the gambler
Dave Cowper (27)
According to Fox Sports Douglas has signed a new 2 year deal but Palmer has signed with Brumbies
Palmer Gooone - Douglas Stays
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en_force_er
Geoff Shaw (53)
Is it just me or would no intelligent THP sign to the Brumbies unless one or more of Shep, Ma'afu & Alexander were leaving?
More than meets the eye? I think so.
Oh, and congrats to the Tahs on Douglas.
More than meets the eye? I think so.
Oh, and congrats to the Tahs on Douglas.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Good luck to the young bloke. I hope he gets more game time down there and starts a rise to national honours - or a least becomes a valid candidate. We Tahs tragics know him well but the average punter at the SFS, never well informed, hardly know him; so they won't miss him much.
I would rather have him go to the Rebels to get more game time unless they get a marquee THP, but if Young rates him it is a good sign that he will get to start in Super games and he will learn a lot under Bill just as he would have under Foley. It's good to see that there is a bit of scrum coaching talent in Oz Super teams.
Shepherdson will find himself more marginalised than ever. IIRR I read somewhere that he has an option to play for the Brumbies next year but it looks like he won't exercise it with Palmer moving in. It looks odds on that he will go to the Rebels but sometimes things don't work out how we think they will. He could go offshore. Even though there will be 5 Super teams in the future some guys, especially those who have been there and done that and have "Wallaby" on the CV, could go offshore at Shepherdson's age because they have little likelihood of a RWC berth.
As for the Tahs: it damages our depth but that is as it should be with NSW having 2/3rds of the players. We will still have THP Baxter until the end of the 2011 S15 and LHP Fat Cat with Kepu covering both. We have LHP Ofa in the professional stable as well as Uni 1st Grade THP Paddy Ryan, who can also play LHP. As an experienced Academy player who has been around the traps, Ofa could get an offer south of the border and if he does, he will have deserved it.
As for Alexander being disadvantaged at the Wallabies as THP for playing too much at LHP: it ain't necessarily so. There will be a lot more games next year and more rotation required. Plus, an old fattie once told me that THP is a strength position and LHP a technical position, and it is at LHP where you need more practice - generally speaking, he added.
I would rather have him go to the Rebels to get more game time unless they get a marquee THP, but if Young rates him it is a good sign that he will get to start in Super games and he will learn a lot under Bill just as he would have under Foley. It's good to see that there is a bit of scrum coaching talent in Oz Super teams.
Shepherdson will find himself more marginalised than ever. IIRR I read somewhere that he has an option to play for the Brumbies next year but it looks like he won't exercise it with Palmer moving in. It looks odds on that he will go to the Rebels but sometimes things don't work out how we think they will. He could go offshore. Even though there will be 5 Super teams in the future some guys, especially those who have been there and done that and have "Wallaby" on the CV, could go offshore at Shepherdson's age because they have little likelihood of a RWC berth.
As for the Tahs: it damages our depth but that is as it should be with NSW having 2/3rds of the players. We will still have THP Baxter until the end of the 2011 S15 and LHP Fat Cat with Kepu covering both. We have LHP Ofa in the professional stable as well as Uni 1st Grade THP Paddy Ryan, who can also play LHP. As an experienced Academy player who has been around the traps, Ofa could get an offer south of the border and if he does, he will have deserved it.
As for Alexander being disadvantaged at the Wallabies as THP for playing too much at LHP: it ain't necessarily so. There will be a lot more games next year and more rotation required. Plus, an old fattie once told me that THP is a strength position and LHP a technical position, and it is at LHP where you need more practice - generally speaking, he added.
Langthorne
Phil Hardcastle (33)
of course the other possibility is that with regular game time, and quick development of his all round game, Palmer could get the Wallaby THP position and Alexander (or Robinson) end up on the bench. More likely that he'll warm the bench in Canberra instead of Sydney.
Interesting that Palmer thinks he can learn more from the Brumbies props than the Waratah props, or were those just the usual cliche platitudes?
Interesting that Palmer thinks he can learn more from the Brumbies props than the Waratah props, or were those just the usual cliche platitudes?
T
tranquility
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This decision frustrates me alot.
I just can't understand why players do this, why not back yourself? go and nail that starting spot in Melbourne.
When I heard the Rebels were in, I thought great. Naturally I thought that excellent players who were blocked would go down - Kingi, Halangahu, Frier, Palmer, Beau Robinson, Leaflifano/To'omua, Kepu, Mckibbin, Ofa etc. But they just don't seem willing to have a crack.
Although to be honest it looks like Melbourne are struggling to sign anyone - I am getting the feeling that existing starters are going to be pilfered and capable performers are just going to stand in line?
I hope we don't see too many more of these 'Palmer' decisions.
I just can't understand why players do this, why not back yourself? go and nail that starting spot in Melbourne.
When I heard the Rebels were in, I thought great. Naturally I thought that excellent players who were blocked would go down - Kingi, Halangahu, Frier, Palmer, Beau Robinson, Leaflifano/To'omua, Kepu, Mckibbin, Ofa etc. But they just don't seem willing to have a crack.
Although to be honest it looks like Melbourne are struggling to sign anyone - I am getting the feeling that existing starters are going to be pilfered and capable performers are just going to stand in line?
I hope we don't see too many more of these 'Palmer' decisions.
Langthorne
Phil Hardcastle (33)
Yeah, it would be easier to take if he moved to the Rebels for a starting spot.
Maybe he is one of those players who thinks he needs to move in order to be in team that will win the comp (that whole way of thinking, prevalent in football, is totally misguided to me - 'my current team isn't winning, so i'll move to a team that is'...why don't you take responsibility and find a way to win, rather than become a passenger?)
Maybe he is one of those players who thinks he needs to move in order to be in team that will win the comp (that whole way of thinking, prevalent in football, is totally misguided to me - 'my current team isn't winning, so i'll move to a team that is'...why don't you take responsibility and find a way to win, rather than become a passenger?)
Short-sighted choice, I feel. Not sour grapes at the Tahs loss (I expect NSWRU to completely cock up these recruitment issues as a matter of course) but I just don't see the "fit" at the Brumbies. He may well end up being bench material there too, so where's the gain? I'm sure Spook or Louie can explain it further.
Good luck to him, but I'm not sure he's done himself any favours. Hope I'm wrong, would love to see him thrive.
Good luck to him, but I'm not sure he's done himself any favours. Hope I'm wrong, would love to see him thrive.
Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
Long term (2-3 year long term) this is the dumbest move by the Tah management imagineable. Palmer was put on a long term contract because he was that good! In 3 years time a front row of Robinson, TPN/Fitzpatrick and Palmer would have been the best front row in S15 by a mile. To make that happen Palmer had to get some game time this year; ie he needed to be told that Baxter would be rested for the easier games so he could get time to show how he was developing to everyone, including the Wallaby selectors.
But no. Focus on this year only, never think about next year, keep Robinson going even though he's injured instead of giving Kepu time at LHP. Use him at replacement THP instead. Play Baxter against the Sharks, whose scrum is weak, play Baxter against the Lions who either come second last or last every year. So Palmer knows he's not going to get a game and moves anywhere else in the hope that it might be better than where he is. He makes a bad decision because he's behind a lot of good props at the Brumbies too. Bad for him because he's now further behind Weekes than he was at the start of the season, super bad for the Wallaby future.
I sense the ultra-conservative hand of Hickey behind this. Last year he wouldn't change 12 & 13 till it was too late in case he made a mistake. This year he destroys the morale of the most promising THP we've had in decades so he leaves. Why? Because he is too afraid to make a blunder that might leave him open to criticism, and in doing so he stuffs everything up. Anese was still fullback and Carter 13 in a previously under-performing backline last week against the team coming second last, when a bit of experimentation would have given us some answers. Two years ago, Kurtley was leading us to an improbable victory in the final, only to be cruelly struck down by injury. Now he's going so badly he only rates a few minutes at 15 against the Lions. Has Kurtley gone downhill so much, or has he just been put out to pasture by a coach who thinks creativity is a swear word. The Wallaby coach doesn't think so, he's still selecting him in the Wallaby squad and taking him on overseas tours. This is what you get from a coach who thinks only "I must not lose." Who dares, wins!
PS. I promise to stop, its getting repetitious, but the Tahs could be so much better with a better coach!
But no. Focus on this year only, never think about next year, keep Robinson going even though he's injured instead of giving Kepu time at LHP. Use him at replacement THP instead. Play Baxter against the Sharks, whose scrum is weak, play Baxter against the Lions who either come second last or last every year. So Palmer knows he's not going to get a game and moves anywhere else in the hope that it might be better than where he is. He makes a bad decision because he's behind a lot of good props at the Brumbies too. Bad for him because he's now further behind Weekes than he was at the start of the season, super bad for the Wallaby future.
I sense the ultra-conservative hand of Hickey behind this. Last year he wouldn't change 12 & 13 till it was too late in case he made a mistake. This year he destroys the morale of the most promising THP we've had in decades so he leaves. Why? Because he is too afraid to make a blunder that might leave him open to criticism, and in doing so he stuffs everything up. Anese was still fullback and Carter 13 in a previously under-performing backline last week against the team coming second last, when a bit of experimentation would have given us some answers. Two years ago, Kurtley was leading us to an improbable victory in the final, only to be cruelly struck down by injury. Now he's going so badly he only rates a few minutes at 15 against the Lions. Has Kurtley gone downhill so much, or has he just been put out to pasture by a coach who thinks creativity is a swear word. The Wallaby coach doesn't think so, he's still selecting him in the Wallaby squad and taking him on overseas tours. This is what you get from a coach who thinks only "I must not lose." Who dares, wins!
PS. I promise to stop, its getting repetitious, but the Tahs could be so much better with a better coach!
T
tranquility
Guest
good post.
May I ask - where has Palmer dominated to such a degree that he is being touted so highly? I am not being condescending it is just I am from Queensland and have no info on the guy.
May I ask - where has Palmer dominated to such a degree that he is being touted so highly? I am not being condescending it is just I am from Queensland and have no info on the guy.
en_force_er
Geoff Shaw (53)
tranquility said:
I speak for others here but I get the feeling it is more the fact he was a dominating scrummager in his few S14 games at 21, which is extremely uncommonly early. Fitz for example, despite his size, seems to battle. I think any even weighted individual would except Palmer's exploits in other facets of the game are still a work-in-progress.
Basically he is a kid who right now could do anything with his rugby, so everyone is being particularly optimistic with his career prospects. Really, why not? It's better than the pessimistic stuff Growden turns out.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Well said enforcer.
People who think Palmer is ruining his career by going to Brumbies are running off at the mouth. FFS he is 21 years old and will be under Bill Young - a cheating LHP, I know, but he knows a bit.
Not many players ruin their careers with the Brumbies mob. If they are any good they will come through. If they aren't much good they won't, wherever they play.
Dan is not from the big smoke, he's from the South Coast. Who knows: living in the ACT may suit him better. There are all kinds of reasons young people move around and outsiders are often wrong as to why they do.
He's backing himself to come good down there - and good on him - but as I queried above: I thought he had a 3 year deal with the Tahs that went through until 2011. Maybe both parties had an option on the 3rd year. We punters don't always get to hear these things.
Why did the Tahs let him go?: maybe it is straight forward incompetence, but maybe it isn't. Yeah I know the rugby consequences for the Tahs as well as anybody, but I also know that things are not always what they seem.
What has he proved? Others can judge better than I can, but I have never seen him falter if you discount his side's missing the hit sometimes. He has an older man's presence at the scrum and always has. I remember his coming off the bench as a teenager at Carisbrook 2 years ago and going against a giant Highlander pack and he didn't take a backward step.
I am pleased that Douglas signed on for 2 years. He has been the big nice surprise for the Tahs.
I hadn't seen him for 12 months when I saw him in the trials this year and he looked pretty good but trials don't signify a lot. The first clue that Academy player Douglas was highly regarded was when a S14 contracted player, Thomson, was left at home for the RSA trip, and he started in both games. There was a bit of serendipity for him: the injury to Jowitt and the suspension of Mumm opened the door.
Now he is a regular; Caldwell has to play from the bench and Dud Roodt doesn't rate a mention. Douglas will be a Wallaby one day though I wouldn't be putting him in 3N type games until he becomes more of a bruiser. Early days for that.
People who think Palmer is ruining his career by going to Brumbies are running off at the mouth. FFS he is 21 years old and will be under Bill Young - a cheating LHP, I know, but he knows a bit.
Not many players ruin their careers with the Brumbies mob. If they are any good they will come through. If they aren't much good they won't, wherever they play.
Dan is not from the big smoke, he's from the South Coast. Who knows: living in the ACT may suit him better. There are all kinds of reasons young people move around and outsiders are often wrong as to why they do.
He's backing himself to come good down there - and good on him - but as I queried above: I thought he had a 3 year deal with the Tahs that went through until 2011. Maybe both parties had an option on the 3rd year. We punters don't always get to hear these things.
Why did the Tahs let him go?: maybe it is straight forward incompetence, but maybe it isn't. Yeah I know the rugby consequences for the Tahs as well as anybody, but I also know that things are not always what they seem.
What has he proved? Others can judge better than I can, but I have never seen him falter if you discount his side's missing the hit sometimes. He has an older man's presence at the scrum and always has. I remember his coming off the bench as a teenager at Carisbrook 2 years ago and going against a giant Highlander pack and he didn't take a backward step.
I am pleased that Douglas signed on for 2 years. He has been the big nice surprise for the Tahs.
I hadn't seen him for 12 months when I saw him in the trials this year and he looked pretty good but trials don't signify a lot. The first clue that Academy player Douglas was highly regarded was when a S14 contracted player, Thomson, was left at home for the RSA trip, and he started in both games. There was a bit of serendipity for him: the injury to Jowitt and the suspension of Mumm opened the door.
Now he is a regular; Caldwell has to play from the bench and Dud Roodt doesn't rate a mention. Douglas will be a Wallaby one day though I wouldn't be putting him in 3N type games until he becomes more of a bruiser. Early days for that.
S
Spook
Guest
Langthorne said:
We have a greater tradition of good props. Noriega, Darwin, Young, Alexander...The Tahs have FatCat.
Spook said:Langthorne said:
We have a greater tradition of good props. Noriega, Darwin, Young, Alexander...The Tahs have FatCat.
Actually Eastwood is the home of the Front Row in aus for at least last 15 years or so Young, Alexander, Moore, Dunning, Robinson, Broughton Rouse, Longbottom & Fitzpatrick have all spent time there
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