NTS/Gold Squads

[Malcsy]

Actually, maybe "thrash the pants off" is a slight exaggeration but I'll resist the temptation to personalise the debate by sticking names up on the forum, and my argument was never meant to be that specific anyway...

 

[Parra GM]

Actually, maybe "thrash the pants off" is a slight exaggeration but I'll resist the temptation to personalise the debate by sticking names up on the forum, and my argument was never meant to be that specific anyway...

2 years ago the NSWRU selected a Western Sydney TIP side in the U15s. There were kids from 3 western sydney State Championship squads (Parra,Wests/Eastwood) to chose from at this TIP camp plus any other kid who was interested and lived in western sydney. The kids were beep tested and had athletic testing conducted by the NSWRU/ARU 'experts'. Only 6 kids in total from those 3 squads made the TIP team. The squad was selected in October or November and trained together for months. As a consequence of so few of the state champs kids making the tip squad, SJRU's Western Zone ran a program with volunteer coaches who consulted all of the State Championship coaches asking for nominations. Invitations to train were then issued to the list, again in consultation with the coaches at the coal face. They trained together for a few weeks. At the end of the year, these 2 sides played a match. The Western Zone side FLOGGED the TIP squad by 8 tries to 1.

Following Malcsy's lead, I wont name these players. But rest assured it was a belting of the highest order. The TIP program picked kids who were gifted athletes. The Western Zone guys picked kids who were gifted rugby players.

I can only hope that the selection process for TIP changed after that result.........................

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

Actually, maybe "thrash the pants off" is a slight exaggeration but I'll resist the temptation to personalise the debate by sticking names up on the forum, and my argument was never meant to be that specific anyway...

A good response from somene who makes general comments about a programme they really don't know a great deal about or the kids that are involved. I would suggest that players like Jim Stewart, Cam Clarke and Waldo Wessels (GPS, CAS and CHS) are very suitable participants in the NTS

 

[Malcsy]

Who said they weren't ? My point of debate is there are players missed who shouldn't be... Anyone picked for NTS will be a bloody good player, but from what I have seen and heard the system is far from perfect. Judging by this thread, I am not alone in this view. But given we obviously don't know a great deal, we must be wrong so who gives a (expletive) what we think ? I will bow to your superior knowledge and look forward to future years of Wallaby dominance

 

[I like to watch]

One last question I'd like to ask?
Why is it that all 'graduates' of the nts all end up at Sydney Uni? Is there a kick back to the coaches of nts? Who did the nts coaching staff play their rugby for?

No, it's because Uni offer them $20k+ packages to play there.
Uni do also offer the best facilities & coaching & the best chance of a pro contract in the years ahead.
Why would any kid knock this back?

 

[Parra GM]

No, it's because Uni offer them $20k+ packages to play there.
Uni do also offer the best facilities & coaching & the best chance of a pro contract in the years ahead.
Why would any kid knock this back?

All funded by the tax payers dollar! A completely uneven playing field IMO.

 

[Stands]

I think the funding has more to do with corporate sponsorship than tax payer's dollars.

 

[Parra GM]

I think the funding has more to do with corporate sponsorship than tax payer's dollars.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I disagree though. No question they have a tremendous amount of corporate and individual support. However the free college fees are a tax payer provided advantage. IMO anyway

 

[CTPE]

I think you'll find that the USyd Colleges (eg Andrews, Pauls etc) are not govenment funded at all. Their income is generated from the residential fees paid by the students who reside there and the Colleges respective Foundations fundraising and investments.

 

[Grandstand]

I think you'll find that the USyd Colleges (eg Andrews, Pauls etc) are not govenment funded at all. Their income is generated from the residential fees paid by the students who reside there and the Colleges respective Foundations fundraising and investments.

Spot on. Fees are around 15/20k per annum for the residential colleges, however this is irrelevant as each college would accommodate no more than 5 rugby players. The whole debate is a nonsense, Uni players come from all over Sydney & pay fees if they attend Uni (often on HECS), just like every other student. Many study elsewhere or work, just like players at every other club. There are certainly no "free college fees". This is not a matter of opinion, just the facts.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I was hoping somebody with knowledge of Uni's setup would chip in with how their system works.

 

[Parra GM]

Spot on. Fees are around 15/20k per annum for the residential colleges, however this is irrelevant as each college would accommodate no more than 5 rugby players. The whole debate is a nonsense, Uni players come from all over Sydney & pay fees if they attend Uni (often on HECS), just like every other student. Many study elsewhere or work, just like players at every other club. There are certainly no "free college fees". This is not a matter of opinion, just the facts.

I can assure you that 2 former Parramatta juniors who play at Sydney Uni have free college fees provided to them. They reside in St Pauls. I wont name the players, but rest assured it is happening. As for the tuition fees, Grandstand is correct, it's all on hecs. We have no issue with that. The college fees are the accommodation fees. Essentially they are offering 20 grand to colt aged players. No club in Sydney, even Souths with all their $$$ from their mining billionaire benefactor, cant and dont compete with that.

And as I've said previously, it is an uneven playing field. Tax payer dollars do pay for the players they bring into the rugby club/cricket club/netball etc etc. Whether it is 100% college fees or 1%, the tax dollar funds it as Usyd receives $$$ from federal government to operate and upkeep the colleges.

 

[CTPE]

And as I've said previously, it is an uneven playing field. Tax payer dollars do pay for the players they bring into the rugby club/cricket club/netball etc etc. Whether it is 100% college fees or 1%, the tax dollar funds it as Usyd receives $$$ from federal government to operate and upkeep the colleges.

I think you'll find that the Usyd Colleges are all independently funded and don't receive any federal or state funds. They cover all their own operational and maintenance/repair costs.

 

[I like to watch]

Spot on. Fees are around 15/20k per annum for the residential colleges, however this is irrelevant as each college would accommodate no more than 5 rugby players. The whole debate is a nonsense, Uni players come from all over Sydney & pay fees if they attend Uni (often on HECS), just like every other student. Many study elsewhere or work, just like players at every other club. There are certainly no "free college fees". This is not a matter of opinion, just the facts.

Why is it irrelevant? by your reckoning there are 5 Rugby players per College. how many Colleges are there 5? that's $75 - $100k per College!
No one is even talking about those players receiving discounts on their tuition fees upwards of $6k per year.
It is a nonsense to say free bed & cheap tuition fees do nothing to attract players.Why else would Uni offer them?
It's a shame the hierarchy from Uni do not have faith in their superior facilities,coaching and better future prospects to attract players.
What have you won when you buy all the talent that plays for you when you are competing against teams that pay NO ONE.

 

[Parra GM]

I think you'll find that the Usyd Colleges are all independently funded and don't receive any federal or state funds. They cover all their own operational and maintenance/repair costs.

CTPE - I dont share your confidence thats correct. Particularly after what UWS tell us

 

[rugga10]

Tom Heslop , Benn Melrose , Guy Millar theres 3

I can assure you that 2 former Parramatta juniors who play at Sydney Uni have free college fees provided to them. They reside in St Pauls. I wont name the players, but rest assured it is happening. As for the tuition fees, Grandstand is correct, it's all on hecs. We have no issue with that. The college fees are the accommodation fees. Essentially they are offering 20 grand to colt aged players. No club in Sydney, even Souths with all their $$$ from their mining billionaire benefactor, cant and dont compete with that.

And as I've said previously, it is an uneven playing field. Tax payer dollars do pay for the players they bring into the rugby club/cricket club/netball etc etc. Whether it is 100% college fees or 1%, the tax dollar funds it as Usyd receives $$$ from federal government to operate and upkeep the colleges.

 

[CTPE]

CTPE - I dont share your confidence thats correct. Particularly after what UWS tell us

Extract from USyd website: "The residential colleges are affiliated with, but not owned by the University. Each one is run independently. They provide furnished rooms and meals"

So in essence if the players are receiving "free accomodation" as suggested isn't that something that many clubs have done to attract players over time? That said I personally I don't believe that any of the colleges give scholarships based on rugby ability alone. Most want boys who have good scholarly ability plus excel in other areas like music, drama and sports, particularly boys who are good at more than one sport. I know that the average ATAR for the fresher intake at one of the colleges last year was around 95.0.

In regards to the names rugga10 listed one of the boys mentioned got very close to a perfect ATAR (99.95) in the 2010 HSC and would have cruised into any college on a scholarship based on this alone.

Let's not forget also that USyd is also a highly desirable destination for school leavers to undertake tertiary study. The ATAR cut-offs for many of their courses are quite a bit higher than comparitive courses at other Unis in Sydney which evidences the high demand for places there. If you like your rugby, are good at it and attend USyd it makes sense that you might want to play rugby there given the social lives students and the rugby fraternity enjoy.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Let's not forget also that USyd is also a highly desirable destination for school leavers to undertake tertiary study. The ATAR cut-offs for many of their courses are quite a bit higher than comparitive courses at other Unis in Sydney which evidences the high demand for places there. If you like your rugby, are good at it and attend USyd it makes sense that you might want to play rugby there given the social lives students and the rugby fraternity enjoy.

That's pretty consistent with the rugby membership at most university clubs as far as I'm aware. It was certainly the case for myself and many other players/students at UWA when I was there.

 

[Lee Grant]

I was hoping somebody with knowledge of Uni's setup would chip in with how their system works.

Bruce has done this at length since he joined the forum. Maybe if he sees this he will give it another go for the newcomers in the last 12 months. Then in 12 months time he will have to do it again.

He certainly got me off my high horse on the matter.

 

[RugbyFuture]

Everyone knows St Pauls and St Johns are just extensions of the Private school systems at University though, would it really be unexpected?