Sorry to burst your bubble, but he's signed with the Rebels until the end of 2016
Is a marathon, not a sprint
Official Sean McMahon Bandwagon Thread
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Is a marathon, not a sprint
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Hooper was 21 when he arrived at the Tahs.
McMahon would be 22 at the start of 2017 so there'd probably still be a few good years of rugby left in him.
The main question will probably be Wicks, or Buildcorp in 2017?
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
Well he probably was the best fetcher in the world at the time. But he still had plenty of other skills.
T
Train Without a Station
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It's more a reflection of the way the rest of the world plays. With Hooper we are just late to the party.
SA prefer Coetzee and Louw to Brussow who is much more similar to the Pocock or Gill mould.
Cane can make good pilfers but he's closer to a 6 of a few years ago. McCaw too. Even Todd is quite a good support runner and attacking player. Sean O'Brien and Chris Robson I don't think I've ever seen pilfer in any game I've watched.
France play with 2 flankers of a similar style in a left or right formation.
Australia are one of the last major nations that still has a lot of jackal style openside flankers, where that is the strongest part of their play (I say strongest because look at McCaw and Cane and if they didn't make a pilfer in a game, you wouldn't notice because of the impact they have around the ground. But they are still good at that part of the game too).
Yes players like Smith would still be dominant, but that's because his impact was on many facets of the game.
Pocock/McMahon would be stronger in some parts, but then without Fardy you lose a top line line out option and the extra 10kg on the tight head side of the scrum. These types of things you notice them more when they aren't there, than when they are there.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
George did more than just pilfer. He had the skills of a back and the hardness of a good back row forward. He was a freak and our best ever openside.
T
Train Without a Station
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Harder hitter than Waugh, Pocock or Hooper.
Could run a line as well as Hooper,
Had the skills of most 12's.
Probably one of the most well rounded players we've had in the modern era.
Could run a line as well as Hooper,
Had the skills of most 12's.
Probably one of the most well rounded players we've had in the modern era.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Is it time to consider Pocock vs Hooper on this thread as well?
Soon we'll have correspondents lining up behind their OSF's along state/franchise lines. Rinse and repeat of the debate on nearly every match thread.
Soon we'll have correspondents lining up behind their OSF's along state/franchise lines. Rinse and repeat of the debate on nearly every match thread.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
HJ I want it noted for the record that as a Queenslander living in Melbourne, I support the NSW option, free from provincial bias!
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
Is it really a selection of preference though or a reflection of form, or simply a reflection on there current playing stock? I recall Broussow being a preferred option when he was in form. Lots of hype around him and his fetching abilities as it adds another dimension to the SA game. Since then he has had a run of injuries and the other flankers were miles ahead of him on form.
If Pocock were SA, or in the Northern Hemisphere, would they really put him on the bench? I doubt it.
Didn't realise Fardy had 10kgs on McMahon. McMahon is young and I'm sure will put on a few more Kilo's. I think you would lose a bit of mobility with Pocock/McMahon over Fardy/Hooper, but you would gain with aggression into the contact zone which is what Cheika-ball is all about.
I think they are both great pairing. Both balanced with only slight differences. Currently though Fardy/Hooper is proven, Pocock/McMahon is potential.
Look forward to Aus future in the backrow.
Well the best is debatable, he and McCaw were neck & neck
But I think the key point is that he grew as a player and expanded his game, the good players do that.
On Mcmahon, he isn't the messiah, but he looks a good young all round backrower suited to play 7, but talented enough to play 6 as well.
IMHO a back row of Hooper & McMahon is dwarfish. I have memories of Waugh & Smith having the same issues. Great on the ground, but lineout skills and physicality was lacking.
Tomikin
David Codey (61)
He wasn't just a fetcher but, for ten years he was what everyone wanted from a fetcher, so are we saying that the standard fetcher job died before he came around.
The comment was that fetcher have no place in the modern game and Australia just learned this.
G.Smith was our most outstanding 7 and the prototype of what 7's should be.
EDIT: my post was basically a dig at people saying we are slow to the party, as Hooper's more a 7 now then a fetcher. I tend to think we were first to the party with G.Smith and still haven't replaced him.
T
Train Without a Station
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Brussow was preferred due to Burger having an even more horror run with injuries since 2007 (quite the competition between them - just not how SA rugby would have liked). But even still he was the only player of that size and style to make his mark on the Boks at all. Cobus Grobelaar never even played a test as far as I can remember.
McMahon is probably the most talented of all the 4 players we are discussing and I'm sure he will play quite a few tests.
Personally, I just don't think he will ever be a long term first choice option in any position. He may bulk up more, but he won't get any taller. If anything that will make him less effective as a line out option. His parents genetics not allowing him to be 4 inches taller may be the only thing that holds him back in his career.
That being said, Ed Quirk looked just as good in 2013 and he struggled in 2014 so let's see Sean play another season or two before putting to much pressure on him anyway.
McMahon is probably the most talented of all the 4 players we are discussing and I'm sure he will play quite a few tests.
Personally, I just don't think he will ever be a long term first choice option in any position. He may bulk up more, but he won't get any taller. If anything that will make him less effective as a line out option. His parents genetics not allowing him to be 4 inches taller may be the only thing that holds him back in his career.
That being said, Ed Quirk looked just as good in 2013 and he struggled in 2014 so let's see Sean play another season or two before putting to much pressure on him anyway.
This comment is painting the discussion as far more black and white than it is.
The suggestion has been made by a few people that most international teams are leaning away from a more traditional fetcher at openside flanker and opting for a more rounded backrower. By no means is that a suggestion that there is no place for a pure fetcher in the modern game.
I think part of this is that there has been a big evolution in breakdown work across the park and all players are expected to do it. Pilfers are won across the field when the opportunity presents itself rather than being left predominantly to one player who is there to chase the breakdown.
It seems most international teams are trending towards picking the more all round player than the openside who is a slightly better pilferer.
Part of this definitely seems to be a reaction to the way the breakdown is refereed. If a clear release is enforced, it's a lot harder for a defensive team to win turnovers.
If your best fetcher is winning less than one extra turnover per game than another player who provides more in other aspects of the game it seems coaches and selectors are opting for that versatility more often than not.
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
So where would you like to see McMahon, at 6 or 7?
Considering he is still being used as a line-out option, that might be not as big an issue as you think. Assuming he is more then capable of winning our own throw but might lack defensive line-out abilities, If Higgers is your 8 then that shouldn't be a problem. 2 locks, 6 and 8 option for our own throw, and at least 2 (a lock, and Higgers) good defending operators.
T
Train Without a Station
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You've illustrated my point where you've said if higgers is 8 it's not a problem. Any player whose selection will be constrained somewhat by who is in the team around him will struggle to be a first choice. Fardy, for example will always be a better line out option than him.
I think he has the build of a modern 7, but the game of a 6. Id probably have him as a bench loosie as he is versatile. A 7 on the bench limits how you play too much. A player that can cover 7, but plays 6 well and has played some 8 is a much better reserve option.
I think he has the build of a modern 7, but the game of a 6. Id probably have him as a bench loosie as he is versatile. A 7 on the bench limits how you play too much. A player that can cover 7, but plays 6 well and has played some 8 is a much better reserve option.
At this stage I'm not really concerned about McMahon's size. The guy plays well above his weight and is physical and aggressive.
I think size is somewhat overrated. Physicality doesn't come from size.
Jacques Potgieter is a good example of that. He was probably the most physically abrasive lock in Super Rugby this year and would be one of the smaller ones in the competition.
I think size is somewhat overrated. Physicality doesn't come from size.
Jacques Potgieter is a good example of that. He was probably the most physically abrasive lock in Super Rugby this year and would be one of the smaller ones in the competition.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
And yes he is used as a line out option. So is Matt Hodgson, but we wouldn't like the prospect of him competing for the ball against Victor Matfield.
T
Train Without a Station
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Size is important in test rugby. It's important to not look just at size though.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Yeah I do but then if he fails then no-one should say he's just a young bloke and he will improve. Then you just fuck that player off into the wilderness.
I tend to subscribe to the theory that young blokes GENERALLY need to become comfortable and earn the "trust" of their team-mates at that level. I feel that makes them a better long option.
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