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Playing rugby in 2009

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Aussie D

Desmond Connor (43)
I am back playing rugby for the Rams this year (go you good things) on the Coast and have even put my hand up to help out on the committee. The coach told me a couple of days ago that I will be the starting prop with the express purpose of destroying the opposition scrum.... which would be okay if I knew what I was doing as in my 3 years playing prop in Sydney we only had 2 scrum training sessions.

Anyone else playing this year and have some good propping advice (think I will be playing loosehead as my propping buddy is an absolute monster of a human and prefers tighthead).
 
T

TOCC

Guest
get a tight bind on the hooker, make sure you are parallel your hooker..

on the engage, move forward to meet the opposition rather the letting them come to you, it puts them off balance and minimises there impact..

try and drop your shoulder down on the opposition prop forcing his head to point towards the ground, it means if he tries to push his just going to collapse


bit hard to explain a lot of the other techniques, but most of my techniques were based on the fact that i was almost always the smallest prop on the ground
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
I'm playing again this year, hope to get a few years running around 4th and 5th grade before I get too old that the body just gives it right up. Went to my first training session last night, and am absolutely hammered now. Hopefully I can get more of a run as flanker this time instead of lock as my fitness increases.

You probably know everything below, but...

No advice on propping here, but I can give you advice from a lock's perspective. Assuming your lock is experienced, then he will already know all of this. Make sure your lock is packing where you like him on the back of your thigh, too high and he'll slip up your ass and you'll be on your own, too low and he'll buckle your knees. Make sure your lock packs to how you like it, as it should be easier for him to adjust. Plus, getting comfortable with how your lock packs makes it a lot easier, and stops the blame game between the lock and prop when things go wrong. Make sure he is packing with a straight back, as when he gets tired it's damn easy to have a light bind on the other lock and just sort of lazily lean into the prop. Running around in lower grades I never found any difference between TH and LH lock, it was more about how the props liked it - some liked me lower, some higher. Used to pack behind a very big 40 year old TH prop who knew all the tricks, and that allowed me to be lazy at times. When packing behind one inexperienced LH prop, I could never get low enough for him as his teqnique got hammered in the first few games.

I also found scrum machines easy to pack against, but the main thing they do is screw up your ears for little gain as the scrum was always so much tighter vs the machine. Where possible, get live scrummaging going, even if it's just the front rows between two grades.
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
Aussie D said:
Anyone else playing this year and have some good propping advice (think I will be playing loosehead as my propping buddy is an absolute monster of a human and prefers tighthead).

NTA is probably best to answer.

You need to get the basics right in terms of body position, straight back, tight binds (this goes for all of the T5).

I personally thought it was all mostly about winning the engagement (i.e. the hit), as that would normally set me up for the rest of the scrum. I was a tall prop (use to alternative between front and second row) so I had to make sure the opposite guy never got under me. Sometimes I would be down very low to the ground during the engage and the hit but the start driving upwards straight away. Note that we didn't have alot of sophisticated scrum tactics though, a few head buts every now and then but mainly we just tried to drive the opposition backwards every scrum.

You don't mention if you are playing THP or LHP or both. You can really attack from LHP (you can also bludge more too). I enjoyed playing THP more but every now and then the opposition LHP and hooker will try and squeeze you, I used to just focus on the LHP as usually he was the one that could do the most damage/humiliation.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
i signed up again a few days ago, hoping to miss pre season fitness training though so wont have a run for a few weeks in order to keep my body in peak propping proportions!

i play hooker and loose head in 4th grade, division 2 in sydney, there is no need to know much except the bind in the lower grades, rotect yourself and concentrate on keeping the scrum up, its very rare you get a side able to push right through you and luckily ive been with one of the best scrums in my division for a few years.

the only advice is to stay straight and get as low as possible and push a little up otherwise you spend the whole game headbutting the ground and second rate locks continuing to push you down long after the ref has blown the whistle.........i cant wait, i actually miss it!
 

Cutter

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
I played no. 8 so I know bugger all about the front row. However, we had some very good coaches helping out (A Blades and T Daly were two) and, while the tight five packed, I would often see what these guys were being told.

Something that I remember in particular is how a small adjustment in foot position would make an enormous difference. They would also talk about short binds, long binds, where to bind etc

We also used do a lot as an 8 to counter screws.

Good luck.
 
F

formeropenside

Guest
stepping into a wheel (generally step right as the pressure is on the THP) was how to counter them as I recall.

Its about working as a unit, to the extent you can given training in lower grades.
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
Well, as a former centre I can give you one piece of advice for free.

Stay the fuck out of my backline. Unless of course I get caught with the ball then if you could rush over straight away that would be terrif.
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
Anyone know the difference in quality between the divisions in subbies?

Just found out that the team I will hopefully be running around for in the lower grades this year got demoted to 2nd div. Keen to particularly know the difference in quality between the lower grades across divisions.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Ash - its all about who turns up on the day (you playing for UNSW?). Some of the lower Division clubs would give the higher divisions a run for their money with the best teams on the park, but in all Divisions, lower Grades aren't always a case of lower grade = lower skill. Its mostly about fun... and trying not to get killed by large Samoans... which is fun when you really think about it...

Aussie D - start with the basics. Most of it you'll work out on the day. That won't stop me spewing shit about the basics though :) The main thing is teamwork.

Work out your binds with the THP and hooker. Typically I like a LHP to bind across their hooker's shoulder blades and, depending on how well-rounded your hooker is, bind under the armpit. Some blokes I've actually hooked my fingers into the button collar of their jersey because they were little chaps (some hookers hate it). The THP should take a bind diagonally down to the hooker's left hip or even on their shorts. The longer bind there stabilises him on engagement. As for the bind of the second rower behind you, I used to prefer the lock reaching through and grabbing the bottom of my jersey, but now I actually prefer him to wrap his arm around my inside leg: if he's hanging onto your jersey it pulls downward on you and if he loses the jersey grip you're stuffed. Work out what works for you though. The flanker on your side can either shoulder in if you're looking for an 8-man drive, or hang off if he's going to harass the flyhalf. Binds should be the same every single time so people can concentrate on what they're doing in comfort (and style!)

Next, make sure that each and every scrum you and the other T5 players have The PlanTM ready. The PlanTM should consist of what you're attempting to do and will be the result of many factors: whose feed it is; where you are on the park; the score; your level of dominance; and how much time is left. I find it easiest to have a few simple calls to bring The PlanTM to life e.g. Black Ball is an 8-man drive, Sink is just holding your place, Romeo is Right wheel while Leo is Left wheel. Scrum calls can be just as important as lineout calls or set moves.

If, for example, you had 5 minutes on the clock, were 3 points behind, and it was either side's feed in their 22, The PlanTM would be: drill the shit out of them, and get the ball at the scrum OR make it of such bad quality they have to hurry it into touch.

If you've got the feed, have a narrow lead, and you're copping a bit of grief at the scrum, then The PlanTM is: get the fucking ball out quickly and get to the next ruck ONLY after the scrum is really over. Otherwise you lose your concentration and get pooched.

As for personal technique: Shoulders back, lock your core muscles (if you still have any - I don't so I fake this bit ;)), straighten the back, big chest sticking out. Also cock your hips backwards like you're the lead homo at Mardi Gras - this gives your second rower something decent to push against and keeps your spine straight. Stay a bit below your hooker's shoulder line because you want to get under the big unit opposite. Feet back under your hips (just inside your shoulders) so you're not in the way of the feed - get your lock to hold you back a bit pre-engagement like a crossbow bolt in its cradle. Big breath in... line up his shoulder as your target area... get your head in position so its like you're looking over a pair of imaginary sunglasses at him... wait for it...

ENGAGE!

Hammer the other bloke like he stole your last ten bucks and let that big breath out explosively - get the rest of your T5 guys to do it in time because it can be quite impressive and actually helps with the strength and timing of your hit (if you've done any martial arts training you'll know what I mean). Most THPs in the lower levels don't go that hard on the engage, so if he's busy being in pain after you hit him, he's your bitch. After the engage, if he's busy squirming, you should be able to readjust your feet depending on The PlanTM. Having your feet just inside your shoulders allows to you drive in at the THP and extend your body fully - SMALL STEPS!!!! If you're on a Sink, then spread your feet apart a bit but not so much you get in the hooker's way.

Most of the time THPs will just try to hang in there on your own feed, so work at getting your head into his solar plexus and as TOCC says - drop your shoulder into the back of his neck to twist him.

Another key thing - if you keep getting collapsed on, bring your outside (left) foot up a bit to stabilise you on the engagement, then shift it back once engaged so you can bring the power on. Don't be afraid to tell the ref if something is unsafe in your opinion. Most whistleblowers have no idea and some are actually grateful for the help. Especially if its apparent you have made mincemeat out of the bloke opposite.

LHP fucking rules - best of luck with that.
 

the gambler

Dave Cowper (27)
Ash said:
Anyone know the difference in quality between the divisions in subbies?

Just found out that the team I will hopefully be running around for in the lower grades this year got demoted to 2nd div. Keen to particularly know the difference in quality between the lower grades across divisions.

Ash, if you want to play rugby you really need to be playing first division. Come play for the team that took UNSWs spot in first division. Good social atmosphere, train only once a week and close to the city so easy to get to, what more could you want. If you play 2nd division you are wasting your time, and your money in petrol.

But seriously there is not a great deal of difference between divisions. Basically in the lower grades as you go up a division you drop a grade in quality. So 3rd grade 2nd division is about the same as 4th grade first division or 2nd grade 3rd division. 2nd grade 2nd division = 3rd grade first division. Hope that makes sense. Not always true, especially in 4th,5th and 6th divisions where it really is as Nick says and depends on who turns up on the day. Also first grades can vary depending on whether teams have recruited ex Tongan/Fijian internations/rugby league players.
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
Geez, Blue Mountains in 2nd Div. That's going to be a hike.

However, I noticed that Cambelltown are in 1st Div now as well.

Yeah, playing for UNSW. Played for them in the lower grades a few years back. Even back then UNSW used to struggle and come in the bottom 4 or so on the championship table - but somehow they'd manage to stay up, so I was surprised to see that they'd dropped a division when I returned this year. Not that I care really (apart from the extra annoyance of a bit more travelling), as it maybe means my older and softer body won't get smashed quite so much. Hoping the ELVs don't make it too hard to survive the 25 minute halves.

One year we had quite a few players from the old UNSW 1st grade side that won a few 1st div premierships return to run around half a season in 4th grade before they quit or were forced to player higher grades - that was a load of fun, playing with them. Last year apparently 5th grade for UNSW was all older players for the club as well, and they made the final - the only team not to come last, second last or third last, apparently.

gambler; you playing for King's Old Boys?
 

the gambler

Dave Cowper (27)
that's the intention but will see how the body holds up. Playing in the orange tens next week so will judge after that.

We have campbelltown on Anzac day this year. Interesting bus trip.
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
I have played one game for UNSW Colts. I scored 2 tries. :yay :-*

Geez you blokes are soft about travelling. Playing for Blackheath we used to drive 6 hours out to Tullamore. Quite a few pubs in-between there and here.
 

the gambler

Dave Cowper (27)
nah I love a bus trip on weekends. My initial comment was about training. But the year we had blacktown, Liverpool, cambotown and Newport meant I got sick of having burnt body hair. :nta:
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Shocking news just in: Subbies 4th Division in Sydney is not going to continue in its current 3-Grade format. The Renegades were looking to be a 4th Div club but with only 5 other clubs up there at the moment, and two of them struggling with numbers, Subbies is going to have a meeting about what to do next. I'd say what will happen is 4th and 5th Divisions merge, with 3rd Grade becoming optional on the day. That presents a problem:

4th Division: Merrylands, Canterbury, Renegades, Macq Uni, St George, Chatswood
5th Division: Oakhill, Harlequins, Lane Cove, Liverpool*, Wollondilly+, Fairvale, Notre Dame

* Down from 4th Div
+ Moved in from Shoalhaven comp

I like it not: if we're trying to grow as a club, how can we get numbers when 3rd Grade players are only guaranteed a run maybe one in every three weeks?

Rumours are circulating that there will be North and South pools with this optional Third Grade and it would probably work out like this:

NORTH: Renegades, Macq Uni, Chatswood, Oakhill, Lane Cove, Merrylands
SOUTH: Canterbury, St George, Harlequins, Liverpool, Wollondilly, Fairvale, Notre Dame

Someone is going to have a bye round (13 teams all up) which always sucks - though I hear Notre Dame are dropping down to 6th....

In our pool it would only be us, Macq Uni, and Merrylands regularly fielding 3 Grades. Chatswood maybe for home games. Canterbury would dominate the Southern pool in terms of championship points but Harlequins First Grade would be a challenge.

Sad times for Suburban rugby...
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
OK, so there are more movements after a meeting of Subbies last night - serious ones:

1) There is no longer a 3 Grade comp in Subbies rugby. 4th Division as it has been in recent years is no more. Its not even an option except for the odd Halligan Cup game I suppose.

2) This means 4th Division is effectively gone for this year. Instead, teams have been moved up or down - Merrylands (2009 4th Div Champions + premiers in all grades + club of the year) got moved up to 3rd Div which they're not happy about, but the proviso is they don't suffer penalties for not having a 4th Grade. They should have been promoted I reckon.

3) 5th Division now becomes a two-grade comp with 12 (or 13) teams. One full round is played then they're proposing to break into north and south pools.

4) Canterbury, who were 4th Div runners-up for the Club Championship as well as minor premiers or runners-up in 4th Div last year have said they're no longer capable of fielding 3 teams anyway, and maybe only 1!!! How the sands shift in amateur rugby eh?

5) So now the divisions are basically split into the haves and have-nots - each of the first three divisions is a 10-club comp with 4+ senior grades and maybe Colts (not all clubs have Colts up there despite some requirements). Each of the lower two divisions (no 4th Div) now has:

5th Div (12): Chatswood, Fairvale, Lane Cove, Liverpool, Macquarie Uni, Notre Dame, Oakhill, Rockdale, RENEGADES, St George, Sydney Harlequins, Wollondilly
6th Div (13): Bankstown, Burraneer, Clovelly, Dee Why, Dundas Valley, Killara West Pymble, Maccabi, Manly Savers, Norwest, Redfield, Roseville, Seafoth-Balgowlah, Terrey Hills

Unknown: Canterbury...

Basically, if you're a lower division club and want to move up, bad luck...
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
The teams in 2nd Div are as they were after promotion/relegation took place. So far as I know, the list can be found at:

http://www.rugby.net.au/extra.asp?OrgID=7&ID=5985

Its not finalised for the lower divisions yet, but 1-3 should be set up. That means:

1st Div will be 5 Grades + Colts
2nd Div will be 4 Grades + Colts
3rd Div will be 4 Grades
4th Div will be NADA
5th Div will be 2 Grades
6th Div will be 1 Grade
 
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