EVERYFWDTHINKTHEYREA6OR7
Syd Malcolm (24)
I don't reckon it's bad at all. If these clubs have only one team then it may encourage them to form more teams.
NSW Suburban Rugby 2012
- Thread starter Prodigy
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I don't reckon it's bad at all. If these clubs have only one team then it may encourage them to form more teams.
Done that
Ron Walden (29)
There are times when some Shute Shield clubs have too many players , e.g. may have enough players to form 7 or more grade teams.
These guys in general , often don't want to play with a Subdistrict club or go to another district club & want to continue training with the senior club & so to accommodate them , the Shute Shield club enters a team or two
in the subbies.
The bottom line is that people are playing Rugby.
Prodigy
Ron Walden (29)
And let's be perfectly honest - this isn't a problem of that team being too strong fro the rest of the competition. Norths, I'm sure, would much rather have a strong 4th Grade team, then win a Meldrum Cup (Division 6 Subbies) title. Not to disrespect any of our Div 6 friends.
OK so let's talk about Chabal.
Is this a good thing for Subbies rugby? For Balmain as a club?
I would say so. Great press. Not sure how much $$$ it would cost to get him though. As a regular player I would certainly be asking how much was spent for 1 non-comp match, but if it isn't a monstrous sum then I reckon its fine. Effectively a free advertising campaign for the club.
I do feel a bit pissed as a committee member of a rival 2nd div club, but that is more jealousy.
.
Is this a good thing for Subbies rugby? For Balmain as a club?
I would say so. Great press. Not sure how much $$$ it would cost to get him though. As a regular player I would certainly be asking how much was spent for 1 non-comp match, but if it isn't a monstrous sum then I reckon its fine. Effectively a free advertising campaign for the club.
I do feel a bit pissed as a committee member of a rival 2nd div club, but that is more jealousy.
.
Funky
Frank Nicholson (4)
Ok, I'm going to wade into this discussion. But I'll say something upfront. I'm a member of Waverley, and was a former Committee Member of the Club, so my opinions are coloured by that experience.
Subbies is currently an amateur comp (as per its rules, articles of association etc). Any club paying its players or coaches is cheating. No questions about it. But this seems to be commonly accepted which is odd considering there was a recent survey conducted by Subbies of all Clubs, and there was overwhelming support from Clubs that Subbies should remain an amateur competition.
Notwithstanding the rules, I personally don't have a problem with paying coaches something, but I disagree with paying players in Subbies Rugby> Why? For many reasons, the main one being, it changes the whole dynamic of the Club. Do these Clubs that pay their players (assuming only some of them), charge subs to the lower grade players? I'd be pretty pissed off if as a lower grade player my subs were effectively being used to pay other players to take potential higher grade positions away from them. Especially when these types of players will likely fluck off elsewhere when the going gets tough (by whatever measure), then leaving the club in a whole world of sh|te. Subbies is fundamentally a social competition.
In my time, Waverley has never paid any of its players or coaches. Even if we could have afforded it we would not have.
Anyway, on to other points.
2012 for Waverley should be a great year, after a few very tough years (note I'm not saying this will be seen on the pitch, but definitely off the pitch), mainly because they new freakin grand stand has been built (I think it would be hard to argue that this will be one of the best facilities in Subbies Rugby, if not the Shute Shield). As Waverley has also secured access (and long term tenure), it gives Waverley its first true Clubrooms in a very long time. The opportunity this creates for the Club is massive. They can change the whole way the Club operates, and not have to rely on the benefactory of fickle sponsors. But here is hoping it is a relatively dry year, so they can make the most of it, and not be bumped to Oval #2.
The other benefit with the Pavilion now being rebuilt, is the club can seriously focus on getting the standard of Oval #2 improved. Understandably a lot of people hate Oval #2. It is a terrible ground, by any measure, but at least Council doesn't close the thing, and playing on there is better than playing on a wet weather weekend in my opinion. Other clubs say it isn't safe, but having looked at the stats from my time, Waverley had no more or less injuries when we played on #2.
Will Waverley be a force to be reckoned with? Not likely for awhile. The real strength of Waverley is that it can always attract a large number of itinerant players, courtesy of our location. Our weakness is a lack of Colts. The years we have had Colts, we've always seen some very good players come up to make up the numbers in 1st and 2nd Grade. We just struggle like buggery to get them and keep them. We typically find a player to recruit around, which gets you through a season or two, but unless you find one of those every year, you're always going to struggle. As a club with many other fires to put out, the effort just hasn't historically been put into this.
As to Shute Shield Clubs.
Considering they have full time staff, I've always been pretty disappointed in how they are run. Just look at some of their crappy websites, with information a few years out of date. I think they could learn a lot of things from Subbies Clubs.
Subbies is currently an amateur comp (as per its rules, articles of association etc). Any club paying its players or coaches is cheating. No questions about it. But this seems to be commonly accepted which is odd considering there was a recent survey conducted by Subbies of all Clubs, and there was overwhelming support from Clubs that Subbies should remain an amateur competition.
Notwithstanding the rules, I personally don't have a problem with paying coaches something, but I disagree with paying players in Subbies Rugby> Why? For many reasons, the main one being, it changes the whole dynamic of the Club. Do these Clubs that pay their players (assuming only some of them), charge subs to the lower grade players? I'd be pretty pissed off if as a lower grade player my subs were effectively being used to pay other players to take potential higher grade positions away from them. Especially when these types of players will likely fluck off elsewhere when the going gets tough (by whatever measure), then leaving the club in a whole world of sh|te. Subbies is fundamentally a social competition.
In my time, Waverley has never paid any of its players or coaches. Even if we could have afforded it we would not have.
Anyway, on to other points.
2012 for Waverley should be a great year, after a few very tough years (note I'm not saying this will be seen on the pitch, but definitely off the pitch), mainly because they new freakin grand stand has been built (I think it would be hard to argue that this will be one of the best facilities in Subbies Rugby, if not the Shute Shield). As Waverley has also secured access (and long term tenure), it gives Waverley its first true Clubrooms in a very long time. The opportunity this creates for the Club is massive. They can change the whole way the Club operates, and not have to rely on the benefactory of fickle sponsors. But here is hoping it is a relatively dry year, so they can make the most of it, and not be bumped to Oval #2.
The other benefit with the Pavilion now being rebuilt, is the club can seriously focus on getting the standard of Oval #2 improved. Understandably a lot of people hate Oval #2. It is a terrible ground, by any measure, but at least Council doesn't close the thing, and playing on there is better than playing on a wet weather weekend in my opinion. Other clubs say it isn't safe, but having looked at the stats from my time, Waverley had no more or less injuries when we played on #2.
Will Waverley be a force to be reckoned with? Not likely for awhile. The real strength of Waverley is that it can always attract a large number of itinerant players, courtesy of our location. Our weakness is a lack of Colts. The years we have had Colts, we've always seen some very good players come up to make up the numbers in 1st and 2nd Grade. We just struggle like buggery to get them and keep them. We typically find a player to recruit around, which gets you through a season or two, but unless you find one of those every year, you're always going to struggle. As a club with many other fires to put out, the effort just hasn't historically been put into this.
As to Shute Shield Clubs.
Considering they have full time staff, I've always been pretty disappointed in how they are run. Just look at some of their crappy websites, with information a few years out of date. I think they could learn a lot of things from Subbies Clubs.
Funky
Frank Nicholson (4)
Was going to raise that!
In my opinion, Balmain, with the using of Chabal / Giteau / Mitchell are treading a very fine line when they do things like this. Overall to date, I think it has been great for them, the teams they play against and Subbies Rugby in general, but one day it could come back and bite them on the ar.se if they're not careful.
These things only work when you've got all your other ducks in a row (a strong vibrant and healthy club), and Balmain certainly seem to have that.
Funky
Frank Nicholson (4)
UNSW has remodelled grounds. Not sure what they are like compared with their old ones. Their old stand was fantastic, but the Canteen was in an awkward position.
Otherwise, grounds that are generally good. Colleagues / Newport / Blue Mountains. All different from what Waves now has, but they have the fundamental ingredients (close to the ground, view over the oval etc).
Otherwise, grounds that are generally good. Colleagues / Newport / Blue Mountains. All different from what Waves now has, but they have the fundamental ingredients (close to the ground, view over the oval etc).
grievous
Johnnie Wallace (23)
Not if contained in the lower division, ie 6th, players at that level desrve a game because Grade cant afford to put them in a team
grievous
Johnnie Wallace (23)
Liverpool?The team that dropped spectacuarly from Div 2 to Div 6?
Alexandria? Mmmmm Im sceptical, where are they playing? It its a national themed team they wont last, they never do
mark_s
Chilla Wilson (44)
There have been south sydney based teams on and off over the years, don't they usually play at waterloo oval and I presume they have the duke in Waterloo as their watering hole/sponsor. Maybe one of the existing clubs has been renamed now that Alexandria is a more trendy suburb.
Reminds me of a funny story. We used to regularly back up and play grade when I was a colt. One week we were playing a team called South Sydney New Zealanders which had a number of very large men in their team. It was literaly men against boys. Our breakaway (also a colt backing up) joined the ruck. One of the bigger SS NZ's leaned over the ruck, picked up our breakaway by the shorts with one hand and threw him onto the ground about 5 foot away from the ruck.
Reminds me of a funny story. We used to regularly back up and play grade when I was a colt. One week we were playing a team called South Sydney New Zealanders which had a number of very large men in their team. It was literaly men against boys. Our breakaway (also a colt backing up) joined the ruck. One of the bigger SS NZ's leaned over the ruck, picked up our breakaway by the shorts with one hand and threw him onto the ground about 5 foot away from the ruck.
Crashy
John Solomon (38)
HAHA - I remember South Sydney New Zealand well. I think they had 4 teams for a while there. It was never a pleasant experience playing at Waterloo Oval against those maniacs. Same with West Sydney Saints - if ever there was a name that was completely incorrect of its description of the club, the West Sydney Saints is it. Anyone remember Matraville and Smithfield?
mark_s
Chilla Wilson (44)
I played against all of them except Smithfield, although I played fairvale which must have been right next door. Your right on west sydney saints although they did stick to cokes for the boat races. Hurlstone Park was another clulb of similar ilk.
lincoln
Bob Loudon (25)
You guys are lucky you never had to play the banks - BankNSW, RBA etc - meanest guys in town - always have been, always will be
Ozzie Bob
Charlie Fox (21)
South Sydney NZ were insane, i wonder if they became Sydney Harlequins????
grievous
Johnnie Wallace (23)
Doubt it, they play out of Waterloo oval now, used to be Glebe, the home pub is the Rugby club and Tony Daly used to coach them!
grievous
Johnnie Wallace (23)
I used to play for the Waves, tough times back then and glad they recovered even though we were in 1st div back then, I think the itinerant side of players is a big hinderance, players need to stay not be changing over every couple of years, helps on the social side though. The new grandstand looks fantastic, we had to share that ground with league back then and yes fix no.2 its the worst feild in Sydney rugby
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