Part 2: Video Analysis of Breakdown Infringements

[Scott Allen]

Part 2 of my analysis of breakdown infringements in the Tri-Nations from the game between the All Blacks and Wallabies is now availabkle at http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/video-part-2-tri-nations-breakdowns/

I look forward to some spirited discussion but let's keep it civil!

 

[rugbysmartarse]

good effort Austin - this sort of follow through in analysis is what makes this site so worthwhile

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

What? Even handed.. nothing for me to moan about? BORING!!!

Proves what I've been saying all along.. all teams do it.

I obviously differ massively from alot of you though inthat I think Joubert referee'd it fine. He let things go which didn't matter & penalised where it did matter. With the exception of the Sivivatu error close to the goal line. That was a bit of a shocker from the AR.

 

[barbarian]

Haha you disappoint me MR. I saw your name as the last post and as I clicked on the thread I thought "here we go...", but you have given me nothing!

So I will have to start you off myself.

It is good to see our boys watched Scarfy's video and said 'we should have a go at that too'. For too long we played to the letter of the law while other teams (one in particular) rampantly cheated left, right and centre. Yes we won a few games but not enough. Obviously sometime after the release of G&GR's videos the penny has dropped and we are now taking a leaf out of the book of our trans-tasman rivals. Now all we need to do is start beating them...

 

[Jay]

Haha you disappoint me MR. I saw your name as the last post and as I clicked on the thread I thought "here we go...", but you have given me nothing!

So I will have to start you off myself.

It is good to see our boys watched Scarfy's video and said 'we should have a go at that too'. For too long we played to the letter of the law while other teams (one in particular) rampantly cheated left, right and centre. Yes we won a few games but not enough. Obviously sometime after the release of G&GR's videos the penny has dropped and we are now taking a leaf out of the book of our trans-tasman rivals. Now all we need to do is start beating them...

Yes, that's what happened. It's not that no one had bothered to highlight Wallabies breakdown cheating it just so happens that they didn't do it until JUST BEFORE someone decided to check. Sound.

 

[barbarian]

Glad you are with me Jay.

 

[antipodean]

Some minor points.

1. Missed Kepu off side at the ruck. Minor infringement, but if you're going to be pedantic...
2. A matter of opinion whether the ball was still in the ruck, but he was never on side. Fair penalty.
3. Sivivatu didn't knock on. The ball goes backwards towards his own try line. Yes he never got back to his feet, but then Beale never released him once he had played the ball. Still a very bad miss by the assistant ref as you say.
4. No mention of the clear obstruction by Horwill @1:38. Professionally done; just enough to slow the ball a fraction of a second.
5. It's not 'far fetched' to claim Simmons' holding on to Piri Weepu was instrumental in the lead up to the try. Read moves one out off the ruck as he expects Weepu is inside him. As Simmons is holding onto Piri, this gives Genia room to run at Read. Weepu can't tackle Genia while Simmons is holding on to him, nor is he in position to cover for the inside ball to Beale and can't get across.
6. McCaw joins the ruck from the gate @2:15. The Wallaby (prop?) drives around the gate in front of him and then McCaw goes forward and attempts to grab the ball which appears to be off the ground. Joubert may penalise him for playing the ball in the ruck, but it's absurd to suggest he has come in from the side.

It is good to see our boys watched Scarfy's video and said 'we should have a go at that too'. For too long we played to the letter of the law while other teams (one in particular) rampantly cheated left, right and centre. Yes we won a few games but not enough. Obviously sometime after the release of G&GR's videos the penny has dropped and we are now taking a leaf out of the book of our trans-tasman rivals.

Much too obvious.

 

[Scott Allen]

Antipodean

Watch the video again of your point number 6 - what is the signal the referee gives for the penalty? From the side, not playing the ball in the ruck!!

If you watch the replay of the game and turn up your volume you'll hear the referee say "Number 7 entry from the side".

It's not absurd, it's pretty obvious.

 

[FrankLind]

Interesting video. I had trouble understanding the accent of the person narrating it though.

 

[Scott Allen]

Some minor points.

1. Missed Kepu off side at the ruck. Minor infringement, but if you're going to be pedantic...
2. No mention of the clear obstruction by Horwill @1:38. Professionally done; just enough to slow the ball a fraction of a second.

As I said in the article there were plenty of other infringements I didn't count as they were minor - for both sides. Kepu's is one of those.

Horwill was the tackler - he is entitled to get to his feet and participate - he does not have to come back through the gate to get involved. As he starts to bend down to play the ball, Weepu is quite within his rights to stop him partcipating - no infringement by either player - play on.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

It is good to see our boys watched Scarfy's video and said 'we should have a go at that too'. For too long we played to the letter of the law while other teams (one in particular) rampantly cheated left, right and centre. Yes we won a few games but not enough. Obviously sometime after the release of G&GR's videos the penny has dropped and we are now taking a leaf out of the book of our trans-tasman rivals. Now all we need to do is start beating them...

what? how dare you.....

Numbers on the article suggest we bend the rules more than most - which I can happily accept. Seems your lot have some catching up to do!

 

[antipodean]

Antipodean

Watch the video again of your point number 6 - what is the signal the referee gives for the penalty? From the side, not playing the ball in the ruck!!

If you watch the replay of the game and turn up your volume you'll hear the referee say "Number 7 entry from the side".

I know what he says and the reason he gives for the penalty. It's also plainly wrong.

S Fingers comes in from the side. McCaw joins the ruck from behind the rear feet through the gate. Fingers then rolls around the gate and flops onto the wrong side of the ruck. McCaw detaches but doesn't move from the spot. McCaw then takes a step forward and attempts to grab the ball. At no point did McCaw come from the side.

As I said in the article there were plenty of other infringements I didn't count as they were minor - for both sides. Kepu's is one of those.

So how is anyone supposed to give any credence to your count in your article?

Horwill was the tackler - he is entitled to get to his feet and participate - he does not have to come back through the gate to get involved. As he starts to bend down to play the ball, Weepu is quite within his rights to stop him partcipating - no infringement by either player - play on.

Horwill wouldn't know that Cooper doesn't attempt to contest the ruck. No doubt he stood up to see the ball and didn't know whether he could play at it.

 

[Jay]

Horwill wouldn't know that Cooper doesn't attempt to contest the ruck. No doubt he stood up to see the ball and didn't know whether he could play at it.

That's a bit of a reach. Horwill tackles and goes to ground then gets up and sees there's no one around the tackled player appearing to be contesting - Cooper is about 1.5 metres away at that point. I think he can assume (rightly) that a ruck hasn't been created and that he can legally contest.

Even if he's not sure, rugby at the breakdown is largely about trying your luck - in this case it's not even a 50/50 call but more of an 80/20.

 

[Scott Allen]

I know what he says and the reason he gives for the penalty. It's also plainly wrong.

S Fingers comes in from the side. McCaw joins the ruck from behind the rear feet through the gate. Fingers then rolls around the gate and flops onto the wrong side of the ruck. McCaw detaches but doesn't move from the spot. McCaw then takes a step forward and attempts to grab the ball. At no point did McCaw come from the side.

In my opinion you are wrong on both counts but that's the beauty of opinion - I won't convince you you're wrong and you won't convince me.

 

[Scott Allen]

So how is anyone supposed to give any credence to your count in your article?

If I was to include video of every infringement the video would be far too long and very boring but I've got video cut up of every single infringement, a detailed list of the reason it was an infringement and the player involved. I didn't pull the numbers out of the air.

If you dispute my numbers, let's see your alternative analysis.

 

[yourmatesam]

If you dispute my numbers, let's see your alternative analysis.

I bet the silence will be deafening here scotty.

Two thumbs up on the reviews, I'm looking forward to the final instalment of the Tri-Nations. Keep up the good work.

 

[antipodean]

That's a bit of a reach. Horwill tackles and goes to ground then gets up and sees there's no one around the tackled player appearing to be contesting - Cooper is about 1.5 metres away at that point. I think he can assume (rightly) that a ruck hasn't been created and that he can legally contest.

As I said, I think his hesitation is he doesn't know.

If you dispute my numbers, let's see your alternative analysis.

I provided it and you've already conceded the point. You didn't count it despite it being an infringement.

 

[drewprint]

Well done Austin. An excellent and even handed summary and analysis. Never mind the squealing minority.