off. I assume that there will be no inbound tests next year, just 3N games because it's too late to get Euro teams here and all the 3N teams will want 3N to be over ASAP anyway.

Having a lay off whilst test matches are on will seem weird to we SH people but it is standard in Europe. Their Heineken Cup is played in instalments but is still a brilliant competition. We will get used to it soon enough.

 

[chief]

June tests will be made up by Pre RWC matches over here and in NZ, JON says Canada and Japan are most likely to want to play, and has welcomed other teams to play test matches over here.

 

[stoff]

How will they determine which non-conference teams your team plays.

I read an article somewhere the other day (can't remember where), that they are likely to base it alphabetically for the first year, and then rotate it from there on in. It would list the teams alphabetically by there popular names (ie Reds, not Queensand) for each conference. Then you wouldn't play the team who was listed next to you.

Example:
Australia:
1. Brumbies
2. Force
3. Rebels
4. Reds
5. Waratahs
New Zealand:
1. Blues
2. Chiefs
3. Crusaders
4. Highlanders
5. Hurricanes
South Africa:
1. Bulls
2. Cheetahs
3. Lions
4. Sharks
5. Stormers

So the Brumbies wouldnt play the Blues or Bulls, Force not play Chiefs or Cheetahs, and so on. It seems as fair as any other method to decide it, especially as teams get stronger and weaker over the years, the draw will already be pre-determined.

 

[RugbyReg]

Reds need to change their name to the Breds so they miss the Blues and Bulls.

 

[Lindommer]

How will they determine which non-conference teams your team plays.

Alphabetically it seems. There's been a rumour each conference will be listed from A to Z (Bulls to Stormers, Blues to Hurricanes and Brumbies to Western Force) and a method will be devised to go down the list. The Bull, Blues and Brumbies won't play each other first year, down to the Stormers, Hurricanes and Western Force. The non-playing thing will go down the list as the years progress.

The franchises have been asked for input into next year's draw, the Tahs have asked for no Friday night games (they reckon city traffic costs them about 5,000 spectators per match) and at least one Sunday afternoon fixture. How about a few more on Sundays?

 

[Lee Grant]

I wouldn't mind one or two Sunday games a year - and they should have some pricing that encourages families to attend.

stoff and Lindommer
Thanks for the info on the alphabetical situation. I missed that completely. So the Tahs don't get to play the Hurricanes and Stormers - that's not bad for them in a typical year. And the Rebels will dodge the Crusader bullet, though also miss the Lions, who have been easy meat since the Cats disbanded - (and not that strong when they existed anyway).

I hope they change that in Year 2 and afterwards to help the weaker teams from the year before. Thus the lowest team of Group 1 should be able to avoid the strongest team of Group 2 and the 2nd strongest of Group 3 the following year - and so on - and the strongest in Group 1 miss the weakest in Group 2 and second weakest in Group 3 the following year - and so on.

Something like that should work, though in fairness, you would never want a SAffer team to increase their time away from the RSA to accommodate that. We fans in Oz and NZ under estimate the travel disadvantage they suffer. Ignoring visiting Perth, Anzac teams can visit other Anzac teams as though they are in their own country, and sometimes they get their Perth trip as part of their RSA tour anyway to avoid a long shuttle.

 

[PaarlBok]

Something like that should work, though in fairness, you would never want a SAffer team to increase their time away from the RSA to accommodate that. We fans in Oz and NZ under estimate the travel disadvantage they suffer. Ignoring visiting Perth, Anzac teams can visit other Anzac teams as though they are in their own country, and sometimes they get their Perth trip as part of their RSA tour anyway to avoid a long shuttle.

Now please Oom Lee explain this to JJJ (who moan about the Bulls schedule) and my keffertjie Biff, they dont get it.

Like I qouted I dont like this new format one bit, want to play every team each year and I hope they will change super rugby like it is today. The current competition is the closest thing to test rugby and not only us but SH is going to suffer because they degrade the competition.