Player Managers - when do players need them

[Iluvmyfooty]

Recently some players just out of school and with some credentials have been contacted by a player agent about signing up. I have some doubts about the need of these players for agents when they are trying to make a name in Colts/Grade.

My questions are:
1. Is this a common occurrence - the contact I mean?
2. What can a player agent do for these players?
3. At what stage is a player agent required?

 

[topo]

Good questions and here's my 20c worth.
1. I think it is reasonably common
2. Not much. Clubs haven't got much to spend and an agent isn't going to boost that income. No one is going to offer endorsement deals to these kids.
3. If you're a Kurtley Beale you need one when you're 16. Most others don't need one until they are established pros. For most players their first contract is a pretty standard one based on the minimum contract negotiated by RUPA. It's unlikely an agent will get them much more, but will still take their percentage. If they go alright during their first contracted period and have a few franchises interested, then it's time to get an agent as it is more likely the agent will earn their money. If the player is interested in playing overseas then an agent is more important as they are likely to have contacts that the player won't have and should also have a better knowledge of the hoops that players need to jump through (work permits etc) to play professionally overseas. Again,they are more likely to earn their money.
4. It seems to me that there are lot of player agents out there trying to sign up as many kids as they can in the hope that a couple of them become good earners for them.

 

[Bruce Ross]

I think topo's advice is quite sound, iluvmyfooty.

The reality is that there are many player managers competing in what is an extremely limited market, so there is a natural tendency for there to be approaches to school leavers and kids still at school in order to preempt the opposition. But does having a manager add value to these young players?

There is very little money available to pay players at the club level in Australia. It is by no means unusual for clubs not to honour their commitments to players and few clubs have the resources to make these payments sustainably. The clubs are basically broke.

There are five professional franchises in Australia. The franchises are basically broke.

Then there is the ARU. The ARU is basically broke.

Player managers are trying to run a business and the key factor in business is cash flow. So there is probably an almost inevitable tendency for the manager to want the horses in his stable to begin paying their way as soon as possible.

My advice to young players and their parents has been to think very carefully before engaging a manager. In general the interests of a gifted player are best served by spending time learning their craft at club level before even thinking of trying to make a living from the sport. topo mentions Kurtley Beale. Here is an extravagantly gifted player who was rushed straight from school into the professional environment. I continue to wonder whether his interests might have been better served by a more patient approach.

 

[Andrew B Cox]

I think a real problem with the player-manager at club level is that to get a greater return, a manager needs to shop his players around. The only way to increase his return is to get more from his charges. Most of the time, this results in moving players to a new club, under a greater contract.

One of the things that drew me to this sport has been loyalty, of sticking with your mates, of building something.

These are not values encouraged by player-managers. To play for less because you are loyal to a certain badge is counter-intuitive to their business model.

 

[Tahboy]

Player managers don't make any money until a player earns a certain amount
Player managers I know don't make a cent till a player earns between 50k and 70k
There are a lot who think they are managers but only a hand ful are earning a living
Managers by Rupa ruling can charge a club for placing a player and most managers only move or recommend players from clubs is to increase there chances of getting picked up by a S15 team
There is no doubt players with agents increase there chances of being noticed as a good manager is pushing his players name and credentials plus he knows what positions franchises are looking to fill but I think a player only needs a manager once he had moved into the club system.

 

[Tahboy]

Sorry meant to say managers can't make any money from clubs in moving players

 

[Rugby Central]

I think topo's advice is quite sound, iluvmyfooty.

The reality is that there are many player managers competing in what is an extremely limited market, so there is a natural tendency for there to be approaches to school leavers and kids still at school in order to preempt the opposition. But does having a manager add value to these young players?

There is very little money available to pay players at the club level in Australia. It is by no means unusual for clubs not to honour their commitments to players and few clubs have the resources to make these payments sustainably. The clubs are basically broke.

There are five professional franchises in Australia. The franchises are basically broke.

Then there is the ARU. The ARU is basically broke.

Player managers are trying to run a business and the key factor in business is cash flow. So there is probably an almost inevitable tendency for the manager to want the horses in his stable to begin paying their way as soon as possible.

My advice to young players and their parents has been to think very carefully before engaging a manager. In general the interests of a gifted player are best served by spending time learning their craft at club level before even thinking of trying to make a living from the sport. topo mentions Kurtley Beale. Here is an extravagantly gifted player who was rushed straight from school into the professional environment. I continue to wonder whether his interests might have been better served by a more patient approach.

Too right on the Kurtley assessment. Players need to learn how to play rugby before they should be paid. You can have the most talented schoolboy team in the country, put them up against most Premier Colt's sides and they will get a lesson or two. Agent's are a blight on the sport and should never be considered until the player is approached with a genuine offer from a franchise.

 

[Jets]

Yeah with RUPA's strong position in the player salary arrangements a manager isn't really required until a player has established themselves with a Super team. Before that players can run contracts by a lawyer or contact RUPA directly and ask them some questions.

 

[What2040]

Yeah with RUPA's strong position in the player salary arrangements a manager isn't really required until a player has established themselves with a Super team. Before that players can run contracts by a lawyer or contact RUPA directly and ask them some questions.

Jets - agree totally - probably need to dump the odd father or two as well - think they do more harm than a reasonable manager, something about objectivity...

 

[I like to watch]

I think the consensus is clear that rookies are not in any need of a manager.
I think where they may add a value add, is when/if the rookie doesn't make it or is cut from a major franchise, managers MAY get them an OS gig.