NZ Domestic comps

[waiopehu oldboy]

Farah Palmer Cup week 4 wrap

Farah Palmer Cup: Round 4 Review

Waikato stayed unbeaten in the Premiership with a gritty 13-5 win over previously unblemished Counties Manukau.

www.allblacks.com

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Isaia Walker-Leawere failed an in-comp cannabis in May which may explain him coming home early from the NZXV tour of Japan. He's now completed a one-month stand down & will presumably be back in NPC shortly.

All Blacks XV player suspended for using cannabis

The Hurricanes player ended the one-month suspension at the weekend.

www.nzherald.co.nz

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Mitch Hunt may come to rue getting injured, young Taine Robinson looks like a future Super Rugby-level 10, I thought, just not sure who for although with RMo heading offshore I guess there's a vacancy at CruSadists for him to learn his trade before looking for a starters gig elsewhere (I'm assuming Fergus Burke is RMo's long-term replacement).

 

[Dan54]

Southland/Northland 15 all at fulltime, someone forgot to tell crowd as they all were walking out, someone eventually got on mike to teall them and plenty stopped. Even the ecoreboard attendants had taken down score!

 

[Dan54]

And after 10 minutes extra time they can go home still 15 all.
To add to it all, Taniwha's storm week this week, not what you need to finish it! No wonder they looking buggered!

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Other than in a knockout match I really don't see the point of Golden Point esp as both teams tend to play for either drop-kickable field position or to milk a kickable penalty. Golden Try I could possibly get behind but Golden Point is rubbish - if you can't do enough to win in the 80+ minutes of regular time just call it a draw & split the points.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

South Canterbury racked up their 22nd consecutive Heartland win yesterday, a new comp record. Unfortunately they did so against the Mighty 'nua which is less than ideal.

South Canterbury 48 (Lieuli Simote, Paula Fifita, Zach McKay 2, Siu Kakala, Finlay Joyce, Sireli Buliruarua, Vaka Taelega tries; Briggs 4cons); Horowhenua-Kapiti 14 (Aaron Lahmet, Leighton Ralph tries; Jack Tatu Robertsson 2cons). Halftime 24-7.


Other scores: North Otago 43, Mid-Canterbury 24; Wairarapa Bush 32, East Coast 31; Thames Valley 36, Whanganui 33; Poverty Bay 52, Buller 33; West Coast 40, King Country 9.

Copied from a Timaru Herald article, provincial parochialism at its finest!

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

NPC Week 2 wrap:

Bunnings NPC: Round 2 Review

Taranaki, by virtue of its storm round, moved to the top of the Bunnings Warehouse NPC competition but is joined in undefeated status by Canterbury, Tasman, Wellington and Hawke's Bay after the second round.

www.provincial.rugby

Farah Palmer Cup Week 5 wrap:

Farah Palmer Cup: Round 5 Review

The contenders are beginning to separate themselves from the pretenders in the Farah Palmer Cup presented by Bunnings Warehouse.

www.provincial.rugby

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

More than a little concerned by Robinson's statement on Breakdown that NPC is "not fit for purpose" & wondering how it could possibly be made so without seriously undermining what I think most would agree is the bedrock of NZ rugby.

 

[qwerty51]

More than a little concerned by Robinson's statement on Breakdown that NPC is "not fit for purpose" & wondering how it could possibly be made so without seriously undermining what I think most would agree is the bedrock of NZ rugby.

One step closer to abandoning it, Super Rugby and (any future versions of the NRC) so one combined comp PLEASE.

 

[Dan54]

More than a little concerned by Robinson's statement on Breakdown that NPC is "not fit for purpose" & wondering how it could possibly be made so without seriously undermining what I think most would agree is the bedrock of NZ rugby.

Yep, but that's not new really WOB, I know what I think would be best, drop the 2 tier comp (NPC and Heartland) and go back to how it used to be, 3 tier. NPC would be for big boys who can afford the costs, 2nd div would be also semi pro but smaller cap , would suit (I think) Manawatu, Southland, Northland, South Canterbury etc, and then amateur 3rd div for the likes of The Nua, Ngati Porou, West Coat, Buller etc.
The main thing Robinson was talking about was the concern that some unions may be spending money on team that could be better spent on community game. I agree it's partly the bedrock of NZ rugby AFTER clubs stuff. I doubt whether there will be too many changes though as PUs won't allow it.

 

[Dan54]

I see they have restored the Ranfurley shield to get it all smicko. Get's knocked around a bit with handling etc.
And too top it off we got probably 2 Shield games in next week, Southland on Saturday, and if they don't win it , Tasman on Wednesday, and that could be a real cracker.
And note if Tasman get it NH will get challenge next Sunday, so 3 challenges in 8 days or so. I do love this time of year with NPC and Shield games etc!!

 

[Dan54]

One step closer to abandoning it, Super Rugby and (any future versions of the NRC) so one combined comp PLEASE.

Won't happen mate, PU's rightfully control NZR, and they won't let it go!

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Won't happen mate, PU's rightfully control NZR, and they won't let it go!

Nor so sure it'd be a repeat of 2010, I've read where either the CEO or Chairman of Southland RU "regrets" being in NPC & some comments out of Manawatu seem to suggest they, too, would be more comfortable in something like the former Championship but without Premiership cross-over matches & potentially the winner of it having the choice of stepping up or remaining. So maybe we go back to a three-tier setup but without automatic promotion/ relegation between Div's 1 & 2 or 2 & 3 (I believe both South Cant'y & Whanganui are content to remain in Heartland).

Have also heard that only Aux, Cantabs & Magpies spent their salary cap this year with Wellington spending ~90% & the others 75% or less, so some of the latter might also be willing to go second-tier.

IMO there needs to be at least an eight- & preferably ten-team fully pro comp that sits below Super Rugby to keep the Super Rugby-quality players in NZ by paying them a livable NPC wage with the opportunity to make good money in Super Rugby if they're good enough.

 

[zer0]

Yeah in an ideal world they probably need to do something like split the system into proper participation/community and pro arms. Set the provinces focus on amateur participation rates, pre- and post-high school, and compete in an amateur NPC (with the Shield), while the franchises handle the pro development and compete in the sub-Super Rugby pro competition. i.e., the provinces build the base of the pyramid (and fan base) and the franchises sharpen the tip for pro competition.

idk exactly how the Irish system works, but there's likely some systems there than can be adapted. Though, I believe, they rely more on a private/elite schools system, like Australia, which I don't think you'd want to encourage here (even if it already sort of exists, at least in Auckland).

ofc that would require the blazer brigade turkeys in Auckland, Wellington, Canterbury etc... to vote for Christmas, which seems unlikely.

 

[zer0]

Nor so sure it'd be a repeat of 2010, I've read where either the CEO or Chairman of Southland RU "regrets" being in NPC & some comments out of Manawatu seem to suggest they, too, would be more comfortable in something like the former Championship but without Premiership cross-over matches & potentially the winner of it having the choice of stepping up or remaining. So maybe we go back to a three-tier setup but without automatic promotion/ relegation between Div's 1 & 2 or 2 & 3 (I believe both South Cant'y & Whanganui are content to remain in Heartland).

Have also heard that only Aux, Cantabs & Magpies spent their salary cap this year with Wellington spending ~90% & the others 75% or less, so some of the latter might also be willing to go second-tier.

I saw the Southland comments, but not Manawatu.

“The NPC competition, the investment from the different PUs is not standard,” Mitchell said. “There's quite a bit of discrepancy and what's invested. There would be a challenge out there that the most expenditure leads to win.

“Wellington won the Ranfurly Shield and won the competition last year, but ended up with a $900,000 deficit. That's not sustainable. And that's what New Zealand Rugby challenged the provincial unions with about three years ago – to actually develop a sustainable delivery model.”

The Stags have struggled in the NPC over the past two years, winning just two games. But their high-performance budget is about $1 million – Auckland spent almost $5 million on commercial and high performance in 2022 – so that’s not surprising.

The Waikato Times

www.waikatotimes.co.nz

 

[Dan54]

Nor so sure it'd be a repeat of 2010, I've read where either the CEO or Chairman of Southland RU "regrets" being in NPC & some comments out of Manawatu seem to suggest they, too, would be more comfortable in something like the former Championship but without Premiership cross-over matches & potentially the winner of it having the choice of stepping up or remaining. So maybe we go back to a three-tier setup but without automatic promotion/ relegation between Div's 1 & 2 or 2 & 3 (I believe both South Cant'y & Whanganui are content to remain in Heartland).

Have also heard that only Aux, Cantabs & Magpies spent their salary cap this year with Wellington spending ~90% & the others 75% or less, so some of the latter might also be willing to go second-tier.

IMO there needs to be at least an eight- & preferably ten-team fully pro comp that sits below Super Rugby to keep the Super Rugby-quality players in NZ by paying them a livable NPC wage with the opportunity to make good money in Super Rugby if they're good enough.

That's exactly what I meant about NPC won't go, there will be tweaks. Obviously problem will be getting everyone on same page. Also why I like idea of 3 tier comp, you can have promo etc provided the union wants to go for it, and has finacial clout. Different salary cap in each tier?
Also there are a couple of MLR clubs paying the wages of a player to get them playing in NPC apparently, and I believe a great way going forward, with relationships with Yank clubs? I somehow think that someone like South Canterbury would get more out of being in a second div, than walking all over heartland teams as they do, and would probably find a few players staying in region. Not sure what answer is , but Championship without crossover matches is basically a 3 div conference anyway, so I reckon that is way to go. It only changed because of PUs last time.

 

[Dan54]

I saw the Southland comments, but not Manawatu.

The Waikato Times

www.waikatotimes.co.nz

Yep , but Wellington's deficit wasn't through Lions, I read somewhere they put a fair bit of maney in some club stuff last year? One answer is of course everyone cut salary cap, but I not sure that realistic anyway.
Read also that average or base salary is $21000 for the 10 week season, and if they dropped cap to where all were happy it would equate to $16000 per player.
In MLR for example they only have a $500,000 salary cap, with top players can be paid no more than $45,000 a season, so players that swap between the comps (ie Jesse Parete from Hawera ) would I guessing be not getting much over $70,000NZD a year, which isn't a huge salary is it? Even NPC players in super probably struggle to see much over $150 grand a year.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

That's exactly what I meant about NPC won't go, there will be tweaks. Obviously problem will be getting everyone on same page. Also why I like idea of 3 tier comp, you can have promo etc provided the union wants to go for it, and has finacial clout. Different salary cap in each tier?
Also there are a couple of MLR clubs paying the wages of a player to get them playing in NPC apparently, and I believe a great way going forward, with relationships with Yank clubs? I somehow think that someone like South Canterbury would get more out of being in a second div, than walking all over heartland teams as they do, and would probably find a few players staying in region. Not sure what answer is , but Championship without crossover matches is basically a 3 div conference anyway, so I reckon that is way to go. It only changed because of PUs last time.

Agree with most of that but having given it some mote thought I can see a coupla potential issues wrt the middle tier:

1. While Heartland teams have the occasional outstanding season e.g NPEC a few years ago the comp is otherwise dominated by South Cant'y & Whanganui, not sure anyone else could go up to that level & maintain it long term.

2. While Southland & Manawatu seem to be open to going middle tier you'd need at least two more to accept relegation to have even a six-team comp (which is surely the minimum) & like you say at that point the PU's might well revolt.

Not sure what the answer is but clearly there's work to be done.

 

[RebelYell]

I actually wonder if there is a potential solution here which incorporates our lack of a 3rd tier in AU. I don't know what that is - it could be Aussie teams sending players over and covering their wages, or it could be incorporating the Australian Super 'B' teams as follows:

Premiership:
Brumbies B, Reds B, Waratahs B, Auckland, Wellington, Canterbury, Tasman, Waikato, Taranaki, Hawke's Bay

Championship:
Force B, Rebels B, Drua B, Northland, Manawatu, Southland, Otago, Waikato, BOP, Counties