Andrew Daley
Frank Row (1)
any real standouts from the teams?
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Sideline Eye
Darby Loudon (17)
Game 7 Result was CHS 29 d CAS 12 (it was CAS 7 until 2 minutes before full time).
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Brickbats and Bouquets Time:
What were the organisers thinking with the appointment of the Assistant Referees at Knox over the weekend? They would have been lucky if they were in year 8. It was entirely unreasonable to appoint them to games of this calibre.
That being said, the little lads displayed great maturity with many of their calls, the vast majority of which I agreed with. The poor little buggers copped some flack from some very ignorant parents and supporters at times. Very poor form from the parents and I am sure breaches every known code of conduct from whatever sports association. The little blighters were a credit to their parents. Well done you.
When there are half a hundred assistants running the BBQ and parking, why did they chose to expose the very young AR's to parental abuse? Is this not the showcase of Schools Rugby FFS?
When the Jarses did their AR and Foundation courses, we were told that it was normal practice that the referees were at least two years older than the participants. Applying that rule, the AR's should have been minimum year 12 kids.
I reiterate that I was impressed with the conduct and integrity of the AR's over the weekend. Not impressed with those that exposed those young boys to the pressure cooker, and uninformed parental abuse.
NOTE TO PARENTS. If you want to abuse the AR, then learn the rules and do the course first. Then shut up.
What were the organisers thinking with the appointment of the Assistant Referees at Knox over the weekend? They would have been lucky if they were in year 8. It was entirely unreasonable to appoint them to games of this calibre.
That being said, the little lads displayed great maturity with many of their calls, the vast majority of which I agreed with. The poor little buggers copped some flack from some very ignorant parents and supporters at times. Very poor form from the parents and I am sure breaches every known code of conduct from whatever sports association. The little blighters were a credit to their parents. Well done you.
When there are half a hundred assistants running the BBQ and parking, why did they chose to expose the very young AR's to parental abuse? Is this not the showcase of Schools Rugby FFS?
When the Jarses did their AR and Foundation courses, we were told that it was normal practice that the referees were at least two years older than the participants. Applying that rule, the AR's should have been minimum year 12 kids.
I reiterate that I was impressed with the conduct and integrity of the AR's over the weekend. Not impressed with those that exposed those young boys to the pressure cooker, and uninformed parental abuse.
NOTE TO PARENTS. If you want to abuse the AR, then learn the rules and do the course first. Then shut up.
whatever
Darby Loudon (17)
Don’t know if anyone can answer this query, but I believe there are 3 teams from NSW that enter the U16s national titles: being, NSW Schools, NSW junior rugby union (NSWJRU) and NSW country while Queensland enter 2 state based teams – Qld 1 & Qld 2 (selected from their schools & weekend comps).
The question is, is it possible that the 2nd and 4th best players in their position/s in NSW could miss out playing in the nationals and the 5th best player get a run?
The example would be say a fullback (position is irrelevant) is judged by the selectors to be the second best in NSW but only plays schoolboy union and the following list is how they are rated.
1: Joe – plays school and for country region
2: Fred – only plays school
3: Tom – plays school and for country region
4: Matt – plays school and for metro region
5: Sid – plays school and for country region.
In this case NSW schools have first choice, then NSW junior rugby union have second choice and Country have final choice. Now Joe (1) is selected for NSW schools, so Fred (2) misses out altogether, then Tom (3) is selected by NSWJRU, so now Matt (4) misses out, which leaves Sid (5) selected for the NSW country side at the nationals.
Now I know people will say there would be a compromise and it is unlikely etc etc etc, but it would only need to happen once or twice during the selection process to dilute the strength of the various teams.
If this scenario is possible, why don’t the selectors just choose NSW 1, NSW 2 & NSW 3 (or combined states) as they do in the U18s?
Queenslanders must laugh at the NSW system of selecting their sides.
The question is, is it possible that the 2nd and 4th best players in their position/s in NSW could miss out playing in the nationals and the 5th best player get a run?
The example would be say a fullback (position is irrelevant) is judged by the selectors to be the second best in NSW but only plays schoolboy union and the following list is how they are rated.
1: Joe – plays school and for country region
2: Fred – only plays school
3: Tom – plays school and for country region
4: Matt – plays school and for metro region
5: Sid – plays school and for country region.
In this case NSW schools have first choice, then NSW junior rugby union have second choice and Country have final choice. Now Joe (1) is selected for NSW schools, so Fred (2) misses out altogether, then Tom (3) is selected by NSWJRU, so now Matt (4) misses out, which leaves Sid (5) selected for the NSW country side at the nationals.
Now I know people will say there would be a compromise and it is unlikely etc etc etc, but it would only need to happen once or twice during the selection process to dilute the strength of the various teams.
If this scenario is possible, why don’t the selectors just choose NSW 1, NSW 2 & NSW 3 (or combined states) as they do in the U18s?
Queenslanders must laugh at the NSW system of selecting their sides.
random2
Johnnie Wallace (23)
I think if a player was good enough theyd find a way for him to compete. For example if Jack is the best 15 in NSW and plays both School and Club and Bill is second best and plays just School then Schools would let Club have Jack and take Bill. Theyd then find a way to even it out in another position, say Max is the best 2 in NSW and plays both and Lachie is next best and plays both then Club would let Schools have Max and take Lachie. Overall its a stupid system, surely they could pick a mix of School, Club and Country selectors who could go to all 3 carnivals and pick a NSW 1s and 2s and one year let Clubs coach 1s and Schools coach 2s then swap. I know thats what most of the boys want anyway.
whatever
Darby Loudon (17)
Seems logical but there would be a need for an additional team to make up the numbers in Division 1, that is why I suggested NSW 3 or combined states.
Rugby Mum
Watty Friend (18)
So Whatever -Let me get this -
NSW Schools have the pick of the cream and then Sydney both of which have access to a huge talent pool and lastly NSW Country which covers the largest area of rural land.
Lets say they have their team picked and schools pull their front rowers where do they replace them with across such a vast area? Who says Schools is the best so should choose the best of all 3 bodies. What happens to the boys choice. Lets say child Tom is in the Country Team has been for 3 years - named Captain ready for the nationals
Gets through the school comp (to miss more school like most 16 year old boys.) Gets spotted by the schools - they want him he has no choice in the matter.... I see this as one sure way to destroy rugby for this age group. Since when did playing rugby with your mates become a dictatorship? Who put schools on top of the Ladder? Isn't the best pathway for the kid the one he chooses to suit him, his family and his level. I think the kids still need to be given the choice. Select a team for schools, notify the selected kids and the kids that crossover in the 2 pathways, ask them first?
Rugby ultimately is about the player - I say all three associations allow the ARU to do the selections and take all this politics out of it... But i don't think any of the NSW Schools, NSW Country Or Sydney want to relinquish the power to choose....
whatever
Darby Loudon (17)
As all 16 year olds go to school (well the majority anyway)- NSW schools gets to pick from the weekend rugby warriors plus the leaguies, NSWJRU (not Sydney) get to chose weekend players from all over the state, Country get to chose weekend players from those away from Sydney metro area. It doesn't make sense - should be NSW1, NSW2 and NSW3 (or combined states).
10to12
Jimmy Flynn (14)
Agree totally but the politcal powers to be will not hand over their powers to the ARU, just yet. The "majority" of the boys are able to be picked in either of the two teams Sydney /Schools.
The dual code boys mainly CCC and CHS do have only the schools option in the majority of cases. Where the dual code boys are missing week in week out hard rugby this will show up on the field as was shown IMO on the weekend. Not withstanding some great athletic performances but eventually the structure of rugby won out.
The boys who win on this set up are the country boys who I believe would be nearly shut out with the city politics working against them. I love seeing the country boys involved as their commitment to rugby is way above the city boys .( Travel, team numbers . comps etc). This allows their best to compete with the best and hopefully keeps them on the rugby pathway. At the end of the day I would love to beat Qland every year as the !5s did last year but it still only 16s and its about the journey not the destination at this stage.
The dual code boys mainly CCC and CHS do have only the schools option in the majority of cases. Where the dual code boys are missing week in week out hard rugby this will show up on the field as was shown IMO on the weekend. Not withstanding some great athletic performances but eventually the structure of rugby won out.
The boys who win on this set up are the country boys who I believe would be nearly shut out with the city politics working against them. I love seeing the country boys involved as their commitment to rugby is way above the city boys .( Travel, team numbers . comps etc). This allows their best to compete with the best and hopefully keeps them on the rugby pathway. At the end of the day I would love to beat Qland every year as the !5s did last year but it still only 16s and its about the journey not the destination at this stage.
Hugie
Ted Fahey (11)
10to12,
Thoroughly agree, to get a high level of rugby:
- To commit to rugby first.
- Play lots of hard rugby week in week out.
Until then just have fun playing rugby, it's a good sport.
10to12
Jimmy Flynn (14)
Hugie. Agreed. A lot of people loose sight that colts is the start of adult rugby. The schoolboy adulation, politics, etc are all washed away and its the boys willing to do the hard slog that eventually get there. Mind you Uni scholarships and financial incentives are a good start for a lot of the schoolboy stars. Wish they were around 40 years ago. LOL
Newbie
Bill McLean (32)
Re: Post of Hugh Jarse @ #85
HJ and others,
Take yourself to a junior club rugby league game just for the repulsive experience of referee abuse! Such behaviour is bloody rife, and all in brawls are a common thing TBH! I actually seen one on the weekend which involved the infamous 'Greenacre Tigers'!
I do hope I am wrong but you will probably find that the majority of abuse probably came from CHS and CCC parents who have sons playing league. I am sorry to be saying this but it is actually second nature!
As stated above such conduct is common place in league, however I will note that referees and their assistants are actually paid for the their time at the junior level; doesn't excuse the conduct though!
PS - Before anyone acusses me of bias I am actually a promoter of rugby lads playing league and vice versa. I emphatically believe that cross-polination is benefits rugby, look at the NSW firsts back-line which supports my theory!
HJ and others,
Take yourself to a junior club rugby league game just for the repulsive experience of referee abuse! Such behaviour is bloody rife, and all in brawls are a common thing TBH! I actually seen one on the weekend which involved the infamous 'Greenacre Tigers'!
I do hope I am wrong but you will probably find that the majority of abuse probably came from CHS and CCC parents who have sons playing league. I am sorry to be saying this but it is actually second nature!
As stated above such conduct is common place in league, however I will note that referees and their assistants are actually paid for the their time at the junior level; doesn't excuse the conduct though!
PS - Before anyone acusses me of bias I am actually a promoter of rugby lads playing league and vice versa. I emphatically believe that cross-polination is benefits rugby, look at the NSW firsts back-line which supports my theory!
whatever
Darby Loudon (17)
Whilst I normally agree with your commentary Newbie, I am blown away by such a generalisation. I was at the U16s championships for most of Saturday and can honestly say I did not hear any outrageous abuse, Some groans and mumbling when a ref would make an error or wrong call; but nothing over the top.
The ARs or linesmen were to young, they must have been at the most about 12 years old - while I applaud these young fellows having a go, they should not have been put in that situation - it was poorly organised by the tournament officials - they should have been at least older then the players.
So to the grandmother screamer - "Go CC or C'mon CC or blue" - that is her right as long as there was no foul language or abuse of the officials - more power to proud parents or in this case proud grandparent cheering long, hard and loud for their child or his team.
Next we will be complaining the Welsh supporters should not have be allowed to be so loud in support of their team, because Wallaby supporters sat there like stunned mullets.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Newbie,
Been across to the Dark Side from time to time. Not all that impressed, and have observed what you have discussed above, and worse. Been at a multi field suburban oval once where the Police attended the other field after Dad started really belting up his 12 year old son at the half time huddle for what he perceived was poor play by his boy. Most team parents stood idly by doing nothing. Child eventually ran away across the oval to escape. Fortunately Fat Dad couldn't catch up. Female Team manager from the opposition was the only person close by ready to intervene.
Didn't Oscar Wilde claim that Rugby was a good activity to keep 30 bullies away from the town centre (or words to the same general effect). Oscar lived in the days before mungoball.
That being said, I'm pretty sure some of the Pearls and Leather patches were also giving the Match Officials some "assistance" and "feedback" from time to time over the weekend as well as group you identified. The level of assistance offered was inversely proportional to the size of the lead that little Oliver and Tarquin's team had at that time.
Been across to the Dark Side from time to time. Not all that impressed, and have observed what you have discussed above, and worse. Been at a multi field suburban oval once where the Police attended the other field after Dad started really belting up his 12 year old son at the half time huddle for what he perceived was poor play by his boy. Most team parents stood idly by doing nothing. Child eventually ran away across the oval to escape. Fortunately Fat Dad couldn't catch up. Female Team manager from the opposition was the only person close by ready to intervene.
Didn't Oscar Wilde claim that Rugby was a good activity to keep 30 bullies away from the town centre (or words to the same general effect). Oscar lived in the days before mungoball.
That being said, I'm pretty sure some of the Pearls and Leather patches were also giving the Match Officials some "assistance" and "feedback" from time to time over the weekend as well as group you identified. The level of assistance offered was inversely proportional to the size of the lead that little Oliver and Tarquin's team had at that time.
WHO'S ON FIRST ???????????
Can anyone please confirm when the 1,2 or 3 teams are selected ?
Newbie
Bill McLean (32)
Whatever,
Yes it is a generalisiation but it is one given from years of attending both rugby and league representative carnivals. But you're right it probably is being overly stereotypical; my apologies! As stated before I am a NSWCCC supporter.
Nevertheless let me add that Last year I attended the CHS trials out at UWS (I believe) and listened as referees and touch judges were the subjects of unwarranted attention. What I really found out of place was the call to players "line em' up; free hit". These comments are normally what I hear at league games.
On a final note I attended last years U/16 trials and listened to one CCC male supporter constantly level abuse at the refs performance; it got so bad I actually had to ask him to tone it down as we weren't at a league game! I'll give you one guess what he said to me!
whatever
Darby Loudon (17)
No, his on second. 'WTF', no, his on third. Gotta luv it
Believe they select NSW Schools, NSWJRU & NSW country; after the regionals - about 2 weeks
whatever
Darby Loudon (17)
The one that gets to me at junior league games these days: is the "f--kin whack 'em" comment that seems to continue while that spectator's team is in defence.
Glad you agree your comments were somewhat over the top. If there was abuse at the championships, it could have been just as likely to come from GPS, CAS, IAS as from CCC and CHS supporters. Who knows, but it shouldn't be tolerated.
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