One hell of a whinge from our Kiwi compadres

[Jay]

The article and the video from NZ have changed my view on this world cup. Before I wanted the Wallabies to win. Now I would be more enthused to see the AB's lose no matter who wins(except England).

That's pretty bad isn't it...

Not really, did you see the rugby world's reaction in 2007? It's pretty much the standard these days.

 

[Joe Mac]

Not for me. I have always supported the AB's if the WB's weren't playing. Well, I always had until last weekend. Until last weekend, I have commented that I wouldn't be too upset losing to the AB's in the final(as long as we beat England in the Semi's).

 

[Bullrush]

Aussies aren't immune to a good ol' whinge. Remember the Bledisloe test in Sydney last year when Ritchie scored that try from the scrum?

Bob Dwyer even titled his blog that week: Referee Blunder Denies Wallaby Victory

And then you had comments and posts like:

I am pissed in a couple of ways, but I have to say I will never attend a game that is refereed by Lawrence or Kraplan ever again under any circumstances. They are fucking useless.

1. Lawrence penalised Pocock at the breakdown for imaginary offence in the first minute
2. McCaw's try should have been a penalty to the Wallabies as McCaw detached and run wide before the ball was cleared to give him that overlap. That said, FFS JOC (James O'Connor) isn't a wing, fourth or fifth try conceded on his wing because he is out of position.
3. Conrad Smith constantly falls on the wrong side (same old thing from Scarfies Video). I am sick to death of this if it means players getting sent off so be it stomp the shit out of them. Don't hold but maim the cheating pricks.

I don't believe the ABs are that far in front if they had to play to the rules. Before the Wallabies first try they gave away four penalties in a row which the Wallabies were given adavantage for. How many more penalties did the cheating scum concede in the 22 and no warning given yet again. It will be interesting to see but I would hazard a guess that the ABs conceded nearly double the penalties the other 3N teams on top of the illegalities not penalised and they still did not get the sanctions against them

They constantly cheat, and while we have calls go our way some times, we dont constantly cheat. Its fucking bullshit what they get away with.

Fuck. They didn't win that, we lost.

How is it that both the assistant ref and main ref, standing right next to the scrum can't see that McCaw clearly detatches prior to the ball being out. I mean, how much more obvious can it get. For him to already be in position to receive a pass when Reid picks it up from the scrum means that he either has a time machine, he is the half back, or it is a clear penalty. Fuck me it can't get anymore obvious than that.

How do they keep getting the best of the calls from these referees (particularly south african ones)? It wasn't like they were getting the rub of the green because they had clearly dominanted the match. It wasn't like they were getting calls due to being the home team. I just can't understand why such crucial decisions go in their favour

McCaw IS a cheat. He cheats constantly and it is not pushing the boundaries with split second judgement calls at the ruck. That scrum was a set move, it was illegal end of. Add in the first penalty that was not take 10 points off the ABs. The Wallabies did not lose so much as the refereeing decided this game. Considering I bet on a AB win I expected them to win this game, but in my book they did not.

Mark Lawrence was a disgrace, making bad calls and inconsistent calls almost all night. WTF was with the >9000 minute penalty advantage he played to the blackness down on our line? That and the McCheat try that's already been raised and I'm sure many others.

Yes, I may be angry now, as the above post might suggest but I think this will stand up in the light of day.

And for some balance, some folks were posting things like:

Gotta applaud the All Blacks, they are truly the best sporting team in the world in any sport and code.

Come on guys, we didn't lose because they cheated. It is up to the refs to call the fouls, not the ABs to self-police. If we had some harder heads out there, we would have won. And if Giteau could kick.

There was no disgrace in that loss - the All Blacks were the better side in the second half - the Wallabies stepped up and are much closer to them now.

I dunno - The All Blacks in the last 20minutes were WAYYYYY better than the Wallabies were for the first 60minutes.

Just back from the game.

Not too long ago I would have been gutted but I'm so used to it now. I miss not being gutted.

The big Maori guy next to me said it best; something like: "The Wallabies are a long way ahead but they don't know how to win against us." I didn't disagree with him, and when the Blacks scored the last try he said something like: "I wish I could bottle what the All Blacks have. I'd make a fortune."

The Wallabies were good enough to beat the All Blacks 2 out of 3 this year but they were lacking a few bottles of the good stuff.

Bloody hell - at the crossroads and they went down the same path again.

So maybe we can just agree that we all whinge at some stage or another, we all feel hard-done by at times and sometimes we are even justified in that.

People whinge......that's just the way it is.

 

[Richard D. James]

Lot of effort there Bullrush to prove something we all already know

But you are right, we all have our moments of whining about refs. This time it's your turn.


Thankfully neither of us has resorted to armbands yet.... :fishing

 

[Bullrush]

Lot of effort there Bullrush to prove something we all already know
But you are right, we all have our moments of whining about refs. This time it's your turn.


Thankfully neither of us has resorted to armbands yet.... :fishing

LOL....I was a bit bored at work....hahaha.....c'mon 5.30pm - there are Super Rugby games to be watched!!

 

[Tiger]

Bullrush - fair point!

 

[Richard D. James]

LOL....I was a bit bored at work....hahaha.....c'mon 5.30pm - there are Super Rugby games to be watched!!

haha, yep I think we can all agree on that.

 

[PaarlBok]

Aussies aren't immune to a good ol' whinge.
People whinge......that's just the way it is.

You got your qoutes after matches finished, whinging after your team have lost about the ref always feel like sour grapes. You dont want me to get those ref qoutes before matches?

Whinging is for sussies with wet panties, pretty easier to get over it when you take it on the chin and move on.

 

[Gagger]

Funnily enough, I don't think there is one. The laws just refer to the ruck ending 'when the ball leaves the ruck'.

So, Stu sees it as a ruck, calls it as a ruck (several times), Richie's entered it as a ruck (at 45 degrees, legal for you) and he's put his hands on without any special half-back dispensation - he's just another guy at a ruck. That the penalty.

I'll agree it's not 100% clear cut either way - I reckon Stu would agree in slo-mo hindsight. But you can see where the penalty comes from.

To be safe, I reckon what Richie needed to do was drive diggers back, while staying on his feet and create a offside line that the ball was behind on the saders side. Then the next man (no such thing as a ruck 'half back') could have picked up as the ball would have been out of the ruck, on the Cru's side.

 

[Jay]

So, Stu sees it as a ruck, calls it as a ruck (several times), Richie's entered it as a ruck (at 45 degrees, legal for you) and he's put his hands on without any special half-back dispensation - he's just another guy at a ruck. That the penalty.

I'll agree it's not 100% clear cut either way - I reckon Stu would agree in slo-mo hindsight. But you can see where the penalty comes from.

To be safe, I reckon what Richie needed to do was drive diggers back, while staying on his feet and create a offside line that the ball was behind on the saders side. Then the next man (no such thing as a ruck 'half back') could have picked up as the ball would have been out of the ruck, on the Cru's side.

Firstly, entering a ruck from an onside position at 45 degrees is legal in rugby. It's not an opinion, it's a fact.

I agree that to be safe, McCaw should have driven over the ball.

But there is such a thing as a ruck half back in practise - while there's nothing mentioned in the rules, refs obviously allow a guy standing behind the ruck to dig in the ruck with their hands to get it back. In fact, they allow that player to do so from what is technically an offside position - eg putting one foot in front of the hindmost foot (as an example, look at the way Genia is standing before the clear out - his right foot is in front of the hindmost foot). I suspect if McCaw had a 9 on his back, no one would have said boo.

 

[Riptide]

What that diagram shows is that McCaw came from an onside position. He'd argue he was acting as halfback as the ball was clear, Dickinson would say the ball was still in the ruck. No one could reasonably argue he came from an offside position.

As for your argument - who exactly is McCaw supposed to bind onto?

I find myself completely in agreement with Jay on this one.

 

[mark_s]

Great post bull rush! We bet one and you raised us three!

 

[ACT Crusader]

Great post bull rush! We gave you one and you raised us three!

The beauty of an interweb forum, it's all there in black and white. Whinge, what whinge

I just wonder how long Bullrush has been waiting to pull that post out...

 

[Gnostic]

I think I see a few of mine their BR. You could have given credit to the authors, 1st year mistake there not giving your references the credit they deserve in the proper format.

 

[ChargerWA]

I haven't commented on this yet, but technically for mine, the one who was penalise was Franks. Counter rucking is legal, charging in, smashing a player and then laying offside at the ruck is not, you still have a responsibilty to maintain your feet while counter rucking. It just looks like Richie was penalised, but Dickinson should have gone to advantage the minute Franks fell down on the wrong side of the ruck, and then it wouldn't have looked like he was penalising Richie.

 

[PaarlBok]

I haven't commented on this yet, but technically for mine, the one who was penalise was Franks. Counter rucking is legal, charging in, smashing a player and then laying offside at the ruck is not, you still have a responsibilty to maintain your feet while counter rucking. It just looks like Richie was penalised, but Dickinson should have gone to advantage the minute Franks fell down on the wrong side of the ruck, and then it wouldn't have looked like he was penalising Richie.

Did you watch the game?

 

[qwerty51]

This is how I saw it. Franks performed a textbook cleanout on Horwill and as a result went over the ball and now the ball was anyone's it was no longer the same ruck, the Reds had no secured the ball properly. It certainly wasn't the Reds breakdown any more as Franks in the act of cleaning out Horwill went over the ball. Richie's come in on his feet and picked up the ball. If Henz picked it up instead of McCaw it would've been fine. I don't want to see that kind of stuff penalised in the future. That was good, aggressive counter-rucking by the Crusaders.

 

[ChargerWA]

This is how I saw it. Franks performed a textbook cleanout on Horwill and as a result went over the ball and now the ball was anyone's it was no longer the same ruck, the Reds had no secured the ball properly. It certainly wasn't the Reds breakdown any more as Franks in the act of cleaning out Horwill went over the ball. Richie's come in on his feet and picked up the ball. If Henz picked it up instead of McCaw it would've been fine. I don't want to see that kind of stuff penalised in the future. That was good, aggressive counter-rucking by the Crusaders.

Textbook cleanout? He went off his feet.

 

[PaarlBok]

It wasnt about the way we saw it. DickHeadSon showed clearly the reason why he gave the penalty to McAwe. Vok this is really getting old now.

 

[qwerty51]

Textbook cleanout? He went off his feet.

It's interesting you bring that up, personally I think it is technically diving off your feet. Brad Thorn does this every ruck. It is however imo a perfect, aggressive clean out and I'm glad it's generally not penalised. The ref didn't penalise for that anyway so the cleanout that went over the ball resulted the ruck in the Crusaders favour as they had a man over the ball and the ball was open.