NSW Suburban Rugby 2012

[ON85]

Getting way beyond a joke now....

At a meeting last week in the city where pretty solid knowledge that their preferred first grade coach was offerred some very significant dollars

There must be more young Aussie males falling under tables at Oktoberfest and pissing bulls off in Pamploma than I thought

 

[Funky]

The 1st div coach who went on to be President from a few years back did some damage playing favourites. Hope they get it sorted, some good work done a few years ago when you were feilding 7 teams

That was / is one problem with Waverley, but that isn't why we're in the situation we're in now.

It was what stupidly happened with 4th Grade a few years back that killed things. With good intention, the committee tried to do something that would bring back a lot of our older former players. Unfortunately it got hijacked by people with other other intentions.

I'll shut up about it now...

 

[XVProps]

Its just a personal opinion but the gap between 1st Div and second Div is growing. Clubs that have been promoted have struggled to stay up (Knox being the exception really) in 2007 Bobs went up and came straight back down. Same thing with Kings in 2008. Lindfield managed to stay up for two seasons, and Bobs are in their second year up there. Whats the point of these clubs going up there, getting belted by clubs who pay their players, going back down and players leave in droves?????

From one of the other topics Kings are in desperate need of players and coaches. Why doestry clubs by playing against semi professional teams?

In saying that, full credit to Brothers. They had a tough year in 2010 that saw them end up in Div 4. They did what they had to do and attracted some quality players. They ended up with 2 out of 3 teams finishing as premiers and now they can look to build on that!

I just think that if you want to have a strong comp then everyone needs to be on the same page!

Im sure some will say that its a battle of the fittest, but do you really want a 6 team 1st Div comp with just Pats, Colleagues, Dirty Reds, C/Town, Knox and Mosman????

Plus how long will these benefactors or sponsors stick around, what happens when they pull their money, will these clubs just fold?

Ozzie, I can assure you that out of the clubs you mentioned, C/Town do not pay their players, as for the others I don't know.


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[SteveMerrick]

Ozzie, I can assure you that out of the clubs you mentioned, C/Town do not pay their players, as for the others I don't know.


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I can assure you that Colleagues do not pay players either... I actually think the talk of payments in Subbies is overdone - where payments do occur is usually where a clubs (or persons within the club) have unfounded ambitions. The challenge in Division One is harder than just putting a competitive Kentwell Cup side on the park it is establishing 6 or 7 senior sides and a colts side that are all competitive.

 

[Ozzie Bob]

Ozzie, I can assure you that out of the clubs you mentioned, C/Town do not pay their players, as for the others I don't know.


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I am well aware that Campbeltown dont pay their players. They have done very well over the last 10 years to get to Div 1 and stay there!!!!

 

[Prodigy]

I can assure you that Colleagues do not pay players either... I actually think the talk of payments in Subbies is overdone - where payments do occur is usually where a clubs (or persons within the club) have unfounded ambitions. The challenge in Division One is harder than just putting a competitive Kentwell Cup side on the park it is establishing 6 or 7 senior sides and a colts side that are all competitive.

My information is that certain players have been beneficiaries of some very good deals with sponsors and the like for playing for Colleagues.

 

[XVProps]

Good thread gents, we'll keep this going through the 2012 season.


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[Ozzie Bob]

Even though im in London, ill be keeping a very close eye on it all!

Must say full credit to subbies for having the scores and tables updated by 7pm on a Saturday! Great to check out how everyone has got on!

 

[XVProps]

I can assure you that Colleagues do not pay players either... I actually think the talk of payments in Subbies is overdone - where payments do occur is usually where a clubs (or persons within the club) have unfounded ambitions. The challenge in Division One is harder than just putting a competitive Kentwell Cup side on the park it is establishing 6 or 7 senior sides and a colts side that are all competitive.

Mate, I agree. The main issue is filling 5 grades and colts, especially on away games. To date we haven't had any major problems with this ourselves, but I reckon your always only a season away from struggling with numbers. As for playing against clubs who allegedly pay, you just play the 15 in front of you. What else can you do?

 

[SteveMerrick]

My information is that certain players have been beneficiaries of some very good deals with sponsors and the like for playing for Colleagues.

I suspect your information is incorrect, whilst Colleagues will assist with finding employment and utilising their wide network they do not pay players. They are the only club in First Division that has never been relegated and have contested every Kentwell Cup competition since inception, last year they won all five senior grades which bettered their effort in 1996 when they won 4 out 5 senior grades, they have consistently been a leading performer in Subbies for close to 80 years. That they dont pay players is a secret of their longevity in first division subbies, the like sof Chatswood, Hunters Hill, Hornbsy etc. all started paying players in the mid 90's - early 2000's in first division and had some level of success in Kentwell Cup but ultimately those clubs imploded and have had significant challenges in rebubilding - Hunters Hill are now back in first division but again appear to be repeating past mistakes - though their junior base is significantly stronger than it ever has been. Colleagues have a pretty good idea of what works in Subbies and their formula notwithstanding some years where they have been found wanting but have managed to remain in 1st division, Old Ignations are currently a club who are clinging to survival in first division but not long ago they were the dominant force in all grades in first division they will rebuild and be dominant again.

 

[Ozzie Bob]

I suspect your information is incorrect, whilst Colleagues will assist with finding employment and utilising their wide network they do not pay players. They are the only club in First Division that has never been relegated and have contested every Kentwell Cup competition since inception, last year they won all five senior grades which bettered their effort in 1996 when they won 4 out 5 senior grades, they have consistently been a leading performer in Subbies for close to 80 years. That they dont pay players is a secret of their longevity in first division subbies, the like sof Chatswood, Hunters Hill, Hornbsy etc. all started paying players in the mid 90's - early 2000's in first division and had some level of success in Kentwell Cup but ultimately those clubs imploded and have had significant challenges in rebubilding - Hunters Hill are now back in first division but again appear to be repeating past mistakes - though their junior base is significantly stronger than it ever has been. Colleagues have a pretty good idea of what works in Subbies and their formula notwithstanding some years where they have been found wanting but have managed to remain in 1st division, Old Ignations are currently a club who are clinging to survival in first division but not long ago they were the dominant force in all grades in first division they will rebuild and be dominant again.

What has happened to Iggies, do they have a strong relationship with the school?

 

[SteveMerrick]

What has happened to Iggies, do they have a strong relationship with the school?

Absolutely - they are affiliated with the Old Boys Union and in teh last 20 years have seen some very good old boys play for the club - the likes of Tim Noonan, Nick Hill, Richie Maher, Tim Eisenhour, Rob Palmer (before and after TV fame) they also pick up some very talented ex Joeys boys and have had plenty of good protestant recruits over the years.

 

[Ozzie Bob]

Absolutely - they are affiliated with the Old Boys Union and in teh last 20 years have seen some very good old boys play for the club - the likes of Tim Noonan, Nick Hill, Richie Maher, Tim Eisenhour, Rob Palmer (before and after TV fame) they also pick up some very talented ex Joeys boys and have had plenty of good protestant recruits over the years.

So why then have they been struggling in 1st grade for the last few years?

Full credit too them though, they always have great depth! Lower grades and colts are always strong!

Has there ever been a Joey's Old Boys team, or do they all end up at HH?

 

[Funky]

I suspect your information is incorrect, whilst Colleagues will assist with finding employment and utilising their wide network they do not pay players. They are the only club in First Division that has never been relegated and have contested every Kentwell Cup competition since inception, last year they won all five senior grades which bettered their effort in 1996 when they won 4 out 5 senior grades, they have consistently been a leading performer in Subbies for close to 80 years. That they dont pay players is a secret of their longevity in first division subbies, the like sof Chatswood, Hunters Hill, Hornbsy etc. all started paying players in the mid 90's - early 2000's in first division and had some level of success in Kentwell Cup but ultimately those clubs imploded and have had significant challenges in rebubilding - Hunters Hill are now back in first division but again appear to be repeating past mistakes - though their junior base is significantly stronger than it ever has been. Colleagues have a pretty good idea of what works in Subbies and their formula notwithstanding some years where they have been found wanting but have managed to remain in 1st division, Old Ignations are currently a club who are clinging to survival in first division but not long ago they were the dominant force in all grades in first division they will rebuild and be dominant again.

I've no idea if Colleagues pay their players or not (I've never even thought about it before), but they certainly do make the most of their various networks to make a strong club. Whether you'd want to play for them, that is another matter, and that is why Waves and Colleagues, whilst physically close are very different. Waves could certainly learn from Colleagues, and Colleagues from Waves, but more is needed of the former, and until that happens Waves won't be making it back up in Div 1.

I totally agree with your point about playing players. At this level it is a zero sum game. At some point, it is going to cost you (and not the stupid amount of dollars you'd have to pay out), and in ways you wouldn't necessarily expect.

 

[Ozzie Bob]

How did both clubs (Waves and Collegaues) fair when they were both in Div 1 and competing for players?

 

[SteveMerrick]

How did both clubs (Waves and Collegaues) fair when they were both in Div 1 and competing for players?

They both survived on vastly different recruitment pools and demographics so rarely did they ever clash in recruitment, Waverley in the 80's and 90's had a closer relationship with the College and the community they serve didnt have the same influx of travellers that they provide for now, they had some great players and always turned out a very hard edged forward pack.

 

[Funky]

They both survived on vastly different recruitment pools and demographics so rarely did they ever clash in recruitment, Waverley in the 80's and 90's had a closer relationship with the College and the community they serve didnt have the same influx of travellers that they provide for now, they had some great players and always turned out a very hard edged forward pack.

This is pretty spot on. I only came in at the last two years of Waves being in Div 1, and Waverley was definitely on the decline then, and Colleagues very high up. Because we were on the decline, numbers became tough in the latter half of the season. But had Waves had a sufficiently strong Committee, they could have easily turned it around. How we bounced back the next two years was proof to that.

Waverley started out with strong links to the College, then it moved into Kiwi's. The Kiwi's still make up a significant proportion of the club now, but the dominant thing is now ex-pat Pomes / Irish / Frenchies and a few Scots. Obviously you get a relatively high turn over, but many of these people stay a few years. But Waves definitely needs to build it's local / native links. The last two seasons where we were fielding Colts, it was obvious there was some talent there, and that talent was moving on to the higher grades. If we could have got another couple of seasons of Colts, we'd have broken the back of our Colts recruitment issues and also be having those guys making up the numbers higher up.

The other problem for Waverley, is that we are just shocking travellers. We can be the best team at home in the competition, but the worst away. Some improvements recently though.

 

[Rhys]

Finally subbies rugby site is fixed. No div 4 and no sydney harlequins listed anywhere...

 

[Ozzie Bob]

There is no mention of St George either!

I cant believe a month out from the start of the season they haven't got their act together!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I suspect your information is incorrect, whilst Colleagues will assist with finding employment and utilising their wide network they do not pay players. They are the only club in First Division that has never been relegated and have contested every Kentwell Cup competition since inception, last year they won all five senior grades which bettered their effort in 1996 when they won 4 out 5 senior grades, they have consistently been a leading performer in Subbies for close to 80 years. That they dont pay players is a secret of their longevity in first division subbies, the like sof Chatswood, Hunters Hill, Hornbsy etc. all started paying players in the mid 90's - early 2000's in first division and had some level of success in Kentwell Cup but ultimately those clubs imploded and have had significant challenges in rebubilding - Hunters Hill are now back in first division but again appear to be repeating past mistakes - though their junior base is significantly stronger than it ever has been. Colleagues have a pretty good idea of what works in Subbies and their formula notwithstanding some years where they have been found wanting but have managed to remain in 1st division, Old Ignations are currently a club who are clinging to survival in first division but not long ago they were the dominant force in all grades in first division they will rebuild and be dominant again.

I gather there is no love lost between hunters hill juniors and seniors


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