Olympic sevens selection

[Forcefield]

Looking at Carlin Isles reminds me a bit of Brett Stapleton. I wonder what he would have been like if he'd stuck around and played 7s.

 

[BrumbiesPolynesian]

I think you will find NZ will be pretty hard to beat in the 2015 Olympics. They have a team full of Sevens specialists and when you can call on the likes of Savea, Messam, Dagg to strengthen a team (all who are ex IRB 7s players for NZ), i think their depth is far too superior as will be Fijis. Australia while they have an abundance of Flair like the Coopers, Genias, Ioanes etc...none of them have played 7s for long periods of time. If Australia are to send a full strength team to the Olympics..thoes players will have to have need to spend a full season on the IRB circuit...which wont happen..

 

[wamberal]

I suspect that the ARU will require each Super Rugby franchise to give up one front-line player to the Sevens squad, during the Olympic year.

We could put up a pretty competitive squad, I reckon.

 

[TOCC]

I suspect that the ARU will require each Super Rugby franchise to give up one front-line player to the Sevens squad, during the Olympic year.

We could put up a pretty competitive squad, I reckon.

I reckon that would be a mistake, it didn't work at the Commonwealth games in Melbourne and 7's has developed significantly further since... Maybe someone like Morahan who has played 7's most off seasons could be called in, but not a player who hasn't played regularly.

 

[Jets]

The 7's program needs to be seen as the 6th team in Australia. They need a squad of 25-30 players who are dedicated to playing 7's for at least 2 years. This way they will be up to speed to what the team wants and we wont have the situation where guys are being dragged into the team on short notice and don't know what's going on.
Also the team needs a home base. All 7's players should train together so they are all doing the same thing and are receiving the same coaching.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

7's is a specialist form of rugby. Time to face facts. Brilliant athletes in the 15 aside game are no longer the automatic walk in selections that they were in the "olden days".

Many 7's superstars struggle in the 15 aside game and vice versa.

To win Gold at Rio will involve a significant long term development strategy and will not be a case of some good footy players getting together for the first time in Jan 2016.

 

[Bardon]

There was a very interesting interview last year or the year before with the head of England 7s where he talked about how they were moving away from the automatic assumption that 15s from the highest level were the best recruits for 7s.

He said something along the lines of the 7s players were so much fitter that the 15s they spent too long working on the 15s players fitness that it was much easier to start with a 7s specialist.

 

[happyjack]

Jets is correct. 7s should be a separate franchise with contracts and options timelined to the Olympic cycle.
While the national academy can make major contributions here (as with the U20s) it essential that we establish a national 7s championship as per NZ.
Who knows, once the top clubs start competing across borders on a smaller scale (only 7 players, squad of 12), perhaps we might see more drive and support for a national 15s comp of whatever structure.
One thing is for sure. Irrespective of the code/sport you support all Australians get on board come the Olympics. Being competitive in Rio will do more for profiling the game in new markets than traditional victories that only attract the attention of converted supporters.

 

[p.Tah]

Sorry I disagree about 15s players not being suitable for 7s these days. If a 15s player devoted 18 months to 7s they would 'own' the game. Digby, Beale, Cooper, JOC (James O'Connor), Hooper, Gill and Schatz would carve up our current 7s team. Tiejens would love to have access to Ranger, Conrad Smith, Dagg and Guilford.

 

[TOCC]

Yes well 18 months lead up for a current Wallaby is a different story, I think the posts above were all advocating that you can't just poach XV's players for one-off tournaments...

No Wallabies will be committing themselves to 2 years of 7's rugby and giving up on XV's.

 

[wamberal]

We just do not have the depth in Sevens to allow us to ignore 15s players who have the skills, speed, and other attributes that are needed. As I have said earlier, any player who wants to be in the Olympic Sevens squad would have to play the full IRB circuit, and I have absolutely no doubt that there will be some top-down manipulation to ensure that the very best possible Sevens squad goes to Rio.

Incidentally, when I talk about depth in Sevens, I am referring to the virtual absence of a serious domestic Sevens circuit as much as anything else. We already take guys out of 15s and put them into the Sevens squad. Why would we not continue to do that, especially if the 15s recruits are particularly gifted at the game of rugby (80% or more of the skills sets are portable between 7s and 15s, I would say). A great player can pick the additional 20% up during a full Sevens season.

 

[churchills cigar]

We just do not have the depth in Sevens to allow us to ignore 15s players who have the skills, speed, and other attributes that are needed. As I have said earlier, any player who wants to be in the Olympic Sevens squad would have to play the full IRB circuit, and I have absolutely no doubt that there will be some top-down manipulation to ensure that the very best possible Sevens squad goes to Rio.
Incidentally, when I talk about depth in Sevens, I am referring to the virtual absence of a serious domestic Sevens circuit as much as anything else. We already take guys out of 15s and put them into the Sevens squad. Why would we not continue to do that, especially if the 15s recruits are particularly gifted at the game of rugby (80% or more of the skills sets are portable between 7s and 15s, I would say). A great player can pick the additional 20% up during a full Sevens season.

We actually DO NOT take contracted super players for the sevens. Moraghan's use on the Gold Coast was a one off due to availability to him not being in the Wallaby squad and a dire injury toll to key attacking players.
O'Connor has made it very clear that if S15 players want to be in the Olympic contention they must play the full 12 months prior and not be on contract demand of super 15.
He has also said that yes, there will be maybe three or four sup players who will be prepared to make tat sacrifice but, they will be making a sacrifice in terms of money and the bulk of the Olympic team will be those that have committed to the sevens for the duration of the time, there will not be a repeat of the disaster of the morale situation at the Commonwealth Games.
This time they are looking to reward consistency and dedication, not glory hunters.
Realistically there will not be sufficient reserves in the s15 keep, so the bulk of the squad must be from the sevens squad, but those players will not commit to four years of below par wages if they are going to be shafted at Olympic time. The only way to keep the sevens squad together is to give them some form of quarantine for the games, otherwise our sevens program will disintegrate quicker than a corn flake in warm milk.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I love Braveheart's comments that Pocock would make a great 7s player and Cooper would be a terrible one. Good to see commence sense certainly doesn't get in the way of the Pocock love and Cooper hate around here.

 

[qwerty51]

Cooper would make a terrible 7s player, he can't defend.

 

[wamberal]

I wonder what Tietjens will do? My guess is that a couple of 15s players will be parachuted into their squad, players of the calibre of Dagg and Kaino - or their equivalents at the time.


We would be daft not to do a similar thing, frankly.

 

[churchills cigar]

I wonder what Tietjens will do? My guess is that a couple of 15s players will be parachuted into their squad, players of the calibre of Dagg and Kaino - or their equivalents at the time.


We would be daft not to do a similar thing, frankly.

See this is where I get confused, most posters do exhibit a pretty good grasp of what's not and what is, so do you really think a 28 and 33 year old will cut it in the high paced game of sevens?
I think Tietjens is a bit more astute than that and I would be surprised if he was any different in maintaining a solid working squad thru to the games.
Of all the coaches he is the least likely to be pressured into parachuting high profile players into the s quad.

 

[wamberal]

See this is where I get confused, most posters do exhibit a pretty good grasp of what's not and what is, so do you really think a 28 and 33 year old will cut it in the high paced game of sevens?
I think Tietjens is a bit more astute than that and I would be surprised if he was any different in maintaining a solid working squad thru to the games.
Of all the coaches he is the least likely to be pressured into parachuting high profile players into the s quad.

I did not mean to impy that the players I named would be in their squad, but "players of that calibre", if they are around at the time. I think of a player like Christian Cullen, who was an absolute sensation when he first appeared in Sevens. The 2016 equivalents of Cullen, Dagg, Lomu, Kaino - who knows who they will be? Maybe there won't be any, but given the recent history of New Zealand rugby, I would expect some stars to emerge from the 15s game that fit this specification.

Of course nobody can pressure Tietjens, I did not say anything to imply that they could. But he is astute enough to do whatever it takes to win gold, and I doubt that he would turn his nose up at picking a match-winner or two, just because they have not been playing the IRB Sevens circuit their whole career.

 

[TOCC]

What's that old saying..."a team of champions doesn't make a champion team"

I still think the majority of 7's squads will be players who have been regularly on the 7's circuit in the preceding 18months...

 

[wamberal]

What's that old saying."a team of champions doesn't make a champion team"

I still think the majority of 7's squads will be players who have been regularly on the 7's circuit in the preceding 18months.

I doubt that anybody who knows anything about Sevens would disagree with that.


All I have been debating is what sort of majority a guru like Tietjens will go for, and the possibility that a minority of his squad (and our squad) might be 15s stars.

 

[swingpass]

i suspect there will be few, if any S15 and no test players in the 7's squad, unless they make the switch after the lions tour. as all have said it will take at least 18 months of dedicated training and playing on the circuit to mould a team. the "talent scouts" will be out looking for "athletes" in the broadest sense, as they are with the women. picking some players with outright pace and others with the aerobic capacity to last.
2106 will be big but come 2020, 7's will be played by many (?most) who have never played 15's and the organisation of that pathway will be run by the AOC rather than the ARU i believe