Pat Lam Fronts Up Over The Blues

[en_force_er]

Yeah, interesting point qwerty.

Whilst it isn't my opinion I suppose it isn't out of line to suggest diversity (cultural, economic, race, ect) helps all kinds of organisations, if they'd have said it that way it would be completely different though.

 

[qwerty51]

Actually it is Racist. You have just painted every Islander with the same brush based on their race. That's what Racism is!

I would say it's more a stereotyping, everyone knows the value of islanders in a rugby team and what they can bring to a team but there's a belief that they lose a little direction and discipline due to a lack of leadership qualities within. A lot of islanders would even tell you this themselves.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

I heard it from a few Kiwis when I was over there last year. They were referring to guys like Toeava et al. I just politely nodded and changed the subject.

Or you could have asked why they thought/said that & listened to it. I've heard top coaches speak who have said that you need to treat the Island boys a little different when it comes to coaching & getting the best out of them - mainly because of different upbringings, family & respect values etc.

I work for a Japanese company in HK, thus work with lots of Japanese, Chinese & also Australian, French & New Zealand staff. You can't treat them all the same to get the best out of them. It is exactly the same as having a rugby team made up of all the same attributes.

Thus, when I hear people say that, I don't immediately think racism.

 

[ChargerWA]

Good on Piri for at least admitting he stuffed up.

I don't like naturally talented guys who float through relying on talent and watch guys with the hunger but maybe less talent work their ass off and mostly fail to match the talented guys. But nobody said life was fair and I respect Piri for taking it on the chin.

 

[Braveheart81]

I would say it's more a stereotyping, everyone knows the value of islanders in a rugby team and what they can bring to a team but there's a belief that they lose a little direction and discipline due to a lack of leadership qualities within. A lot of islanders would even tell you this themselves.

Let's not have this discussion because it has been done before and is boring, but racial stereotyping is exactly the thing that racists use to justify racism.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Or you could have asked why they thought/said that & listened to it. I've heard top coaches speak who have said that you need to treat the Island boys a little different when it comes to coaching & getting the best out of them - mainly because of different upbringings, family & respect values etc.

I work for a Japanese company in HK, thus work with lots of Japanese, Chinese & also Australian, French & New Zealand staff. You can't treat them all the same to get the best out of them. It is exactly the same as having a rugby team made up of all the same attributes.

Thus, when I hear people say that, I don't immediately think racism.

I tend to try and get a vibe of the place before engaging in deep conversation about a countries culture. It was my first time visiting and I didn't want get into it with the locals without understanding a bit more.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't immediately shut the conversation down, but a couple of things I heard some of the locals say raised my eyebrows just a touch.

I also work and have worked in very cosmopolitan workplaces in Australia and overseas and get what you're saying. Let's just say I tread carefully to begin with.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Yeah, fair enough BH. Suppose you were worried about being spat on anyway....

It's a pet hate of mine when things like this & people perceived judgements on people on their ethnic background, get lumped in with real proper racism issues which are out there, past and present.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

You know what, I have no idea where this issue with Aussie tourists being hassled came from. I was welcomed with open arms by just about every local I met when I was over there. I know you were only joking, but other people weren't.

I totally agree with your second point, BTW.

 

[The Red Baron]

Actually it is Racist. You have just painted every Islander with the same brush based on their race. That's what Racism is!

Racism is a defunct term. Racism is essentially an aesthetic term of differentiation. 'Race' was originally termed by the naturalist Blumenbach, in his work on the aesthetic quality of skulls. A more accurate depiction of the term 'racism' would in fact be 'ethnic discrimination'.

This does not diminish the angle in which the attacks were made. They were made against an ethnic group. Still the same result.

You don't discriminate against someone because their ethnic background is different to yours.

 

[Nusadan]

Looking at the Blues team tonight...there seems to be some lack of discipline within, and if I was Pat Lam, I'd tell Piri to lose five kilos before I'd even consider selecting him in the 22, it would send out the message to the rest of the team to pull up or ship out!

 

[Sully]

Racism is a defunct term. Racism is essentially an aesthetic term of differentiation. 'Race' was originally termed by the naturalist Blumenbach, in his work on the aesthetic quality of skulls. A more accurate depiction of the term 'racism' would in fact be 'ethnic discrimination'.

This does not diminish the angle in which the attacks were made. They were made against an ethnic group. Still the same result.

You don't discriminate against someone because their ethnic background is different to yours.

That's all very well but it doesn't make me feel any better when I'm profiled because of the place my grand parents came from

 

[The Red Baron]

That's all very well but it doesn't make me feel any better when I'm profiled because of the place my grand parents came from

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I was actually agreeing with your point. Just came out wrong. Seeing as racism is more or less disproven, arguments like Qwerty's fall into the discrimination category. Regardless of a persons' cultural background, stereotyping and ethnic discrimination should not be tolerated.

Anyway, enough of my ranting, I don't want to totally hijack this thread with the whole 'race' argument.

 

[Dan54]

I hardly think saying a team is under performing due to too many islanders is racism anyway. An out of line comment but certainly not racist imo. I know there's a lot of people that share that view within league and union circles, not to a specific team but a general view that a team won't function with a majority of islanders.

Same thing happened with Kearney and Eels recently

I agree Gwerty, how many people have said that Wallabies haven't played to their potential because they have a Kiwi coach? It is really what MR has said, perhaps some people respond differently to certain styles of play. I know my father years ago used to say the All Blacks were better with a mercurial Maori at 10, he just thought quite often they played a certain style that gave whole backline a different pattern, I didn't agree or disagree with him, but I pretty sure he wasn't meaning it in a racist term (mind you this is back in 70s). Most people seem to think that bringing together the players from 4 different countries is the biggest problem that B&I Lions teams have, and I think people are saying rightly or wrongly that this could be a bit of same thing.

 

[daz]

Good on Piri for at least admitting he stuffed up.

I don't like naturally talented guys who float through relying on talent and watch guys with the hunger but maybe less talent work their ass off and mostly fail to match the talented guys. But nobody said life was fair and I respect Piri for taking it on the chin.

Hell's bell's...given the topic, there are so many ways to go "boom boom" with this post, Charger! I'm looking at the key words of "Stuffed, Hunger and Chin" and wondering in how many ways I could make a fat joke at Piri's expense.

But I won't, because I post in moderation...oh damn.

 

[ChargerWA]

You toss up a big fat lob ball, and all the batsmen have their back turned.....

 

[Cave Dweller]

Eliota Fuimaono Sapolu, who played for Samoa at the Rugby World Cup, has slammed the racist tirade directed at Auckland Blues coach Pat Lam after a series of poor performances by the team.

Fuimaono-Sapolu, who created a controversy with his tweeting during last year's rugby World Cup in New Zealand, expressed his opinion in his usual contentious manner on Twitter.

"F**k NZ Rugby. We polynesians have made the All Blacks the best in the world for decades! F**k it now! Represent your Island countries!" Stuff.co.nz quoted Fuimaono-Sapolu's tweet, as saying.

It was delivered overnight as the story made headlines in Britain after Lam voiced his sadness at the slant taken against him.

Fuimaono-Sapolu had earlier tweeted: "Not a fan of Pat Lam but reading racist taunts he and polynesian players receiving from NZ is not only f**king disgusting, its not surprising."


He later clarified his stance, and said: "I should have worded it better. I meant the racists in NZ. Not NZ as a whole."

Lam had twice cried in front of a large media session in Auckland yesterday when he described the pain the racist remarks on social media, and talkback radio had brought to his family, particularly his parents. (ANI)

http://news.webindia123.com/news/articles/Sports/20120412/1963737.html

 

[Ruggo]

This has all become way off the real topic which is why are the Blues underperforming? The Blues have been in strife since 2003 when they last won the title under Henry. That says the franchise has a culture problem and not the fault of one man. Other sides have this issue and other side have overcome this issue in the past.

I feel for Pat Lam as he is a great amassador for rugby. Look at the articles Bullrush has posted in the past as an example. As for his coaching abillity, we can all pass judgement but unless we are privy to inside knowledge what are they worth?

I don't want to get involved in all the racism talk.

 

[Cave Dweller]

This has all become way off the real topic which is why are the Blues underperforming? The Blues have been in strife since 2003 when they last won the title under Henry. That says the franchise has a culture problem and not the fault of one man. Other sides have this issue and other side have overcome this issue in the past.

I feel for Pat Lam as he is a great amassador for rugby. Look at the articles Bullrush has posted in the past as an example. As for his coaching abillity, we can all pass judgement but unless we are privy to inside knowledge what are they worth?

I don't want to get involved in all the racism talk.

Trouble in the camp?

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Spoke to somebody over the weekend, who would be in the know & he confirmed what a few of us had suspected.

The team is divided into two distinct camps - in directly it's polynesian vs the rest, but in reality it's religous vs the rest. They just aren't gelling & Lam is doing his best, but it's simply not working.

Ted is the king of mastering this divide, as he has proven over the years. Come back Ted, the blues need you!

 

[Dan54]

I have heard axactly same thing for a few years now MR, also a feeling perhaps Lam has played the old racism card to get a bit of heat off himself. I would say only that he has a lot of talented players, that are playing extremely dumb rugby, and not performing basic skills like the should, are still getting on field every week, so it would seem to me there needs to be a big change, and if I was in charge of Blues Lam would not be there at season's end!! Whether it his fault or not, if it's not working and you keep doing same thing you get what you deserve!