Paul Marks sacked

[Lee Grant]

I like this process.

Let's forget if the Beale action was good or bad and the non-awarding of a penalty try by Marks was good or bad - or what the other ref did. The main point is that referees were brought to account as soon as the referee bosses thought they deserved it.

Well done. I am starting to warm to Lyndon Bray the current SANZAR ref boss. It probably wasn't just down to him, but it's he that folks would criticise had the ref bosses not taken action if they thought there was a problem.

 

[PaarlBok]

Agree with Lee, time they tell us whats going on. Also glad they sacked the qouta ref. Vok he was piss poor when the Tin Ears played the Clan.

Andre Watson did this in the past with our CC lot and even on TV.

 

[chief]

Maybe it's not that bad, but how about consistency. Mark Lawrence hasn't been sanctioned for his costly interference with a Brumbies player in SA the other week. All the referees who have failed to hand out yellow cards with Penalty Tries have not been sanctioned. Let's get some consistency going

 

[PaarlBok]

Chiefy its a pretty grey area. I dont like cards being dished out that easily , you may like it and you have to look at the wide picture. Marks mistake was the tip of the iceberg, the qouta, well SA have plenty of better refs running around and he should never got to S14 level. Inside SA we understand when a qouta is out there and why but international they'll be shown up.

 

[chief]

Chiefy its a pretty grey area. I dont like cards being dished out that easily , you may like it and you have to look at the wide picture. Marks mistake was the tip of the iceberg, the qouta, well SA have plenty of better refs running around and he should never got to S14 level. Inside SA we understand when a qouta is out there and why but international they'll be shown up.

Disagree about the cards, if a player fails to oblige to the laws constantly or does it preventing a try scoring outcome the player should be yellow carded without hesitation. No matter how long we debate about it, it won't matter. The law book states that a yellow card should accompany a Penalty Try. There was no exclusion.

Disagree with your sentiment about SA referees. You currently have Jonker, Kaplan, Lawrence and Joubert with Peyper. For the reserve bench you have Leogote who was just dropped and Peyper who is doing a decent job, that seems like all you have.

You definitely have better refs than Australia does, as we have Stu Dickinson, Steve Walsh, and that's about it. Do Nathan Pearce and Ian Smith still referee these days? But SA does not have a huge amount of referees ready to take the job on.

 

[Refabit]

Smith is reffing the Reds/Force game on Sunday. A bit of a homecoming as he only moved south to further his refereeing. Walsh is hardly an Aussie! Dickinson is injured. Marks is sacked. The cupboard is bare here.

 

[PaarlBok]

Disagree with your sentiment about SA referees. You currently have Jonker, Kaplan, Lawrence and Joubert with Peyper. For the reserve bench you have Leogote who was just dropped and Peyper who is doing a decent job, that seems like all you have.

You definitely have better refs than Australia does, as we have Stu Dickinson, Steve Walsh, and that's about it. Do Nathan Pearce and Ian Smith still referee these days? But SA does not have a huge amount of referees ready to take the job on.

Here is our ref rankings
National Panel: (Top 11)
(Merit order)

1. Jonathan Kaplan (SARU)
2. Marius Jonker (SARU)
3. Mark Lawrence (SARU)
4. Craig Joubert (SARU)
5. Pro Legoete (SARU)
6. Jaco Peyper (SARU)
7. Jason Jaftha (SARU)
8. Stuart Berry (SARU)
9. Sindile Mayende (SARU)
10. Joey Salmans (SARU)
11. Lourens van der Merwe (SARU)

Provincial Panel: (14)
(Merit order)

1. Ben Crouse (BB)
2. Archie Sehlako (Natal)
3. Mlungiseli Mdashe (Valke)
4. Matt Kemp (Western Province)
5. Tiaan Jonker (Golden Lions)
6. François Veldsman (Boland)
7 Bongani Maloni (Border)
8. Luke Burger (BB)
9. Dilbert November (South Western Districts)
10. Quinton Immelman (Western Province)
11. Pieter De Villiers (Golden Lions)
12. Rasta Rashivenga (Golden Lions)
13. François Groenewald (Western Province)
14. Lusanda Jam (Border)

They all busy at work at the moment. We have our Varsity Cup and Vodacom running.

 

[chief]

Great, does them being busy necessarily mean they are good? Australia could do something like that too, but we won't because, well to be frank the ARU doesn't care about referees.

 

[PaarlBok]

Great, does them being busy necessarily mean they are good?

Trust me there are good ones.

 

[Lee Grant]

PB

You may wonder why Oz referees are so crap, but there is not a lot of mystery about it. It is much the same reason as why we struggle sometimes to have good professional players.

We don't have a large pool of referees or players and the reason for that is because we don't have the competitions that you have. You have amateur club rugby and the Super14 but you also have the Vodacom Cup and Currie Cup levels in between. We don't.

All referees in all countries start refereeing because of a love for the game but your best amateur referees can progress into the VC and CC and learn their trade refereeing good players. The best ones can be assessed there for Super rugby much better than if they were refereeing games in the local parks as our fellows are. In the VC and CC they can see a career path that could take them to the professional level if that's what they want to do.

Our guys have no career path and because there is none don't look for it. Those that want to progress can't prove themselves in a VC or CC. They can get through to the S14 level eventually but it's a lot tougher for them. And when the get to the S14 level they are not as experienced at refereeing above the amateur level as your fellows are when they get there.

Then there's the sheer numbers that you have refereeing above the amateur club level. You are bound to get better refs than us in the S14 on volume alone.

 

[PaarlBok]

I'd say Sanzar and Aus should try and get some of them over here. Give them exposure at all our levels from Craven Week right up to CC. I know Smit and Pearce had a few in our CC. I'd say the CC is a landmine for refs. Think they both made a few mistakes aswell, but nothing stop Sanzar to invest in refs and use all three countries to get the best out of their refs.

 

[PaarlBok]

Lee the other thing I want to mention. our top refs all started at schoolboy level. Schoolboy level in SA is big, big on passion, crowd attendances, high intensity and also TV coverage. The perfect platform to launch a coaching or reffing career. I watch Veldsman (Boland) with hawk eyes. He is a Paarl Gym teacher and getting through the ranks. Think he'll break through to the top in a few years.

 

[Spook]

When will Blocker Lawrence be named and shamed?

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Lee - I've never understood why there aren't more Australian referee's in the NPC in NZ. If the ARU has somebody up and coming, instead of throwing them straight into the S14 on teh back of some club / age / rep games, they should apply for 2 or 3 games in the NPC. Similar to sending into SA for their school tourney's or CC.

In my opinion, there is no place for nationalism when it comes to referee's.

 

[Blue]

When will Blocker Lawrence be named and shamed?

Apparently they are waiting for nine other refs to admit that they never blew Gregan up for using them as a shield at scrums and breakdowns over the years. According to reports they are trying to track some of these refs down, but fear that one or two may actually ba dead.

So, likely never.

 

[PaarlBok]

In my opinion, there is no place for nationalism when it comes to referee's.

I'll drink a toast on this one tonite.

 

[Spook]

When will Blocker Lawrence be named and shamed?

Apparently they are waiting for nine other refs to admit that they never blew Gregan up for using them as a shield at scrums and breakdowns over the years. According to reports they are trying to track some of these refs down, but fear that one or two may actually ba dead.

So, likely never.

Said like a true saffer.

 

[Ruggo]

When will Blocker Lawrence be named and shamed?

Apparently they are waiting for nine other refs to admit that they never blew Gregan up for using them as a shield at scrums and breakdowns over the years. According to reports they are trying to track some of these refs down, but fear that one or two may actually ba dead.

So, likely never.

Said like a true saffer.

Short memory. was it not only a few weeks ago Dupreez used the ref to score.