NSW Suburban Rugby 2012

[Ozzie Bob]

Its just a personal opinion but the gap between 1st Div and second Div is growing. Clubs that have been promoted have struggled to stay up (Knox being the exception really) in 2007 Bobs went up and came straight back down. Same thing with Kings in 2008. Lindfield managed to stay up for two seasons, and Bobs are in their second year up there. Whats the point of these clubs going up there, getting belted by clubs who pay their players, going back down and players leave in droves?????

From one of the other topics Kings are in desperate need of players and coaches. Why doestry clubs by playing against semi professional teams?

In saying that, full credit to Brothers. They had a tough year in 2010 that saw them end up in Div 4. They did what they had to do and attracted some quality players. They ended up with 2 out of 3 teams finishing as premiers and now they can look to build on that!

I just think that if you want to have a strong comp then everyone needs to be on the same page!

Im sure some will say that its a battle of the fittest, but do you really want a 6 team 1st Div comp with just Pats, Colleagues, Dirty Reds, C/Town, Knox and Mosman????

Plus how long will these benefactors or sponsors stick around, what happens when they pull their money, will these clubs just fold?

 

[SteveMerrick]

I can assure you that not all teams in 1st Division pay players money....... that is an easy cop out to simply say that they are all paying players - just as the Sydney Uni argument is a cop out in Shute Shield. However I do feel that 2nd division clubs coming up have a natural disadvantage as at a mininmum they have at least one less senior team than the other first division sides in their first year, perhaps their should be a promotion / relegation play off or potentially clubs should have the option of not progressing to a higher division if they do not have the confidence to move up.

I recall in 1993 when the old Sydney Rugby Union 2nd Division merged with Kentwell Cup to form an 18 team competition - the initial thoughts were that the subbies clubs would be smashed - as it turned out more Sydney Rugby Union 2nd Division sides went down to 2nd division subbies than the Subbies clubs...... Kentwell Cup is a decent quality competition with many players turning out who have or could play higher levels if they so wanted but they choose not to - the challenge moving forward is to ensure that all clubs and players find a level that ensures they have a positive experience.

 

[barbarian]

We had our first training session tonight, and much to our suprise had 40-odd blokes turn up! So maybe we won't have as big a struggle with numbers as we first thought.

Still looking for a first grade coach though, getting a bit desperate now. We have a few guys at the club who could step up if needs be, but would prefer to find an outsider. Again if anyone has any connections they would be very much appreciated!

But now looking forward to the start of the season. Still two months away, which seems like ages considering the Super Rugby starts in a couple of weeks. Bring on the trials I suppose.

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[Ozzie Bob]

We had our first training session tonight, and much to our suprise had 40-odd blokes turn up! So maybe we won't have as big a struggle with numbers as we first thought.

Still looking for a first grade coach though, getting a bit desperate now. We have a few guys at the club who could step up if needs be, but would prefer to find an outsider. Again if anyone has any connections they would be very much appreciated!

But now looking forward to the start of the season. Still two months away, which seems like ages considering the Super Rugby starts in a couple of weeks. Bring on the trials I suppose.

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Mate good luck with the numbers and the coach!

Hope you guys have a much better year in '12 than '11

 

[barbarian]

Yeah here's hoping.

Second Division is going to be super competitive this year, probably the best year that I can remember.

 

[Jnor]

We'll have to catch up at a game when KOB play Balmain, Baabaa (we may be playing each other for all I know)

 

[barbarian]

Definitely. What grade are you hoping for? Looks like I will start off in the seconds.

 

[Jnor]

I'll be in fourths or thirds most likely. Apparently a lot has changed in coaching though, so there may be more opportunity for promotion than last year. I guess Ill see once I head down to training but I think we have pretty big numbers too

 

[EVERYFWDTHINKTHEYREA6OR7]

I have been enjoying this thread. It's great reading all the bitching and moaning about other clubs trying to recruit and be successful. Ask yourself why your club is not doing the same?

Not involved with any of the clubs mentioned here.

 

[barbarian]

Because we don't have any money.

But more than that it is an ideological debate at the core of Subbies rugby. Subbies is supposed to be amatuerism at it's zenith, rugby for no reason other than a love of the game. Paying players quite good $$ has always been a bit of a sore point, and now it is becoming more widespread as a few other clubs get on the bandwagon.

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[EVERYFWDTHINKTHEYREA6OR7]

Yeah i agree in principle with what you are saying, but screw it. They will sink or swim.

 

[Rhys]

Yeah i agree in principle with what you are saying, but screw it. They will sink or swim.

Fair enough, but I think under that method about 90% will sink, with the 10% that swim absorbing them. Sadly, most clubs have no hope of reaching the heights of the currently long established ones in Div 1.

 

[barbarian]

Yeah i agree in principle with what you are saying, but screw it. They will sink or swim.

Are you implying clubs without wealthy benefactors should go under? Because that is what drives it. It isn't like these clubs have gotten to where they are by being necessarily better at how they run their club, it is more that one or two big companies/individuals have come along and poured $$$ into their coffers.

Suburban rugby needs to be above the economic equivalent of 'survival of the fittest'. Otherwise the game will only survive in its traditional strongholds. Clubs out west or down south simply could not compete. This then impacts upon the juniors programs and thus the support for the game as a whole.

We are right on the coalface here, and nothing can be allowed to compromise the larger development of the game. I am not saying that is what is happening at the moment, but the seeds are being planted.

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[Ozzie Bob]

Its catch 22 isnt it?

Take for example Brothers rugby club. Not only do they share their home ground with another club (Roseville), but within stones throw they have Chatswood, Lindfield, St Ives and across the bridge Forest. They are fighting all these clubs for players. They have no attachment to a school or junior rugby club. Therefore they have to get players from somewhere!

Good luck to them, it just makes beating clubs like that so satisfying!!!!!

 

[barbarian]

I don't have a huge problem with clubs going under due to too many rugby clubs in that area. What I am more worried about is clubs going under because they are losing their players to league, AFL, soccer or just retirement. That is the case out west and down south.

 

[Rugby Central]

I don't have a huge problem with clubs going under due to too many rugby clubs in that area. What I am more worried about is clubs going under because they are losing their players to league, AFL, soccer or just retirement. That is the case out west and down south.

Are you sure about that? How do you reckon a combined Knox, Bobs, St Ives, Lindfield, Roseville and Brothers side would go? Their home grounds cover just 4 suburbs. Where would they go? certainly not out to fill the ranks of the newly (re)formed Liverpool club. If Clubs fall by the wayside where rugby is popular you will create Subbies "Super" clubs. Not an ideal situation either

 

[Rugby Central]

By the way. Welcome to Liverpool, Alexandria Dukes and Norths into Div 6 Subbies.

Is it just me or is having Shute Shield Clubs fielding Subbies sides bother anyone?

 

[mark_s]

The shute shield clubs used to field teams in subbies colts comps. I can recall playing against Eastwood, Souths and Gordon. I have no problem with it.

 

[barbarian]

Are you sure about that? How do you reckon a combined Knox, Bobs, St Ives, Lindfield, Roseville and Brothers side would go? Their home grounds cover just 4 suburbs. Where would they go? certainly not out to fill the ranks of the newly (re)formed Liverpool club. If Clubs fall by the wayside where rugby is popular you will create Subbies "Super" clubs. Not an ideal situation either

But all of those clubs aren't going to go under so it's a silly hypothetical. Of course I never like to see rugby clubs go belly up anywhere but my point was the impact of that is clearly less in the northern and eastern suburbs than out west or down south.

 

[EVERYFWDTHINKTHEYREA6OR7]

Are you implying clubs without wealthy benefactors should go under? Because that is what drives it. It isn't like these clubs have gotten to where they are by being necessarily better at how they run their club, it is more that one or two big companies/individuals have come along and poured $$$ into their coffers.

Suburban rugby needs to be above the economic equivalent of 'survival of the fittest'. Otherwise the game will only survive in its traditional strongholds. Clubs out west or down south simply could not compete. This then impacts upon the juniors programs and thus the support for the game as a whole.

We are right on the coalface here, and nothing can be allowed to compromise the larger development of the game. I am not saying that is what is happening at the moment, but the seeds are being planted.

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No what im saying is that if they are going down this path of paying players etc and they sink. Then so be it. It would suck but if these clubs (with commitee's mind you) allow this kind of behaivour and they don't swim they have only got themselves to blame.