Nucifora - Next Wobs Coach?

[Gagger]

I don't agree that The Toxic Event last week has scuppered the putsch, quite the opposite. It's shone a light on a situation that just won't go away - whether you agree with what Quade said and did, or not.

Had it not happened, the only established media line we would have is that bad luck and injuries have cruelled the Wallabies, while the rest of us have a whinge as we have done for months or years about the setup on social media and down the pub. We've all seen how much change that has managed to spark over the last few years.

I couldn't have got it any more directly from one of the involved parties mouths that Nuci is in line for the job as long as O'Neill is in charge. Why else did Nuci ever take this bizarre job he's had for 5 years?

I don't fully know the ins and outs of the bad blood between Link and JO'N; it could stem back to the player revolt days when the code first went pro - or perhaps it was later when Link was with Eddie, who JO'N is public as not being a fan of. Whatever the reason, I DO know it's "over my dead body" for JO'N re: Link.

Media wise, the story of a "Queensland takeover" suits the incumbents more than Link and Carmichael as it unites everyone who's not QLD to push against them. If I was JON, I'd be briefing it.

That doesn't mean there isn't truth in it, and from what we've seen, personnel-wise it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I wouldn't know Big Jim Carmichael from a bar of soap.

Is he any good and why would it be a bad thing if he was in charge of the ARU?

 

[I like to watch]

I don't agree that The Toxic Event last week has scuppered the putsch, quite the opposite. It's shone a light on a situation that just won't go away - whether you agree with what Quade said and did, or not.

Are you suggesting that QC (Quade Cooper)'s little brain fart last week was at the behest of the plotters of the putsch?
Or that it was coincidental, but timely for the putsch to gain some traction?

 

[Paradox]

Are you suggesting that QC (Quade Cooper)'s little brain fart last week was at the behest of the plotters of the putsch?
Or that it was coincidental, but timely for the putsch to gain some traction?

Cooper probably sounded off a few senior officials from the Reds (and perhaps within the ARU as well) prior to his toxic avenger episode. They may have displayed empathy towards his position which emboldened him to twit. I don't think anyone would have actually recommended he do so though.

 

[RedsHappy]

Nope, read it and try again.

I said its obvious there is political monuvering. I didn't say anyone was right or wrong. Repeated that I wasn't n anyone's side. Have given three examples from 3 different jurnos that there is a push on.
.....

I did, and you said above in this thread, plain as night and day, no qualification, no doubt (my highlights below), as though established fact:

There is a reds v ARU power grab going on. Jim wants the CEO badge, others don't want him to have it. As a result they will vote against anyone aligned with the Reds getting power. I still think link was a chance til quadegate, now that chance seems unlikely unless they rip Quades contract up. Either way, link will be coach, Jim not CEO or Jim will be CEO & link won't be coach......

Now, lower down this thread and here, you start to quote '3 journos' (one of whom btw was just quoting 'the Sydney media', so just gossip within gossip') as though that is high verification that your earlier stated-as-though-certain-fact (see above) assertions must be right if '3 journos' are somehow mentioning them.

The inconsistencies in your highly varied approaches to argument within these fora are marked.

 

[RedsHappy]

It's not my intent. I never asked for hard evidence, I asked for an example. I said "have you seen his schedule" but honestly cyclo, having met me do you believe I actually expected a photocopy of his diary or that I was respinding to things such as "asleep at the wheel" or "missing half the time", equally overstated posts.

If by several articles on the Echo front you mean people writing about the problems at echo, alright. There are problems at echo. What I asked repeatedly for was examples of his involvement in echo affecting his work at the ARU, one article that contradicted itself was used and only one, I googled to and found nothing else on the matter.

.....

I can't vouch for your Googling WJ, but if perhaps you were able to spend more time on it you would have found at least 2 recent articles wherein W Smith in the The Australian drew his readers' attention to the fact that (as he tells it and paraphrasing) '...eyebrows and concerns in high positions in the ARU have been raised re JO'N's taking on the Echo Chair role...'.

So in fact they were/are journos of repute quoting senior ARU leaks re concerns at JO'N's major role at Echo. Journos as sources have manifestly suited your arguments in this thread, so let's let them perhaps somewhat dilute your strong arguments in others, purely on the grounds of logical consistency. Then we have other reputable journos (E Knight, Fairfax) from the Echo angle quoting leaks that JO'N is ruling the roost at Echo and 'running it like a fiefdom'.

 

[Gagger]

Cooper probably sounded off a few senior officials from the Reds (and perhaps within the ARU as well) prior to his toxic avenger episode. They may have displayed empathy towards his position which emboldened him to twit. I don't think anyone would have actually recommended he do so though.

If it happened, I reckon it would have happened like that.

One thing's for certain, there will be more than one group of plotters circling this prize carcass - to think that isn't happening is naive. (for example - I hear that Andrew Fagan's CV as of this year looks pretty bloody glittering)

The trickiness is that JO'N - for whatever reason - has made Robbie a policy issue that requires taking him down as well. The World Cup was his out to distance from Deans and he didn't take it.

This doubles the complexity - you might be a great coaching candidate, but would you be the choice of the new CEO, and vice versa to some degree.

 

[Athilnaur]

I am not as close to the politics as some but I think people here over engineer things.

7 years is a long time. Deans should get a shot at the Lions. Win, he gets RWC 2015. Lose, he's done.

Nucifora actually strikes me as a good administrator. Interim coach ok. But his real strength imo is structure and policy.

McKenzie for next coach, foreigners are a mistake at that level.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I don't fully know the ins and outs of the bad blood between Link and JO'N; it could stem back to the player revolt days when the code first went pro - or perhaps it was later when Link was with Eddie, who JO'N is public as not being a fan of. Whatever the reason, I DO know it's "over my dead body" for JO'N re: Link.

If what you say above is on the money Gags, then the petty politics that plague Australian rugby strike again. For as long as I've been following the game, the political machinations at the ARU have alternated between tragedy and farce. If JON is so anti-Link to the point that our best provincial coach and most credentialled candidate is no chance for the top job then he needs to either resign or excuse himself from the selection process.

I cannot believe the top echelons of the ARU would behave in such an amateur fashion but nothing that comes out of St Leonards surprises me any more. And let's face it, that situation wouldn't be without precedent, as Alan Jones and Bob Dwyer could attest to. I don't have a dog in the fight between NSW and QLD for control of the governing body, I just want what's best for the game and what we are getting out of these turkeys is definitely not that right now.

 

[Gagger]

I am not as close to the politics as some but I think people here overengineer

If you're referring to me then I've been told that "I still don't know the half of it".

There's more, not less.

 

[RedsHappy]

......I couldn't have got it any more directly from one of the involved parties mouths that Nuci is in line for the job as long as O'Neill is in charge. Why else did Nuci ever take this bizarre job he's had for 5 years?

I don't fully know the ins and outs of the bad blood between Link and JO'N; it could stem back to the player revolt days when the code first went pro - or perhaps it was later when Link was with Eddie, who JO'N is public as not being a fan of. Whatever the reason, I DO know it's "over my dead body" for JO'N re: Link.......

Gaggs, I have no reason to doubt what you say above.

But the words and their meaning if true should utterly appall every lover of the game. Frankly, if true, it disgusts me. And that has nothing whatsoever to do with liking Link or not.

The job of a community sports code-leading CEO should be nothing less than to ensure that the best possible candidates are available and nurtured to assume the national coaching role when possibly required at any future time. That's the core of the ethical responsibility that a business leader has to ensure he or she leaves their code in a far better place than that in which they found it, and JO'N has been CEO of the ARU for approximately 12 years in two stints. Factually a leader of that unusual longevity cannot escape the end state of the code so over-sighted, or the state of the local senior coaches available to lead it further forward in future.

If on the contrary a CEO is so brutally arrogant to allow his or her own historical peccadillos or prejudices to totally block (without extremely good, objective reasons) an obviously competent and qualified candidate for a national coach role, then that is nothing less than a leader who has, for vanity's sake, forsaken the very core of his or her duty to the sporting communities they represent, and the fans who effectively fund their very existence.

 

[Athilnaur]

Nah, my post got chopped by awful android kbd Gagger.

Ath.

 

[Gagger]

Gaggs, I have no reason to doubt what you say above.

But the words and their meaning if true should utterly appall every lover of the game. Frankly, if true, it disgusts me. And that has nothing whatsoever to do with liking Link or not.

The job of a community sports code-leading CEO should be nothing less than to ensure that the best possible candidates are available and nurtured to assume the national coaching role when possibly required at any future time. That's the core of the ethical responsibility that a business leader has to ensure he or she leaves their code in a far better place than that in which they found it, and JO'N has been CEO of the ARU for approximately 12 years in two stints. Factually a leader of that unusual longevity cannot escape the end state of the code so over-sighted, or the state of the local senior coaches available to lead it further forward in future.

If on the contrary a CEO is so brutally arrogant to allow his or her own historical peccadillos or prejudices to totally block (without extremely good, objective reasons) an obviously competent and qualified candidate for a national coach role, then that is nothing less than a leader who has, for vanity's sake, forsaken the very core of his or her duty to the sporting communities they represent, and the fans who effectively fund their very existence.

To offer some balance, if you read JO'Ns last book you'll see that it's certainly not just him who's played these games at the ARU forever - indeed he was the victim of them the last time around.

To paint him as the only protagonist in all of this would surely be unfair.

 

[RedsHappy]

To offer some balance, if you read JO'Ns last book you'll see that it's certainly not just him who's played these games at the ARU forever - indeed he was the victim of them the last time around.

To paint him as the only protagonist in all of this would surely be unfair.

I did not even attempt to 'paint him as the only protagonist'. But, please, let's all get one thing very clear, a CEO FFS is a CEO, he or she usually gains the highest prestige and the highest salary and individually has the highest responsibility for leadership of calibre, ethics and, of course, results and to ensure an enterprise is objectively enhanced under the period of over-sight.

A good CEO never makes excuses like 'I'm not the only manipulating bastard around, there are others worse then me'. Maybe for the bowls club, but not for a major code in 2012+.

If we love the game, in this century's brand of relentless sports professionalism, we cannot run just the standard of solely yearning for players of greatness, we must of necessity - so's to build something that's sound and growing as an entire enterprise - yearn just as much for leaders of the whole shebang that will make us (and then years later our kids) proud.

 

[Jiggles]

Gagger if what you say is true then I am utterly disgusted.

Whether you think Link is or isn't a good coach is not the issue. The issue is a coach is being put in place, who is just does not have the runs on the board, because of ones own Ego and political motives.

I don't understand how board members like Gregan (who does not like Nucifora), Eales and Robinson can let this happen. If they do this, with out due process, then the Wallabies Jumper is as good as mud.

 

[waratahjesus]

I can't vouch for your Googling WJ, but if perhaps you were able to spend more time on it you would have found at least 2 recent articles wherein W Smith in the The Australian drew his readers' attention to the fact that (as he tells it and paraphrasing) '.eyebrows and concerns in high positions in the ARU have been raised re JO'N's taking on the Echo Chair role.'.

So in fact they were/are journos of repute quoting senior ARU leaks re concerns at JO'N's major role at Echo. Journos as sources have manifestly suited your arguments in this thread, so let's let them perhaps somewhat dilute your strong arguments in others, purely on the grounds of logical consistency. Then we have other reputable journos (E Knight, Fairfax) from the Echo angle quoting leaks that JO'N is ruling the roost at Echo and 'running it like a fiefdom'.

I think people are putting words in my mouth, my argument has never been that JoN having 2 jobs is right, that both jobs don't take up time or that it's fine. I simply defended him against the over the top posts that suggested he was missing in action and that was the reason rugby is the way it is. I don't care if you agree with me or not, but there is a difference between obvious political play and saying someone is actively shunning respinsability in order to earn money elsewhere.

The articles I sighted directly mentioned what I was talking about. The articles about Echo never mention that JoN is giving any less to his ARU job, this was what I was questioning.

Then in this thread, maybe its just that my credibility is shot, but it would seem Gagger has the same info I do, and "you have no reason" to doubt him.

 

[jimmydubs]

my credibility is shot

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I can't vouch for your Googling WJ, but if perhaps you were able to spend more time on it you would have found at least 2 recent articles wherein W Smith in the The Australian drew his readers' attention to the fact that (as he tells it and paraphrasing) '.eyebrows and concerns in high positions in the ARU have been raised re JO'N's taking on the Echo Chair role.'.

So in fact they were/are journos of repute quoting senior ARU leaks re concerns at JO'N's major role at Echo. Journos as sources have manifestly suited your arguments in this thread, so let's let them perhaps somewhat dilute your strong arguments in others, purely on the grounds of logical consistency. Then we have other reputable journos (E Knight, Fairfax) from the Echo angle quoting leaks that JO'N is ruling the roost at Echo and 'running it like a fiefdom'.

Happy, every time I see you quote "running it like a fiefdom" my blood boils. Couldn't you use some code?
Could someone explain how it would be in QLDs interests to lose heir top 2 operational officials?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[waratahjesus]

Happy, every time I see you quote "running it like a fiefdom" my blood boils. Couldn't you use some code?
Could someone explain how it would be in QLDs interests to lose heir top 2 operational officials?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It's not up to the reds. Ewen is already moving on to a made up position, one designed to allow succession planning but also allow him to move onto the wallabies job without great interruption.

Jim is the best administrator of a super rugby team based on current success. The ARU job is available next year, it's really up to his ambition.

It isn't about the reds pushing for it to benefit them, it's about men with ambition and talent taking opportunity.

 

[redstragic]

I couldn't have got it any more directly from one of the involved parties mouths that Nuci is in line for the job as long as O'Neill is in charge. Why else did Nuci ever take this bizarre job he's had for 5 years?

I feel for Quade, he may have got swept into others machinations. Staying out of the work politics is a tough lesson to learn when young. He'll be better for it though. But with what you are saying who is to say the Wobs aren't more splintered with some of the others caught up in other players games.