NSW Schools - Trial Games and Selections 2015

[tragickingdom]

The AICES boys are going into camp before the first games. Having been at the trials, a very strong side was picked with many players involved with previous rep experience including CSRU, Junior gold, SJRU. There are a couple who are playing 1st grade colts in Sydney and some playing with 1st grade mens in the country. It will be very hard for them against CHS who have many times more to choose from and the ISA who have a weekly weekend based comp but they will soldier on until the final whistle.

 

[Chris McCracken]

But the State School lads have the CHS representative team to access "the pathway", and the Catholics have CCC for likewise.


NSW Country Schools just seemed to give country lads a second bite of the cherry to access "the pathway".

That is 100% true. But, as has been mentioned on the CHS thread, the country boys are at a disadvantage. CCC does not recruit from all Catholic schools - especially from the Wilcannia-Forbes diocese, which is half the state. AICES can't fill the gap as it's only 70-odd schools, IIRC.

I believe that the combination of the Country Schools and AICES squads would probably have been the best way to both an achievable path and a competitive team. That's not to be, though.

You might suggest I'm biased, too. I am. I see country kids every day who work hard and deserve a chance to experience the next level but are overlooked - for both right and wrong reasons.

An equaliser has been removed. I'd like it if it came back. I don't think that's so wrong.

 

[Boof]

That is 100% true. But, as has been mentioned on the CHS thread, the country boys are at a disadvantage. CCC does not recruit from all Catholic schools - especially from the Wilcannia-Forbes diocese, which is half the state. AICES can't fill the gap as it's only 70-odd schools, IIRC.

I believe that the combination of the Country Schools and AICES squads would probably have been the best way to both an achievable path and a competitive team. That's not to be, though.

You might suggest I'm biased, too. I am. I see country kids every day who work hard and deserve a chance to experience the next level but are overlooked - for both right and wrong reasons.

An equaliser has been removed. I'd like it if it came back. I don't think that's so wrong.

Its not wrong - yes it might give some boys two bites at the cherry but very few. CSRU just gave most boys the chance. I think if you asked the boys who did have the choice they will pick that orange jersey every day of the week, I told you some would not understand.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I can understand the country AICES lad or the CCC lad choosing a CSRU jumper, but would a lad from Alstonville High prefer an CSRU orange jumper over a blue CHS1 jumper?

 

[dahli lama]

Any thoughts of u16's team? Surely Angels-Corke will be there as he played last year and i heard playing 2nds at joeys

 

[big mamma]

Just found this NSW PSSA team of 2009 which would be the current crop of year 12's. Recognise some names.
How many are still around the rugby circles?

2009 NSW PSSA TEAM

Name, School, Area
Bailey SIMONSSON, Cromer PS, SN
Alec DIAMOND, St Aloysius College, CIS
Nat BUTCHER, St Andrews, Malabar, MAC
Ben MOSS. Cromer PS, SN
Jack COGGER, St Marys, Toukley, POL
Brad PARKER. Collaroy Plateau PS, SN
Kurtis PREECE, Waverley College, CIS
Simon FONAU, Berala PS, SSW
Nick ROBSON-SCOTT, Avalon PS, SN
Jack LYONS, St Kevins, Earlwood, MAC
Lachlan SWINTON, Knox College, CIS
Elia FAATUI, Balgowlah North PS, SN
Carl WINTERSTEIN, Colyton PS, SW
Colin McALPINE, Point Clare PS, SN
Zac VON APPEN, Curl Curl North PS, SN
Max GIRDLER, Avalon PS, SN
Jacob COLLYER, Bennett Road PS, SW
Harrison GODDARD, Kenthurst PS, SW
Harry BRINK, Scots College, CIS
Lachlan SIMPSON, St Andrews, Malabar, MAC
Jack McGREGOR, St Ignatius, Riverview, CIS
Jack GOODE, St Annes, Temora, MAC

 

[Boof]

While it may or may not be pretty can we please get a review of the ACIES. Games this year like we get for other associations. There are some talented kids scattered in there and it is already hard enough for them to get noticed. For ACIES to grow ( which will benefit the game as a whole ) they will need support from the entire rugby community.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

@Boof, that is a great idea ... ... ... but G&GR articles and posts are ultimately crowd sourced from their unpaid interns (that is us). A parent, player or associate that attends an AICES game needs to take a few notes, a picture or two and then assemble those words into a rough match report and hey presto -> AICES gets some attention.

 

[Boof]

Challenge is set, assuming they will have a review now thanks HJ

 

[Chris McCracken]

While it may or may not be pretty can we please get a review of the ACIES. Games this year like we get for other associations. There are some talented kids scattered in there and it is already hard enough for them to get noticed. For ACIES to grow ( which will benefit the game as a whole ) they will need support from the entire rugby community.

If I make the games, I'll be able to put something together.

 

[tragickingdom]

I will ensure that AICES's games get a review. Your right, AICES has a lot of great players and they need to be acknowledged. They may get one or even no players through to NSW or CS but they provide players at the state trials.

 

[Boof]

Photos are more my thing, just checked draw and I will be able to snap some shots for the boys. We all need to get behind rugby as a whole not just a pocket and this gents is a start for these boys who are all as eager as the next to crack it. Its not just about NSW selection a lot of people watch these games and follow players with an eye to bring them to their club, school or program. But above all these lads get the same experience as the any other association. The program looks to have improved with a level 3 coach on board for the opens and Eastwood coaching staff lending a hand at the selection trial, they have also added a camp. There is a bit of Country in there with the Opens manager having a very long association as coach or manager of CSRU over about 2 decades so hopefully he can bring some of that pride and passion with him.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

2015 NSW CCC Under 18 Squad for NSW All Schools Trials
1. Austin LATU, Patrician Brothers' College (Blacktown)
2. Maxwell STEWART, St Edward's College (Gosford)
3. Thomas NEWMAN, St Francis Xavier's College (Hamilton)
4. Max FREEMAN, De La Salle College (Cronulla)
5. Brendan NEVILLE, Holy Spirit College (Bellambi)
6. Vaughan SANDRAL, St John's College Woodlawn (Lismore)
7. Joshua MALTESE, Bede Polding College (South Windsor)
8. Jonathan CHAPMAN, Holy Spirit College (Bellambi)
9. Jamieson WILLIAMS, St Joseph's Regional College (Port Macquarie)
10. Liam BAKER, St Edward's College (Gosford)
11. Leon TUPOLA, Holy Spirit College (Lakemba)
12. Daniel BOARDMAN, Xavier Catholic College (Skennars Head)
13. Siosaia VAIKELI, De La Salle College (Ashfield)
14. Daniel LONERAGAN, Marist College (Eastwood)
15. Patrick PELLEGRINI, Champagnat Catholic College (Maroubra)

16. Cameron TEISINA, Champagnat Catholic College (Maroubra)
17. Kye MARSHALL, St Joseph's Regional College (Port Macquarie)
18. Hamish FISHER, Xavier Catholic College (Skennars Head)
19. Hamish MILNE, Bede Polding College (South Windsor)
20. Joshua PELE, De La Salle College (Revesby Heights)
21. Daniel MALLOY, St Catherine's College (Singleton)
22. Monty SHERIFF, Trinity Catholic College (Auburn)

Source: https://www.csss.nsw.edu.au/nswccc-rugby-results.aspx
Coaches: Mr. S. MITCHELL, Marist College, Lismore & Mr. N. LAH, Marist College, Eastwood
Manager: Matt BARTLOW, Trinity Catholic College, Lismore

Edit: Positions added as per the Team in the programme for the CHS game

 

[rugboy]

Just found this NSW PSSA team of 2009 which would be the current crop of year 12's. Recognise some names.
How many are still around the rugby circles?

2009 NSW PSSA TEAM

Name, School, Area
Bailey SIMONSSON, Cromer PS, SN
Alec DIAMOND, St Aloysius College, CIS
Nat BUTCHER, St Andrews, Malabar, MAC
Ben MOSS. Cromer PS, SN
Jack COGGER, St Marys, Toukley, POL
Brad PARKER. Collaroy Plateau PS, SN
Kurtis PREECE, Waverley College, CIS
Simon FONAU, Berala PS, SSW
Nick ROBSON-SCOTT, Avalon PS, SN
Jack LYONS, St Kevins, Earlwood, MAC
Lachlan SWINTON, Knox College, CIS
Elia FAATUI, Balgowlah North PS, SN
Carl WINTERSTEIN, Colyton PS, SW
Colin McALPINE, Point Clare PS, SN
Zac VON APPEN, Curl Curl North PS, SN
Max GIRDLER, Avalon PS, SN
Jacob COLLYER, Bennett Road PS, SW
Harrison GODDARD, Kenthurst PS, SW
Harry BRINK, Scots College, CIS
Lachlan SIMPSON, St Andrews, Malabar, MAC
Jack McGREGOR, St Ignatius, Riverview, CIS
Jack GOODE, St Annes, Temora, MAC

Not a lot seem to still be prominent in Rugby circles from limited knowledge. Obviously Goddard and McGregor played Schoolboys last year. Girdler played GPS 1s.

A number are playing league with 3 Butcher, Cogger and Faatui already playing Holden Cup while Simonsson, Fonau played SG Ball.

 

[sarcophilus]

from Rugboy

"Faatui already playing Holden Cup" ISA Last Year probably back this year
"Simonsson,...... played SG Ball" ? also at Newington ?
Lachlan Swinton? "captain America" from Knox?
I think I saw Diamond mentioned in some CAS Posts..Giant wing from alloys still pulling the boots on

some current year 12s may have been asked to repeat a year when changing senor schools may have been performing in this age group but excluded from "primary school sport association" as they were in year 7

a good argument to let the kids enjoy their rugby/ (or any chosen sport) as kids when they are 12 and not crap on about being approached by agents or giving them 'supplements' that are probably no more helpful than dehydrated sugar loaded coffee

 

[Hugh Jarse]

That is 100% true. But, as has been mentioned on the CHS thread, the country boys are at a disadvantage. CCC does not recruit from all Catholic schools - especially from the Wilcannia-Forbes diocese, which is half the state. AICES can't fill the gap as it's only 70-odd schools, IIRC.

I believe that the combination of the Country Schools and AICES squads would probably have been the best way to both an achievable path and a competitive team. That's not to be, though.

You might suggest I'm biased, too. I am. I see country kids every day who work hard and deserve a chance to experience the next level but are overlooked - for both right and wrong reasons.

An equaliser has been removed. I'd like it if it came back. I don't think that's so wrong.

Some Representative Squads from School Associations that span metro and country areas have been announced.

My rough count of the Country/Metro breakdown from the squads announced so far is:
CCC U18 - 11 country, 11 metro
AICES U16 - 16 country, 7 metro
AICES U18 - 13 country, 10 metro
CHS U16 - 15 country, 29 metro
CHS U18 - 22 country, 17 metro

For comparison, the 2014 NSW Country Schools U18 Team consisted of:
8 CCC, 8 AICES, 4 AAGPS and 3 CHS players.

How many really talented Country players have missed out on selection in this years CHS, AICES and CCC squads?

 

[Chris McCracken]

I think we've got a bit of the "Cheryl's Birthday" problem here.

When I refer to "country" players, I'm referring to what you described as the "drive 200km just to get to training" players. As you pointed out in that post, most of the Country Schools players were in that boat. In fact, 13 of those in the 2014 1stXV, by my reckoning.

I'm happy to change the terminology I use for those players, if you like.

I figure there are 5 of the CHS Opens in that category, 3 in the AICES Opens and 5 in the CCC Opens. This is a rough count, too.

To answer your question directly, yes, I think there may be some good Country players who missed out. I only say that because I read the CCC thread and talked to someone who told me how high the standard was and some of the players who didn't make it.

But, that's not my point. My point is regarding the "200km" country pathway, as well as the competitiveness of the AICES team. My main contention was:

"I believe that the combination of the Country Schools and AICES squads would probably have been the best way to both an achievable path and a competitive team."

I also declared my bias.

But, I genuinely think there is a win-win for everyone if the AICES/CSRU squads could widen their net and thus become more competitive at the trials.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

@Chris McCraken, I get your point about country and country.

One of the problems is outright ignorance. I have known fairly decent junior rugby players who have attended AICES and CCC schools in Sydney. Seeing them on the sidelines at junior club games around this time of year, I've asked them if they tried out for their School Rep teams and they have usually claimed to have not known that AICES or CCC rep trials were on.

Unless the parents are "knowledgeable" and a little proactive about seeking out information on School Association trials, or if the Head of Sport is not particularly proactive in promoting Rugby Union, many city kids (not Rock Stars but good solid players that could do well in a representative environment, and benefit from their time "on the pathway") are as overlooked as the "drive 200 km just to get to training" folk you are advocating for.

Unless there is a champion of rugby at the various schools, telling people of upcoming trials, many folk across the state miss the chance to even try out. Information is power and many people are left powerless by not knowing the relevant information.

On "real" country folk getting "dudded", you probably recognise that there is a swag of "drive 200km just to get to training" players attending city schools (including Bathurst and Orange) as borders, and a good number of those make ISA, CAS or AAGPS rep teams. Many country folk either can't afford the horrendous fees to send their kids to board in the expensive city schools, or they decide that they want their child brought up in their family environment, and they fall into the category you are advocating for.

 

[Chris McCracken]

We're on the same page with all of that.

There certainly is a lack of knowledge as to the trials, as well. I know several boys eligible for CSSA trials who never knew until way too late. Likewise, my son's old school - a stable of CCC Rugby League players - took all of the Union blokes to CCC League trials and conveniently forgot to mention the CCC Union trials.

I do recognise the borders aspect, though I don't think they have the same difficulties. I think many of the ISA teams will come from the schools at Bathurst or Orange, as well. But, you are correct. I am advocating for the rural kids who are being schooled locally and coaches by (oft times excellent) club coaches.

 

[Boof]

@Chris McCraken, I get your point about country and country.

One of the problems is outright ignorance. I have known fairly decent junior rugby players who have attended AICES and CCC schools in Sydney. Seeing them on the sidelines at junior club games around this time of year, I've asked them if they tried out for their School Rep teams and they have usually claimed to have not known that AICES or CCC rep trials were on.
Unless the parents are "knowledgeable" and a little proactive about seeking out information on School Association trials, or if the Head of Sport is not particularly proactive in promoting Rugby Unior, many city kids (not Rock Stars but good solid players that could do well in a representative environment, and benefit from their time "on the pathway") are as overlooked as the "drive 200 km just to get to training" folk you are advocating for.

Unless there is a champion of rugby at the schools, telling people of upcoming trials, many folk across the state miss the chance to even try out. Information is power and many people are left powerless by not knowing the relevant information.

On "real" country folk getting "dudded", you probably recognise that there is a swag of "drive 200km just to get to training" players attending city schools (including Bathurst and Orange) as borders, and a good number of those make ISA, CAS or AAGPS rep teams. Many country folk either can't afford the horrendous fees to send their kids to board in the expensive city schools, or they decide that they want their child brought up in their family environment, and they fall into the category you are advocating for.

I seriously don't think ( and really hope know else dose ) that country lads get "dudded "or miss selection just because they are in the 200km basket, its really because of lack of opportunity and preparation for these boys in the lead up to trialing for a rep side, getting the same opportunity as city or major regional center players to be involved in high quality squads, have quality coaching ( not just dads) consistent training and have other good players around you making the team work and everyone look good because of it.

You can not compare the country player from say Hunter and what he receives by way of coaching with quality level 2 coaches, level 1-2 assistant coaches, full support staff including a physio along with training 2-3 times per week and free gym access , plus playing in a good quality club comp every Saturday and often also in a developing school competition to the poor young fella in Walget getting noticed on raw talent alone but hasn't received any preparation for when he arrives in Sydney ( at great expense to his parents ) to mark up against some very well groomed rugby players, no matter if it is with CCC, CHS or ACIES

It is opportunity and preparation that these lads need and CSRU did provide this by way of training camps and tours and of course was country based in Armidale making access to the training camps much more viable for a lot. That is the difference with ACIES for country boys in the 200km basket