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Playing two 15s in the starting XV

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USARugger

USARugger

John Thornett (49)
Gnostic said:
Not really USAR - a couple of years ago AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) took an intercept on the 22 and was run down by Robbie Fruen who had to turn and chase. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was caught before halfway. I know Fruen is fast but when a player has to turn and chase if you have even good speed you should be able to make 10 metres on him before he gets up and going. It highlighted to the top end pace that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) doesn't have. Off the mark yes, outright pace - no.
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His acceleration that he uses dozens of times a match is far > his top end speed he gets to use 2-3 times a year.

You're also citing one example in a sport where players regularly carry minor knee/ankle/hamstring/etc which could have a huge impact on top end speed. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) may not be the fastest guy on the pitch but comparing his speed to Mike Harris is just madness.
 
Athilnaur

Athilnaur

Arch Winning (36)
If there is one thing the Rebels demonstrated last year, it was that an accurate big boot fullback is a punishing player who crushes opposition morale. I think Mogg will get picked.

I can envisage Deans putting Folau, Mogg and CL on, but only if neither Cooper or Beale are selected. The best part of all this choice this year is that the team we play will be a very very different proposition for the BILs from that faced by any of them last year. That assumes Deans pushes a game with more width and speed. I think he will, but people can be forgiven for swearing he won't!

And much as I'd love a second fullback who could kick, being good under the highball is crucial. Cast your mind back to bled2 2011 and a certain all black winger who kept coughing the ball up.

So I think on current performance Mogg and Folau will both run on, but who plays 10 will decide it, and Beale is a possibility to relegate one of them. If no Cooper, JOC (James O'Connor) to ten, Folau plays. If Quade to 10, JOC (James O'Connor) to wing opp Ioane. If Quade and Beale play I just can't see them both running on, I would suggest Folau as an impact player, good reserve too as I think he could fill in at centres at a push.
 
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Train Without a Station

Guest
Athilnaur said:
If there is one thing the Rebels demonstrated last year, it was that an accurate big boot fullback is a punishing player who crushes opposition morale.
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Yeah mate, "Rebels" and "opposition morale crushed" are words I would totally put together in a sentence/
 
Athilnaur

Athilnaur

Arch Winning (36)
Yes, bit guilty of hyperbole there but the point stands I think, Gerrards boot made a huge difference.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
I agree Gerrad's long kicking game was excellent. Defence was pretty good too. Just lacked flat out gas. Ideally would have liked to have seen him play more under Deans though, even on the wing.
 
Try-ranosaurus Rex

Try-ranosaurus Rex

Darby Loudon (17)
I agree Gerrad's long kicking game was excellent. Defence was pretty good too. Just lacked flat out gas. Ideally would have liked to have seen him play more under Deans though, even on the wing.
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Gerrard was too slow in the latter part of his career ever to be considered a test fullback let alone a wing. You admit that yourself!
 
Gnostic

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
USARugger said:
His acceleration that he uses dozens of times a match is far > his top end speed he gets to use 2-3 times a year.

You're also citing one example in a sport where players regularly carry minor knee/ankle/hamstring/etc which could have a huge impact on top end speed. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) may not be the fastest guy on the pitch but comparing his speed to Mike Harris is just madness.
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USAR - my point is that he doesn't have the top end speed to play wing or 15. He doesn't fulfil the basic skill set I proposed to qualify. As for camporing his speed to Harris, I think you will find they are about par.
 
Richo

Richo

John Thornett (49)
Gnostic said:
I always thought that was a game to exclude people from selection from the RWC rather than looking for people to include.
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Yes, it may be so. I had wanted Gerrard selected for the RWC. He would have been a great option in the Ireland game, for instance. I'd have taken him over Beale in that one.
 
Groucho

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
Gnostic said:
Not really USAR - a couple of years ago AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) took an intercept on the 22 and was run down by Robbie Fruen who had to turn and chase. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was caught before halfway. I know Fruen is fast but when a player has to turn and chase if you have even good speed you should be able to make 10 metres on him before he gets up and going. It highlighted to the top end pace that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) doesn't have. Off the mark yes, outright pace - no.
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That's not true. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was caught just short of scoring after a long chase. Freuen definitely had better sprint endurance.
 
USARugger

USARugger

John Thornett (49)
Gnostic said:
USAR - my point is that he doesn't have the top end speed to play wing or 15. He doesn't fulfil the basic skill set I proposed to qualify. As for camporing his speed to Harris, I think you will find they are about par.
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I guess we've found some common ground here as I firmly believe playing AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) anywhere but 13 is daft. He's still much faster than Harris though. Seriously, Harris is one of the slowest backs in all of Super Rugby.
 
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TOCC

Guest
Richo said:
Gerrard got unlucky in that his one Wallabies appearance in 2011 was that Samoa game. Not many who got a look then received another one.
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To be fair, that was effectively his second coming at test level, his speed or lack thereof was an issue before he even went to Japan, in his first shot at Wallaby level i remember watching him getting run down quite a number of times and tries went missing, any other outside back in Australia at the time would have had the pace to finish them off.
 
Richo

Richo

John Thornett (49)
TOCC said:
To be fair, that was effectively his second coming at test level, his speed or lack thereof was an issue before he even went to Japan, in his first shot at Wallaby level i remember watching him getting run down quite a number of times and tries went missing, any other outside back in Australia at the time would have had the pace to finish them off.
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Absolutely. My point was that he'd have been a good insurance policy in NZ but was among many who didn't make it past that Samoa game. No question there were good reasons for that, just that I'm sure it didn't help his case.
 
Rassie

Rassie

Trevor Allan (34)
Its nothing to have wings who are good under the high ball. The real problem is for attacking team to create the space to kick into. If the back three can set themselves back and just catch the kick then the tactical kicking game is not going to work for you. To create that space behind the wings you need a good tactical kicker at 9. Morne Steyn had all that space to kick into because of Fourie Du Preez tactical kicking ability. He could kick to the wings with pin point accuracy. That is what created that space. That threat made the wingers stay wide rather than dropping back.
 
Ash

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
TOCC said:
To be fair, that was effectively his second coming at test level, his speed or lack thereof was an issue before he even went to Japan, in his first shot at Wallaby level i remember watching him getting run down quite a number of times and tries went missing, any other outside back in Australia at the time would have had the pace to finish them off.
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I would have had Gerrard at fullback instead of wing, where his pace would be a little less of an issue. Gerrard was not the right person to be on the flank at the end of a move, without a doubt (unless you needed someone to trample an outside back 1m from the line).

Was it Gerrard who was run down by a second rower on the way to the tryline? (Or was that Caleb Ralph.....damn my memory right now.)
 
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