NSW AAGPS Rugby 2014

[Inside Shoulder]

I'd love to believe that but the fact is that in some cases it doesn't matter if the whole school plays at their venue there are very few supporters left at 3:15.
Some schools in particular.

 

[Quick Hands]

Logistics are a big issue and by splitting the teams,the supporter base is unfortunately dissipated.

Logistics are an issue, how big they are depends on one's perspective. The big schools will always have the logistical issues of teams playing at multiple venues - no school can match Joeys for team numbers for example, so some Joeys teams will always face the logistical issue of being transported to and from different venues. Shore and Riverview face similar issues.

So if the "big" logistical issue is that the 3rds players can't back up for the seconds, then it's really quite minor in the scheme of things. If it's that important, have some fresh reserves on the bench or maybe use your 16As to bench for the 2nds. At many schools the 16As would probably be the preferred option anyway in terms of ability vis a vis the 3rds. Sounds like a lousy excuse to me.

Sometimes being part of an association means that one has to do things for the greater good, rather than for narrow self-interest.

 

[Freddo Frog]

How many rugby teams does each school have? So far:

Joeys 42
Scots 30

What about the others?

 

[aka_the_think]

Riverview has over 45 teams competing this Saturday in Rugby, though a few are years 5/6

 

[Quick Hands]

How many rugby teams does each school have? So far:

Joeys 42
Scots 30

What about the others?

I itemised this some pages back - maybe right at the start of the season. Can't find my figures now and not sure how to look up previous posts. Will try.

 

[Freddo Frog]

Thanks AKA, but for this exercise can we just restrict the count to 13's to Opens just for comparison? How many of them at View?

 

[Freddo Frog]

I itemised this some pages back - maybe right at the start of the season. Can't find my figures now and not sure how to look up previous posts. Will try.

Okay great, sorry I didn't see it earlier

 

[Quick Hands]

Okay great, sorry I didn't see it earlier

Here is the breakdown Rugby/Soccer

J 41/16
E 38/21
S 30/22
K 31/38
N 26/31
G 12/30
H 12/30
I ?

 

[aka_the_think]

Here is the breakdown Rugby/Soccer

J 41/16
E 38/21
S 30/22
K 31/38
N 26/31
G 12/30
H 12/30
I ?

Between 13s and Opens, as follows (for View):

AFL = 6
Soccer = 26
Rugby = 37 (can be more depending on certain circumstances)

 

[SonnyDillWilliams]

I repeat my comment I made on cas forum ... Can't these schools submit results to Buddha ... So it is easier scope out top of the table clashes in younger age groups

For instance sounds like last weeks joeys v view 15a is a usual arm wrestle ... 2 draws over last two meetings, unless I am mistaken

And this week scots v newington 14s might be a good game

What happened to that kid Tyrone taukamo ... Is whatever newington team he is in terrorising teams?

 

[Footydad]

Here is the breakdown Rugby/Soccer

J 41/16
E 38/21
S 30/22
K 31/38
N 26/31
G 12/30
H 12/30
I ?

The days of rugby being the dominate winter GPS sport are in jeopardy given these numbers! The issue of course,is that there is room for both sports on the winter calendar.
Like Rugby, GPS football is played at a high skill level and the games I have seen are certainly very willing.
I heard that Daniel Alessi stepped out of the SJC 1st XI in 2013 and played some games for the Western Sydney Wanderers in 2014.
The GPS Football Competition for 2014 starts this weekend. It is an eight(8) team competition comprising the Sydney based GPS schools,no TAS,playing each other once.Ie the good old rugby format.
The draw for this weekend is;
Riverview v Shore
Scots v Joeys
Grammar v Newington
Kings v High
I am not converted to football yet,but it's worth checking out the senior games on the way to the rugby.

 

[Jim Belshaw]

Between 13s and Opens, as follows (for View):

AFL = 6
Soccer = 26
Rugby = 37 (can be more depending on certain circumstances)

All these stats are interesting for a pattern person like me.

Wearing my economist/strategic consultant hat, we appear to have four or perhaps five schools (not sure about TAS) where the number of rugby players still exceeds the number of soccer players. Wasn't quite sure who the E was in one list, by the way A senior's moment?

If we just take a one on one competition among the big six, and assuming I understand the numbers, five of the six cannot guarantee a game for every team they have each week if minus the minnows.

If we just look at the minnows, they have half the number of boys playing as compared to the top six. If we look just at the top six, the smallest of the top six has 225 fewer boys playing than the largest school. That is a larger number of players than SGS or SBH has in total!

I don't have a solution to any of this. Just observing.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I repeat my comment I made on cas forum . Can't these schools submit results to Buddha . So it is easier scope out top of the table clashes in younger age groups

For instance sounds like last weeks joeys v view 15a is a usual arm wrestle . 2 draws over last two meetings, unless I am mistaken

And this week scots v newington 14s might be a good game

What happened to that kid Tyrone taukamo . Is whatever newington team he is in terrorising teams?

There is no table. There's no comp.
There's no glory to be had.
Let them just play.
Remember: there is no GPS team in under 16 NSW schools trials.

 

[Quick Hands]

All these stats are interesting for a pattern person like me.

Wearing my economist/strategic consultant hat, we appear to have four or perhaps five schools (not sure about TAS) where the number of rugby players still exceeds the number of soccer players. Wasn't quite sure who the E was in one list, by the way A senior's moment?

If we just take a one on one competition among the big six, and assuming I understand the numbers, five of the six cannot guarantee a game for every team they have each week if minus the minnows.

If we just look at the minnows, they have half the number of boys playing as compared to the top six. If we look just at the top six, the smallest of the top six has 225 fewer boys playing than the largest school. That is a larger number of players than SGS or SBH has in total!

I don't have a solution to any of this. Just observing.

E = Shore

 

[Jim Belshaw]

E = Shore

Thanks, QH. So the full rugby/soccer break-up appears to be:
J 41/16
Shore 38/21
I 37/26
K 31/28
S 30/22
N 26/31
A 13/17
G 12/30
H 12/30

 

[The Spaceman]

I have a son at Shore and another at Grammar, and I went to Kings, so I have been to plenty of rugby games and have seen it all over many decades. The current situation is great in the short term for the school that wins but it lowers playing #'s across all schools in 3,5,10 years time. I don't know much about the Riverview rugby program but I hope they beat Scots.

Completely understand, wasn't trying to call you out - no doubt everyone on this forum has watched more than their fair share of footy.

You definitely have a point and I guess I haven't realised just how drastically the numbers are diminishing?

I agree there's a problem but I think we're all overreacting a bit. I guess we don't want it to get to a whole basketball debacle but I actually like what's happening at the moment. I'm just waiting for the day an upset comes and Shore or Kings beat Scots or View. I mean we saw it last weekend with the TKS boors getting up against New (they didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of doing that last year).

I'm optimistic - as I think we should all be - that things will change. I know that boys in schools maybe not doing so well are more motivated to play just to get back at the school's that have embarrassed them in the top grade.

 

[Brainstrust]

Completely understand, wasn't trying to call you out - no doubt everyone on this forum has watched more than their fair share of footy.

You definitely have a point and I guess I haven't realised just how drastically the numbers are diminishing?

I agree there's a problem but I think we're all overreacting a bit. I guess we don't want it to get to a whole basketball debacle but I actually like what's happening at the moment. I'm just waiting for the day an upset comes and Shore or Kings beat Scots or View. I mean we saw it last weekend with the TKS boors getting up against New (they didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of doing that last year).

I'm optimistic - as I think we should all be - that things will change. I know that boys in schools maybe not doing so well are more motivated to play just to get back at the school's that have embarrassed them in the top grade.

Spot on Spaceman, when we step back and take breath, what happened with Kings beating Newington last weekend where they couldn't do it last is what inter school sport is about. Each year should be different, with naturally strong cohorts in one sport or another coming through in different schools. To balance that out, schools should strive to invest in training/ coaching ( not players) to strive to win. It's an incredibly important part of a young mans education to know that you train and push for excellence in everything you do, and that doesn't guarantee winning, it just means you can be proud you've done your best, and if beaten by a better coached, trained, fitter ( not purchased ) team then that's fine as well. I really hope that the schools persist with the 2 round format. Yes it's not great for a hand full of teams, but for the majority who play the sport that regularly attracts the greatest support from their school mates and other observers, it deserves to be given that respect. Until soccer etc is attracting bigger crowds, then the schools need to respect the history and interest that exists in school boy rugby.

 

[aka_the_think]

Spot on Spaceman, when we step back and take breath, what happened with Kings beating Newington last weekend where they couldn't do it last is what inter school sport is about. Each year should be different, with naturally strong cohorts in one sport or another coming through in different schools. To balance that out, schools should strive to invest in training/ coaching ( not players) to strive to win. It's an incredibly important part of a young mans education to know that you train and push for excellence in everything you do, and that doesn't guarantee winning, it just means you can be proud you've done your best, and if beaten by a better coached, trained, fitter ( not purchased ) team then that's fine as well. I really hope that the schools persist with the 2 round format. Yes it's not great for a hand full of teams, but for the majority who play the sport that regularly attracts the greatest support from their school mates and other observers, it deserves to be given that respect. Until soccer etc is attracting bigger crowds, then the schools need to respect the history and interest that exists in school boy rugby.

I couldn't agree more.

Thanks, QH. So the full rugby/soccer break-up appears to be:
J 41/16
Shore 38/21
I 37/26
K 31/28
S 30/22
N 26/31
A 13/17
G 12/30
H 12/30

Heads up, Shore only have 36 - count for yourself http://www.shore.nsw.edu.au/file.php?fileID=7339

 

[NewMacca]

I have long been a believer in a combined competition, but my proposal is potentially fraught with errors - I'm happy to try to iron them out though.

I would have a sort of multi-faceted structure to it.

Firstly, I'd have divisons - the top division wouldn't be based on merit (per se), but ability to field teams, with the requirement being ~6 teams per age group + 8 in the Opens, which I think a fair amount of schools could do - most GPS and CAS schools, if they tried, and maybe an ISA school or two.
I think that each team should be playing for some form of "premiership" - realistically this would involve an official points table, which could be easily managed online as the SJRU do. I know that ISA do this to an extent, and I think it would add value and meaning to those in lower teams. Further, you could award a shield to the school that does the best in each age group/across a junior-senior division/what ever other configuration you want, to point at organic change.
Significantly, I would ensure that every game is played against the correlating team of the opposition - for too long I've seen Riverview's 6th (for example) go up against Newington's 4ths (for example), only to lose and have the school's overall win-loss ratio for the day look worse.

Secondly, to maintain the obvious value of existing competitions - like the GPS, CAS, ISA, CHS etc - I'd have a conference system within each division that represents existing organisations - where possible. This basically ensures that the rivalries and traditions that have developed over (up to) hundreds of years) continue, as each team is assured a game with opposition within that conference. These conferences can still award a GPS premier based on results, and if it's the case that a few schools from within a conference aren't in a division (e.g. Grammar, High, TAS, and others being unable to field the required teams for Div. I) then they could negotiate to play the schools outside their division if they want, though it will only count towards an independent conference point system, not the overall standings.

This is largely modelled on the system used for College Football by the NCAA. I am not sure whether I'd support a finals series at this stage - even if I did I think it would be limited to the 1st XV, otherwise the entire idea of a School v School mentality across the age groups is undermined.

On a side note, the person who said that Riverview fails to match Shore in terms of numbers is in error. According to this http://www.shore.nsw.edu.au/file.php?fileID=7331, Shore has less teams in the 13s, less in the 14s, less in 15s, and the same in the 16s and Opens. Also worth noting that Riverview fields at least 2 AFL sides in U13, U15, and U17 divisions + in Opens has 10+ Soccer teams (the introduction of Socials soccer has been very successful).

Also, I am not sure that the quoted figure of 22/26 wins for Joeys over View is correct. I have a feeling that those stats include the wins that Joeys got over Armidale in the Cs, Es etc. in younger age groups. I swear I saw more "lost" suffixes when Joeys displayed the results at the end of the day.

Newington 4ths play all other schools 4ths unless the thirds are playing High, Grammar or Armidale, however the 5ths and 6ths will usually play 8ths/10ths just because those teams are at a closer level to New's 5ths and 6ths, otherwise there would be 50 + score lines every week

 

[NewMacca]

I completely disagree. If you had been to any GPS game EVER you would realise that GPS rugby is a hell of a lot more than just the 1st XV comp. Take Shore, a school that didn't win a game last year and yet there were crowds there as big as there has ever been, even at the end of the season. Grammar and High were relegated because the school stopped having fun at the rugby - and fair enough.

But this will never happen to the remaining six schools. It's just at the present time some schools are going through good cycles, some are going through bad and they've lined up perfectly.

Last year everyone wanted to watch Scots vs Newington play. This year the game of the season will be Scots vs View. Who knows, next year it might be Shore v Kings that attracts thousands of spectators.


PS: 2 things that grind my gears on this forum.

1. Suggestion that rugby is/could be promoted as a career path at a school level made me physically ill.

2. Calls for Shore to be relegated - Scots 4ths vs Shore 2nds would be more lopsided than if they both just played like normal. Ridiculous.



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I agree with both of those things. First rugby as a career is a lot more dependent on physical ability. Almost anyone could get a normal office job but people of a certain size and skillset that has been fine tuned over at least 5 years of hard training both inside and outside of schools are needed for rugby. Second to that, the incredibly limited amount of professional rugby players is nothing to do with the rugby not being promoted as a career path, it is due to the fact that there is such a limited amount of professional positions worldwide. Thirdly IT IS NOT A CAREER PATH! You may be able to play rugby till mid-30s with a professional team, but what after that. Some might get picked up as commentators/pundits or go into a coaching career, but most have to go on to find a whole new career.

For the second: In all my time playing rugby at school in the lower grades, I never beat Shore, a lot of those times included playing teams of a lower grade (i.e. me in the D's/C's playing Shore E's/F's), so relegating them would cause kids in my position (D's/C's) playing Shore A's/B's which would be completely unfair.


Well that's my 2 cents