NSW JRU State Championships & Representative Teams 2013

[The Taxi Driver]

Gordon has developed a successful model that makes people want to join the club/programs. A more disciplined and pseudo professional approach is what attracted us to the club rather than a couple of random training runs. Maybe other rep sides should do the same? I have only ever seen great sportmanship from the boys which is actively encouraged by all the coaching staff.

 

[Quick Hands]

I have no problem believing George Smith on this as you have stated his posts have the appearance of balance and knowledge. I do have a problem with the described conduct and the confidence tricks used on parents and players at the u 11 12 and even 13 levels.
u/17 may not be a great example as the crowds have left for school. Review the State champion u16 over the past couple of seasons how many u/11 champions are still playing in the u/16 teams. Many players jockey for position and then take up netball instead. To be using "your sons rugby future" as a carrot/stick to support your own ends is atrocious behaviour.

I am not sure how close Moral and Fiscal balance sheets follow each other but in this case..

It has happened before, the current Manly15s age group lost players to Gordon in 13s in similar circumstances and the current Manly 16s age group lost a swag of players to Warringah in the 13s.

As I understand it, one way of beating the import rule is if the losing team folds. So if you manage to entice enough players away from say Harbord Harlequins to say Newport and the team folds - no problem. And we all know that in junior sport, if you take the best 3 or 4 from a team, the team will probably fold as the other boys know what's in store if they keep playing -massive defeats every week.

Sad, but if people want to win junior sporting competitions that badly they will probably find a way around most rules.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

As a would be politician in this great land once said "please explain"

Reform being driven by the almighty dollar. Apparently nothing is sacred with the new regime in St Leonards. I have been told that everything is being reviewed to determine if it represents value for money. If it doesn't, then alternatives will be explored until the outputs justify the inputs.

The Schools champs will remain in some form or other as will the Aust Schoolboys team. The big question is over whether funding can be found to continue to run them in their current format - all teams 1 week in Sydney/Brisbane, two divisions with 8 in division 1, 4 in Division 2. U16's is likely to be trimmed/reduced in scope.

The folk in Castle St Leonards are apparently not all that happy with all the internal politics being played out between schools and clubs. This will most likely come as a complete shock to those within those organisations, many of whom are absolutely convinced that they are doing a fantastic job for Rugby. Many on these boards will simply observe "about bloody time".

The recent leadership changes will be the opportunity that will be seized to push through some long over due structural changes. I can forsee some some colateral damage to individuals and organisations who stand in the way of "the new deal". Prisoners will be executed.

Many of us have heard all this before, and seen it fizzle out, but this time the inside word is that they are serious. I have yet to establish who "they" are but I have my suspicions. Until I get a seperate source to independently corroborate this, it should be treated as no more reliable than anything from Grumbles Old Mate Radio. That being said it does sound extremely plausible knowing some of the individuals involved.

 

[George Smith]

It has happened before, the current Manly15s age group lost players to Gordon in 13s in similar circumstances and the current Manly 16s age group lost a swag of players to Warringah in the 13s.

As I understand it, one way of beating the import rule is if the losing team folds. So if you manage to entice enough players away from say Harbord Harlequins to say Newport and the team folds - no problem. And we all know that in junior sport, if you take the best 3 or 4 from a team, the team will probably fold as the other boys know what's in store if they keep playing -massive defeats every week.

Sad, but if people want to win junior sporting competitions that badly they will probably find a way around most rules.

Your reference to the folding teams are correct. You may also add the Chatswood U14s in 2010 when they enticed so many from Wahroonga that their 'A' team collapsed. They also poached a player from another club whilst assisting that player gaining a scholarship to a GPS school.

 

[George Smith]

Reform being driven by the almighty dollar. Apparently nothing is sacred with the new regime in St Leonards. I have been told that everything is being reviewed to determine if it represents value for money. If it doesn't, then alternatives will be explored until the outputs justify the inputs.

The Schools champs will remain in some form or other as will the Aust Schoolboys team. The big question is over whether funding can be found to continue to run them in their current format - all teams 1 week in Sydney/Brisbane, two divisions with 8 in division 1, 4 in Division 2. U16's is likely to be trimmed/reduced in scope.

The folk in Castle St Leonards are apparently not all that happy with all the internal politics being played out between schools and clubs. This will most likely come as a complete shock to those within those organisations, many of whom are absolutely convinced that they are doing a fantastic job for Rugby. Many on these boards will simply observe "about bloody time".

The recent leadership changes will be the opportunity that will be seized to push through some long over due structural changes. I can forsee some some colateral damage to individuals and organisations who stand in the way of "the new deal". Prisoners will be executed.

Many of us have heard all this before, and seen it fizzle out, but this time the inside word is that they are serious. I have yet to establish who "they" are but I have my suspicions. Until I get a seperate source to independently corroborate this, it should be treated as no more reliable than anything from Grumbles Old Mate Radio. That being said it does sound extremely plausible knowing some of the individuals involved.

The background to this was also a driver for the blog on "The Ideal NSW Schools Comp" which may be more correctly titled "The ideal comp for NSW Youth (10-18s)"

 

[Quick Hands]

Your reference to the folding teams are correct. You may also add the Chatswood U14s in 2010 when they enticed so many from Wahroonga that their 'A' team collapsed. They also poached a player from another club whilst assisting that player gaining a scholarship to a GPS school.

And we wonder why less boys are playing junior club rugby. The best 4 boys from a team go to a 'super' team and most of the other 16 stop playing rugby.

 

[Quick Hands]

Reform being driven by the almighty dollar. Apparently nothing is sacred with the new regime in St Leonards. I have been told that everything is being reviewed to determine if it represents value for money. If it doesn't, then alternatives will be explored until the outputs justify the inputs.

quote]

I hope that they apply this criteria to their own wages and administration and hospitality costs. (JON springs to mind)

As the base of the pyramid shrinks, so does the size of the trough into which they can put their snouts

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Reform being driven by the almighty dollar. Apparently nothing is sacred with the new regime in St Leonards. I have been told that everything is being reviewed to determine if it represents value for money. If it doesn't, then alternatives will be explored until the outputs justify the inputs.

The Schools champs will remain in some form or other as will the Aust Schoolboys team. The big question is over whether funding can be found to continue to run them in their current format - all teams 1 week in Sydney/Brisbane, two divisions with 8 in division 1, 4 in Division 2. U16's is likely to be trimmed/reduced in scope.

The folk in Castle St Leonards are apparently not all that happy with all the internal politics being played out between schools and clubs. This will most likely come as a complete shock to those within those organisations, many of whom are absolutely convinced that they are doing a fantastic job for Rugby. Many on these boards will simply observe "about bloody time".

The recent leadership changes will be the opportunity that will be seized to push through some long thereover due structural changes. I can forsee some some colateral damage to individuals and organisations who stand in the way of "the new deal". Prisoners will be executed.
Years
Many of us have heard all this before, and seen it fizzle out, but this time the inside word is that they are serious. I have yet to establish who "they" are but I have my suspicions. Until I get a seperate source to independently corroborate this, it should be treated as no more reliable than anything from Grumbles Old Mate Radio. That being said it does sound extremely plausible knowing some of the individuals involved.

Has it ever occurred to the ARU that the present schemozzle is the result of taking insufficient interest?



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[George Smith]

And we wonder why less boys are playing junior club rugby. The best 4 boys from a team go to a 'super' team and most of the other 16 stop playing rugby.

We know that once boys start their secondary schooling (& often in new schools) they want to play with their 'mates' which means some movement between village clubs and I believe should be acceptable.

What is not acceptable is when active 'recruitment' occurs to win tournaments which is especially gaulish is when it occurs in young age groups U11/12/13s. What is alleged at Lindfield has teken this 'recruitment' to new levels when players are being 'paid' on a weekly basis (albeit in food vouchers) and they need to travel from the other end of the Sydney basin.

 

[rip]

I am surprised that the qualification ethicacy credentials have not been discussed of the Gordon U12 team in these blogs.

As most of the other teams formed a tunnel for the team playing against Gordon it brought sweet joy to their faces when Gordon was subsequently beaten.

It appears this large District is not content on having more feeder village clubs (8) than any other District or Rep team in the competition but also resorts to:
- importing players from 'out of District' came from Rockdale, Central Coast, Hurstville and Chain Valley Bay (Lake Macquarie)
- players who also been moved/poached to Lindfield from Wahroonga, Chatswood, and 3 from Hornsby
- apparently some of these players get around the SJRU "2 import rule" as they are from 'other' comps ie Sat comp and Country Comp
- 'paid' players to join them in the form of IGA food vouchers
- required players to participate in a private fee based coaching clinics (run by and proceeds go to the team's convenor) in summer with the threat of not participating may jeopardise their District rep selection
- weight management program instigated by the convenor of the team
- the convenor/instigator of all this has a son in the team
- of the 23 players in the squad 13 played for the same club team last year (= 10 have moved this year)!

It appears that there is enough evidence here to ask some questions to Lindfield and Gordon Presidents notwithstanding the competition organisers.

1. Is this what we want for U12 boys?
2. Is this the way to behave from the largest District (most players and clubs) in the State?
3. What is being done about the perpetrators?

 

[Quick Hands]

We know that once boys start their secondary schooling (& often in new schools) they want to play with their 'mates' which means some movement between village clubs and I believe should be acceptable.

What is not acceptable is when active 'recruitment' occurs to win tournaments which is especially gaulish is when it occurs in young age groups U11/12/13s. What is alleged at Lindfield has teken this 'recruitment' to new levels when players are being 'paid' on a weekly basis (albeit in food vouchers) and they need to travel from the other end of the Sydney basin.

And judging by colts and grade results at Gordon, the policy seems to run out of puff fairly quickly.

What we do know is that good players with the right attitude will make it, whether or not they change clubs and that boys who are put into pseudo-professional set-ups at a young age are often burnt out by the time they reach 16-18 years of age.

 

[George Smith]

A quick look at this year's trialists and which of them represented last year at Zone or higher.

U17 Sydney Trialists
Aidan Hopping, Penrith
Aisea Tukipilli, Warringah (2012: NSW Schools)
Andrew Davies, Warringah
Angus Gutteridge, Southern Districts (2012: SZ, Syd 16s)
Austin Black West, Harbour (2012: WZ, Syd 16s)
Ben Crerar, Manly (2012: SZ, NSW Schools)
Ben Fontaine, Warringah
Conner Doherty, Warringah
Connor Davidson, Manly (2012: NSW Schools)
Dan Cosgrove, Eastwood
Declan Moore, Manly (2012: BB, NSW Schools)
Ed Craig, Eastwood (2012: WZ)
Epalahane Tali, West Harbour
George Corias, West Harbour (2012: SZ)
Harrison Lowe, Manly
Harry Fox, Gordon
Harry Rowe, Penrith
Jack Conen, Southern Districts (2012: SZ)
Jacob Bamford, Eastwood (2012: WZ)
Jonte Kaplan, Manly (2012: BB)
Josh Lynch, Eastwood (2012: WZ)
Josh Martin, Penrith
Josh Thornton, Warringah
Lachlan Burland, Eastwood (2012: WZ)
Lochie Adair, West Harbour (2012: NZ)
Maumau Bruce Monu, West Harbour
Mitchell Caldwell, Eastwood
Nareg Nazarian, Eastwood
Nick Newman, Manly
Nico Fiapuleniko, Eastwood (2012: WZ)
Robert Hill, Warringah
Rohan Zebib, Eastwood (2012: WZ)
Scott Moran, Manly
Scott Williams, Manly
Sione Afu, Manly
Tevita Moeakiola, West Harbour
Thomas Graham, Eastwood
Thomas Hall, Eastwood
Tommy Sawden, West Harbour
Tully Macpherson, Penrith
William Cronin, Manly (2012: BB)

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ Things move fast in Sydney Juniors World George Smith.

The list you post at #132 above differs from the list that was published at 3pm on the Juniors Web site.

There were a couple of names that have changed as the day has unfolded.

There may be more that 41 kids turn up for the trial.

Once a kid sees their name on a list that they have downloaded and printed off, they don't go back three hours later to see if they are still on the list on the website.

Poor form from the unpaid interns at Sydney Juniors.

 

[Interested party]

^^^ Things move fast in Sydney Juniors World George Smith.

The list you post at #132 above differs from the list that was published at 3pm on the Juniors Web site.

There were a couple of names that have changed as the day has unfolded.

There may be more that 41 kids turn up for the trial.

Once a kid sees their name on a list that they have downloaded and printed off, they don't go back three hours later to see if they are still on the list on the website.

Poor form from the unpaid interns at Sydney Juniors.

Don't blame the administrators...blame the team coaches or even players who swapped jersey numbers. A friends son was mistakenly named as he wore another's jersey and selectors had a different list to what took the field. At least teams weren't put in jerseys alphabetically as happened a few years ago!!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

You wouldn't want to be a little halfback called Albert Abernathy if the jerseys were allocated in alphabetical sequence. You would end up wearing the Loosehead props jumper as a dress.

and speaking alphabetically, do the Harbord Harlequins still play with Alphabetic identifiers on their jerseys instead of numbers?

 

[Interested party]

You wouldn't want to be a little halfback called Albert Abernathy if the jerseys were allocated in alphabetical sequence. You would end up wearing the Loosehead props jumper as a dress.

and speaking alphabetically, do the Harbord Harlequins still play with Alphabetic identifiers on their jerseys instead of numbers?

That would give selectors a real headache! And with alphabet soup a no 2 running down the sideline scoring tries!!! Can just see the No 15 hooking!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Don't blame the administrators.blame the team coaches or even players who swapped jersey numbers. A friends son was mistakenly named as he wore another's jersey and selectors had a different list to what took the field. At least teams weren't put in jerseys alphabetically as happened a few years ago!!

Why not? The same administrators who may have failed to remind teams that the changing sheds were not suitable to leave valuables in because there was a theft of cash and phones in 2012, also appear to have failed to tell teams that they must have players play in the numbers they were listed in in the programme.

The same administrators can "re-calibrate" the selectors lists when they sign kids on each match against the Player numbers on the sign on sheet. It is not too hard in theory yet somehow it appears to have been too hard.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

You wouldn't want to be a little halfback called Albert Abernathy if the jerseys were allocated in alphabetical sequence. You would end up wearing the Loosehead props jumper as a dress.

and speaking alphabetically, do the Harbord Harlequins still play with Alphabetic identifiers on their jerseys instead of numbers?

Yes


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[juniors spectator]

As

Why not? The same administrators who may have failed to remind teams that the changing sheds were not suitable to leave valuables in because there was a theft of cash and phones in 2012, also appear to have failed to tell teams that they must have players play in the numbers they were listed in in the programme.

The same administrators can "re-calibrate" the selectors lists when they sign kids on each match against the Player numbers on the sign on sheet. It is not too hard in theory yet somehow it appears to have been too hard.

I attended both last years GF at Millner and this years and I did not hear of anyone losing things from the dressing room in 2011. And if the Manly team was administered by people from Colts they should have known not to leave valuables in the dressing room as it is standard practice for Premiership clubs to warn visiting teams to take valuables with them. This does not excuse the dreadful event and it is hoped the culprits can be identified as Manly deserve better especially having just won the 17 s.
As for jersey changes I saw that updated jersey number changes were given to sign on people and selectors and someone associated with the process of selection had access to these changes. The District coaches would presumably be communicating with the selectors so these changes surely would or should have been noted.

 

[Rahrah]

Ma

Interesting timeshifting going on at SJRU web site.

Pretty sure that earlier today the 41 nominated U17 trialists were required for a game on Friday night at 6:30 pm. I now see that this has moved to Sunday night at 6 30 pm.

This imposes an interesting workload on the selected boys. Most are playing either Colts or junior club games this weekend. Some have School games, and a couple have School representative games.

Those playing SJRU Opens A have games on Sunday 16 June starting as late as 3:40 pm at Porter Reserve. They are then expected to high tail it across town to Dural by 6:30 pm to play a trial match for selection for the Sydney Team.

Any boys in CHS I or II , ISA I or II or CCC will also be having a NSW Schools Trial Match at Pittwater Park on Sunday Afternoon.

I suppose it is necessary for the Selectors to see the boys again on Sunday just to make sure that the 2 boys from Southern Districts that didn't play in the State Champs "get a fair go". It is not their fault that another district couldn't find a slot for them. They can't be very active facebook users because one facebook based squad was apparently short of players and could have done with a couple of extra bench players.

The selectors must not have seen enough of the boys in the U17's over the 4 games the boys played on the weekend (and an extra 70 minute game on Monday for the Manly boys)?

I am fairly sure that any boys in the ISA, CHS, or CCC selections will be at Pittwater park and will be tendering their excuses for yet another trial game.

Is this yet another example of the inefficiency of U16 and U17 footy with its dual pathways. The kids have already performed for CCC/ISA/CHS/CAS selectors, re-performed for SJRU selectors in 4 games over the long weekend, and yet they are still expected to submit themselves for more trials. For what purpose and in who's benefit is this? An administrators ego or the best interests of a child?

Where is the common sense? I reckon there are a fair few parents asking WTF right about now.

I note with some amusement that 10to12 has posted "to the victor goes the spoils" on another thread about the seemingly disproportionate number of Illawarra U17 lads in the Country U17 team, particularly when they only won the Final by 3 points over Central Coast.

Manly win the State Championships and as a reward [10to12 "victory spoils"] (neglecting the theft of phones and cash from the change sheds) they get 10 boys nominated to trial for slots in the City team.

Eastwood who were comfortably beaten by the Central Coast team, (who were beaten by Manly twice), and were also comfortably beaten by Penrith are rewarded for their efforts over the weekend with 11 boys named in the trial for the final squad. Is this a reward for convincingly beating the Illawarra team that was severely understrength with only two on the bench and looked nothing like the NSW Country Championship winning team?

Penrith who beat Eastwood by 10 points are rewarded with four players being deemed suitably talented enough to try out for a slot to represent City.

West Harbour who managed to win only one game against the last place getter, and win another game on forfeit are rewarded with 7 boys in the final trial squad.

The Rats have 6 nominations for trial despite the wheels falling off their title tilt during Sundays games.

Seems we do things differently in the City to divide up the spoils of victory.

I am looking forward to the release of the U16 selections. Stay tuned for another Rant.

Edit: Spelling tidy up. I should also mention that the powers that be should consider using Coach Trigger from Manly. He seemed to do a fairly decent job with a ragtag bunch of kids in no time.

Making the U17s trial yet again for the Sydney team reeks of politics and nepotism. The selectors have had the opportunity to observe these boys play 4 games (in Manly's case 5 games) under representative conditions. Many of the players are sporting injuries from last weekend and/or are involved in other school and club games this coming weekend. To expect them to front up yet again less than a week later is unprofessional. As in previous years the team should be selected based on performance at the State Champs. Moving the goal posts and creating further hoops to jump through is obviously a ploy to advantage a select few. It is naive to think the U17 players don't see the nepotism and politics for what it is...a disgrace.