NSW CAS Rugby 2021

[Snort]

Agree, early indications are for a cracking CAS season with at least 4 maybe 5 teams a genuine shot at the Plume Shield. Interesting observation RL - Trinity are a bit of an enigma to me. I saw the games v Barker last year as a match official and the 1st and 2nd were v competitive and really could have gone either way. The 16A's on the other hand was a real miss-match and cricket score put on by Barker. I sense that the best 15 from Summer Hill are more than capable of pushing the big three (W,K and B) and could win the CAS, unless injuries test their depth which looks a little fragile.
Let hope they can keep their best team on the park all season.

Mr H, this is a very astute observation.

Everything for Trinity hinges on keeping their best XV on the paddock. As soon as there are injuries, the lack of depth is exposed. I'm told that, privately, the school's Rugby followers are not very optimistic about this season, and a win over an under-strength Cranbrook may not prove much. Still, they've won two from two (that I'm aware of), and I think they'll be competitive most of the time. Hannaford is a terrific 10 and it will be interesting to see what he can do if his forwards win some decent ball.

 

[WLF]

Mr H, this is a very astute observation.

Everything for Trinity hinges on keeping their best XV on the paddock. As soon as there are injuries, the lack of depth is exposed. I'm told that, privately, the school's Rugby followers are not very optimistic about this season, and a win over an under-strength Cranbrook may not prove much. Still, they've won two from two (that I'm aware of), and I think they'll be competitive most of the time. Hannaford is a terrific 10 and it will be interesting to see what he can do if his forwards win some decent ball.

Well Hello Snort, an old adversary of mine, and now days, someone I do like to hear from, cos of his wisdom and balanced approach, but you are rare with your thoughts, time to share more observations in 2021, after last years absence of much!

You are spot on, Trinity last year was terrific and may well be again this year. Hunter H. is a terrific player, plenty of natural instinct, toughness etc. Having watched this CAS and GPS age group over many years, if all teams remain unaffected by injuries, I have overall opinion.

Typically in most years, there may be 1 or 2 obvious contenders in both the CAS and GPD comps.
This age though has always had many more teams than normal who are very good in each comp.
So winning the comp will not rely on winning the odd BIG game.

For the sake of controversary, but typically banter because nothing we say will influence anything, and this IS the fun of this forum, here are my 2021 Predictions for both the CAS and GPS, I trust some of the GPS supporters will see this and respond, so let the war begin!

CAS GPS

1st Waverley (Undefeated) 1st Riverview (Undefeated)
2nd Knox 2nd Joeys
3rd Cranbrook 3rd Scots
4th Barker 4th Kings
5th Trinity 5th Newington
6th Aloys 6th Shore

 

[Snort]

Look, on Saturday I was watching the stream of Sydney University and Eastwood. After 80 minutes were up, University was two points behind, and Eastwood regained the ball. So I switched off because, at that point, the ball just gets poked into touch, right? Except after I did that, Eastwood kicked long, missed touch, and Uni ran it back and scored. Which I missed, because (and this is the point) you can't trust my predictions.

I haven't seen enough of this year's players, to be honest, to say much that's helpful. My instinct based on trial results so far is that WLF has probably underrated Barker's chances and overrated Cranbrook's. I think it's probably a two-tier competition again, with Waverley, Knox and Barker at the top end and the other three fighting to avoid the wooden spoon. We really need St Aloysius to recover from last season if the competition is to remain viable.

Anyway, hope to see WLF junior running around at some point.

 

[WLF]

Look, on Saturday I was watching the stream of Sydney University and Eastwood. After 80 minutes were up, University was two points behind, and Eastwood regained the ball. So I switched off because, at that point, the ball just gets poked into touch, right? Except after I did that, Eastwood kicked long, missed touch, and Uni ran it back and scored. Which I missed, because (and this is the point) you can't trust my predictions.

I haven't seen enough of this year's players, to be honest, to say much that's helpful. My instinct based on trial results so far is that WLF has probably underrated Barker's chances and overrated Cranbrook's. I think it's probably a two-tier competition again, with Waverley, Knox and Barker at the top end and the other three fighting to avoid the wooden spoon. We really need St Aloysius to recover from last season if the competition is to remain viable.

Anyway, hope to see WLF junior running around at some point.

HELLO SNORT!!!,

Yep nothing is for certain, to your point, forget the trials thus far, 1 game, the teams aren't settled and there are injuries even before it all really starts, WLF junior is 1 such as are a few waves backs and I am sure other teams have the same.

DO NOT underestimate Cranbrook this year, they have 8+ back form last year, barring injuring, and I predict they will beat Barker in game 1 at Barker.

I suspect we will all find out al lot more during the CAS/GPS trials, particularly when games are played against View and Joeys.

 

[Barker4Peat]

Look, on Saturday I was watching the stream of Sydney University and Eastwood. After 80 minutes were up, University was two points behind, and Eastwood regained the ball. So I switched off because, at that point, the ball just gets poked into touch, right? Except after I did that, Eastwood kicked long, missed touch, and Uni ran it back and scored. Which I missed, because (and this is the point) you can't trust my predictions.

I haven't seen enough of this year's players, to be honest, to say much that's helpful. My instinct based on trial results so far is that WLF has probably underrated Barker's chances and overrated Cranbrook's. I think it's probably a two-tier competition again, with Waverley, Knox and Barker at the top end and the other three fighting to avoid the wooden spoon. We really need St Aloysius to recover from last season if the competition is to remain viable.

Anyway, hope to see WLF junior running around at some point.

Well, when I say it is good to be back, I mean it. Looking back my name now appears somewhat arrogant, and I'm curious if anyone could let me in on how to change the damn thing.... Nevertheless, as an ex-Barker man myself, I'm sure most are aware we have never been shy of blowing our own trumpet. Anyway, I'm sure it will come to fruition in the coming four years, with excellent Barker teams coming through along with the excellence of players such as young Katoa.

I was fortunately able to get down and see the boys in red run rampant through a sleeping Stannies team. Barker saw a few shuffles around the backline, with Aidan Galloway coming in off his wing to play in the centres, along with Slack Smith pushing Darcy Benefield onto the bench. Slack-Smith looked a little rusty in his first game back from what I'm told was a back injury....

Overall, in relation to Snort's post, I think this year it truly is a 4-tier competition:

Tier One - Barker
Tier Two - Waverley, Knox, Cranbrook
Tier Three - Trinity
Tier Four - Aloys.

B4P.

 

[Mr Huge]

Ahh, early season predictions are the most fun, and this is just about the last chance to read the tea leaves since there will be some "triangulation" starting this Sat.
Barker has NC, who were competitive against the double V but came up short and then SJC who accounted for KGS by one try. There is some other comparisons in the next 2 weeks that will also be telling.

WLF, here's the counter.
CAS - Waves (deserved favourites), Barker, Knox, Trinity, Cranbrook, Alos (so I pretty much agree w Snort)
GPS - Joeys OR View, This is Shore's strongest age group for many years, they are a dark horse this season, as are New who have a particularly strong Y11 group. Haven't seen enough of the rest to know anything, except Kings seem to have lost a couple of *s at least to NRL!

Cranbrook are an outside chance at best to beat Barker in game 1 of the CAS, even though they are the "Bogie" team for the boys in Red. The Cranbrook "trial" games are ISA opposition, whereas Barker has 4 AAGPS including Joeys and View, so few direct comparisons to be made.

 

[Big Papi]

Tier One - Barker
B4P.

Hello fellow enthusiasts,

I've made a similar post on the AAGPS forum, was just looking to gain some insight into which teams are going to be strong this year.

I was not convinced that "Barker4Peat" had an objective opinion on the matter.

Ta da
BP

 

[axel]

Rod or B4P, do you guys have a Barker run on team? Having known this group since Year 4, i'd love to see who's made it all the way through.
Thank you.

 

[Barker4Peat]

Rod or B4P, do you guys have a Barker run on team? Having known this group since Year 4, i'd love to see who's made it all the way through.
Thank you.

No guarantees I'm completely correct buy I think it goes something like

1. Bryn Edwards
2. Oniti Finau
3. Dion Yaz
4. Lachlan Hooper
5. Sam Tapner
6. Conner Grills
7. Joel Kardash
8. Ned Slack Smith
9. Doug Fillipson
10. Isaiya Katoa
11. Jack Macintyre? (not sure how to spell it)
12. Will Kennedy
13. Aidan Galloway
14. Jono Reid
15. Hamish Jollow

 

[bring back rucking]

Knox host barker in the last round of the comp which is also Gala day... I can’t see a world where they pull out of games on that day.

 

[Snort]

<Deep sigh.>

Now, look, I got banned last year for wading into this. So here goes again. Be gentle, moderators.

No one will refuse to play against anyone because of "scholarships". However, there may well come a time when some schools refuse to play others for safety reasons.

We need new competitions, in which evenly-matched schools play each other, not competitions based on who had a similar standard 90 years ago. Most sensible people agree with this. No-one will do anything about it. Until one day, when a 120-kg kid on an NRL contract poleaxes his 75kg opponent, and someone gets hurt.

 

[Homer]

Its very easy to gauge. Last year Knox 15A team beat Barker 36 -0. Barker beat Waverly and Trinity with cricket scores (Knox v Waverley was washed out).
Waverley beat Newington on the weekend in the 16As and apparently the Barker team is hard to recognise. The shame is there are a lot of boys who grow up playing against each other and they are mates off the field. They just want an even field, to play their friends and to hopefully not end up like the GPS where there are only three real teams left.

 

[WLF]

Its very easy to gauge. Last year Knox 15A team beat Barker 36 -0. Barker beat Waverly and Trinity with cricket scores (Knox v Waverley was washed out).
Waverley beat Newington on the weekend in the 16As and apparently the Barker team is hard to recognise. The shame is there are a lot of boys who grow up playing against each other and they are mates off the field. They just want an even field, to play their friends and to hopefully not end up like the GPS where there are only three real teams left.

Homer, I think you may have made an unintended error here.

Last year in the 15as Waverley beat Barker by a cricket score, I have a younger boy in that age group and was there, so not sure your point with this analogy, but I certainly agree with the theme of your post.

 

[Homer]

Apologies WLF, I need to take information from my Barker sources with a little more salt! Hopefully the Knox and Waves boys get to meet this year in the 16s.

Homer, I think you may have made an unintended error here.
Last year in the 15as Waverley beat Barker by a cricket score, I have a younger boy in that age group and was there, so not sure your point with this analogy, but I certainly agree with the theme of your post.

 

[Mr Huge]

No guarantees I'm completely correct buy I think it goes something like

1. Bryn Edwards
2. Oniti Finau
3. Dion Yaz
4. Lachlan Hooper
5. Sam Tapner
6. Conner Grills
7. Joel Kardash
8. Ned Slack Smith
9. Doug Fillipson
10. Isaiya Katoa
11. Jack Macintyre? (not sure how to spell it)
12. Will Kennedy
13. Aidan Galloway
14. Jono Reid
15. Hamish Jollow

Close b4p, Bryn is at 2 not 1 and Jack Mac will likely drop out when Eli Sagala comes back, shifting Aiden G to the wing. Thats your starting 15 at the moment from Barker.
Far be it from me to pour cold water on a juicy rumour, but here's some observations.
By My count 11 of these 15 have been at the school since Y10 at least. There's a couple more who have joined in year 9 or year 8. So more than half this run on team has been at the school since Y7.

I'll leave it to the reader to decide if that's "dwarfing scotts".

 

[Snort]

C
By My count 11 of these 15 have been at the school since Y10 at least. There's a couple more who have joined in year 9 or year 8. So more than half this run on team has been at the school since Y7.

This is not a post about scholarships.

It's a post about maths.

Mr H, if 11 of 15 have been at school since Year 10, and a couple more joined in Year 8 or 9, that makes 13. Which leaves 2 out of 15. Which is not "half".

Mind you, with maths like this, I expect Barker to win a few games by 872-0 this season.

 

[Snort]

I also think that tradition is killing the game. They should split the comp into 3 tiers across GPS, CAS and ISA with a relegation system. If they want to have a GPS or CAS premiership winner the top two in each play a game at the end of the season.

How is someone like Aloys going to attract boys to play rugby in any grade when they get flogged every week. Even Barker now has only 2 U13 sides and 7 U13 football sides and an AFL side

I have been saying this for years. Well, I think "killing the game" is going too far, but it's irrational to have competitions based on school groupings from 90-120 years ago which are not fit for purpose. Here's a piece I wrote in 2012: http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/schoolboy-rugby-a-modest-proposal/ It's still valid.

We need, I'd say, three tiers. The first and most important criterion is the number of teams fielded by each school. Schools with 25 teams should play schools with 25 teams. Schools with 6 teams should play schools with 6 teams. Roughly - you get the point. Every school should have a chance to win the competition it's in, regardless of which association it used to belong to. You could have promotion or relegation opportunities as one school expands (or reduces) its Rugby program. It's critical that tiering be done by reference to the number of teams not 1st XV performance, because that rewards strong Rugby programs that develop players and promote the game.

It would be alarming if Barker had only two under 13 teams - is this right? I looked on the Barker website and saw it had only two 13s games scheduled against Newington, but that could well be because Newington only has two under 13 teams.

 

[Barker4Peat]

I have been saying this for years. Well, I think "killing the game" is going too far, but it's irrational to have competitions based on school groupings from 90-120 years ago which are not fit for purpose. Here's a piece I wrote in 2012: http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/schoolboy-rugby-a-modest-proposal/ It's still valid.

We need, I'd say, three tiers. The first and most important criterion is the number of teams fielded by each school. Schools with 25 teams should play schools with 25 teams. Schools with 6 teams should play schools with 6 teams. Roughly - you get the point. Every school should have a chance to win the competition it's in, regardless of which association it used to belong to. You could have promotion or relegation opportunities as one school expands (or reduces) its Rugby program. It's critical that tiering be done by reference to the number of teams not 1st XV performance, because that rewards strong Rugby programs that develop players and promote the game.

It would be alarming if Barker had only two under 13 teams - is this right? I looked on the Barker website and saw it had only two 13s games scheduled against Newington, but that could well be because Newington only has two under 13 teams.

Snort,

With your point about schools with 25 teams playing schools with 25 teams, which tier would Barker fall under? Consistently the school is in the top 2/3 in the CAS competition with relatively low teams... I'm just curious about what criterion would be most effective.

 

[Snort]

Snort,

With your point about schools with 25 teams playing schools with 25 teams, which tier would Barker fall under? Consistently the school is in the top 2/3 in the CAS competition with relatively low teams. I'm just curious about what criterion would be most effective.

Well, I just picked 25 as an example. Very few school field 25 teams. I would have thought Barker was in the top tier because it usually has a decent number of teams (it's fielding 17 on Saturday). Waverley too, maybe Knox. One purely practical aspect of this is that you want to have two schools in each round playing each other in as many grades as possible (without the fixtures being filled out with matches against other random opponents).

 

[Joker]

Very few school field 25 teams..

Joeys have 41 rugby teams
But there are now 12 football teams.
How is the impact of football on CAS rugby? Are there more Football than Rugby?