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NSW AAGPS Rugby 2011

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barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Am with you here, Barbie...

However to be fair re Shore in 2006, they came out of nowwhere to beat View in the last round when View already had won the premiership after beating Kings and Joeys, if my memory serves me right, in the two weeks preceding, and had not figured in the premiership calculations at all earlier on in the season when the GPS teams were picked.

Don't know what you are thinking of there Nusa, in 2006 View knocked off Shore in the last round for a share of the title after Shore toppled Joeys at Hunters Hill a few rounds previous. The only other time Shore has won the title in recent times was 1998, where they beat Joeys in the last round to get a share.
 

jakub

Frank Row (1)
I only have the joeys people that made gps for 2004 and 2006. In 2004 all 15 members of 1st xv made gps, 8 in gps 1st and 7 in gps 2nds.combined gps first and seconds won both there games against CAS and CHS. In 2006 16 players from joeys made gps combined but i do not know of these 16 players wich team for gps they were in
 

jakub

Frank Row (1)
ohh and another thing 2004 joeys,10 joeys players made nsw combined-NSW 1sts were undefeated at the australian schoolboy championship in 2004, 2006 10 boys from joeys made nws combined:)
 

RugbyNut101

Peter Burge (5)
Theres a lot of talk about how scots and joeys are over represented and iggies have only 3 players in the 1st and there an undefeated side. Scots are a different team that played iggies in the second round on trials. They didn't have stewart, no herden, no 'magical' kellaway. The team scots should be judged on is the teams scots has fielded since they played newington.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Theres a lot of talk about how scots and joeys are over represented and iggies have only 3 players in the 1st and there an undefeated side. Scots are a different team that played iggies in the second round on trials. They didn't have stewart, no herden, no 'magical' kellaway. The team scots should be judged on is the teams scots has fielded since they played newington.

That is a situation hardly unique to Scots though. Each team experimented with different combinations in the trials, and only fielded a top side in the comp proper.
 

Spewn

Alex Ross (28)
I only have the joeys people that made gps for 2004 and 2006. In 2004 all 15 members of 1st xv made gps, 8 in gps 1st and 7 in gps 2nds.combined gps first and seconds won both there games against CAS and CHS. In 2006 16 players from joeys made gps combined but i do not know of these 16 players wich team for gps they were in

Thanks. Like to see the other school numbers.
 
J

jayden

Guest
I have watched every view game this season, the best flyhalf we played by a country mile was shores 10. I am trying to look at these selections as a non supporter but ill go back to my original point. An undefeated team, with 3 representatives in the 1s!
Scots have changed flyhalves since the view game to Dave Horwitz who has torn up the last 3 games, and should have made gps 1s. But i do agree the King - Deegan decision is nothing short of ludicrous
 
B

baldingwingforward

Guest
Scots have changed flyhalves since the view game to Dave Horwitz who has torn up the last 3 games, and should have made gps 1s. But i do agree the King - Deegan decision is nothing short of ludicrous

IMO There are 4 terrible decisions:

Roods in the 2s behind the Joeys 13
King not getting picked at all!
Wileman not getting picked at all!

But the worst one of the lot is still Kulen getting put on the bench in 3s!! He has caused every team serious problems at scrums. As you go up the rep ladder you need to be able to scrummage. He is the best scrummaging prop in the GPS BY far. He might not run the ball as much as some of the others which is probably why he didn't get selected, but that just shows how much the selectors don't know about rugby and scrummaging in particular!
 

Spewn

Alex Ross (28)
2006 Scots 8 Shore 7 Joeys 15 Kings 8 View 9 New 2 Grammar 5

2007 Scots 7 Shore 8 Joeys 9 Kings 8 View 8 New 9 Grammar 3

2008 No stats although Grammar had 4

2009 Scots 7 Shore 5 Joeys 7 Kings 13 View 10 New 11 Grammar 2

2010 Scots 8 Shore 4 Joeys 8 Kings 12 View 8 New 10 Grammar 3

Grammar has had 15 reps from 2006 to 2011, 9 of which were in 3s or reserves for 3s. At least 10 should have been in 1s or 2s.
 

northman91

Frank Nicholson (4)
2006 Scots 8 Shore 7 Joeys 15 Kings 8 View 9 New 2 Grammar 5

2007 Scots 7 Shore 8 Joeys 9 Kings 8 View 8 New 9 Grammar 3

2008 No stats although Grammar had 4

2009 Scots 7 Shore 5 Joeys 7 Kings 13 View 10 New 11 Grammar 2

2010 Scots 8 Shore 4 Joeys 8 Kings 12 View 8 New 10 Grammar 3

Grammar has had 15 reps from 2006 to 2011, 9 of which were in 3s or reserves for 3s. At least 10 should have been in 1s or 2s.

Sorry I have do disagree with you there. Grammar has had some standout players throughout the past years such as Lachlan Rosegreen (GPS 1s) and Cam Crawford (GPS 2s behind Kurtley). Last year many people were arguing that James Graham should have been in GPS 1s, there was no way he was playing better than the people ahead of him such as Boyd Killingworth and Tom Connor. His selection in the 3rds was where he deserved to be. When there has been a talented Grammar player they have been selected in a high team. Also Hugh Hawkins is another name that comes to mind who as in GPS 1s from grammar.

In regards to the minimal selection of Riverview boys:
Yes they are undefeated and have beaten heavyweight Newington and Shore. But the reason for this is that they play well together as a team. Whereas a star studded newington line up failed to do so. An example of this as mentioned earlier was Shore in 2006. Yes they had barely any one in GPS teams, but to be honest they didnt have any players that deserved to be in GPS 1s and only a couple that deserved to be in GPS 2s. They way they won the shared premiership was playing well together as a team.

In 2009 Newington had 13 players making GPS teams (3 who are currently in Aus U20s). On paper they had the best team in the comp but finished 2nd last ahead of Grammar.

Last year Kings had 8 Aus Schoolboys but ended up losing 2 games.

Being on top of the ladder requires all 15 to play well as a team. GPS selections are based on individual talent. Hence why Riverview may feel underdone in regards to selections.
 

Spewn

Alex Ross (28)
Thanks.

2008 Scots 3 Shore 8 Kings 13 Joeys 8 View 8 New11 Grammar 4

Having done that exercise not sure I can say there are any trends other than Scots have increased their numbers from 2008, New from 2007 and View, Joeys and Kings fluctuate perhaps due to quality of the particular year's team.

PS Appropriate disclaimer for the accuracy of my counting.
 
M

meathead

Guest
Sam Baraket from scots is a very promising player, i would not be suprised to see him picked in at 1,3,6 or 8 for the NSW side. He's got the strength, skill, technique and fitness a NSW player should have. He got a run in the 2s last year, and should be starting 1s this year with his recent performances
 

jacksbar1960

Frank Row (1)
I agree , Joeys backrow were totally missing, team did not show any of the ticker that Joeys is renowned for. Only exception was Kovacic who totally deserves his GPS selection.
Worst performance by Joeys open teams in memory. Coaches need to have a good look at themselves to see where they have gone wrong. Time for CHANGE!!!!!!
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
IMO There are 4 terrible decisions:

Roods in the 2s behind the Joeys 13
King not getting picked at all!
Wileman not getting picked at all!

But the worst one of the lot is still Kulen getting put on the bench in 3s!! He has caused every team serious problems at scrums. As you go up the rep ladder you need to be able to scrummage. He is the best scrummaging prop in the GPS BY far. He might not run the ball as much as some of the others which is probably why he didn't get selected, but that just shows how much the selectors don't know about rugby and scrummaging in particular!

There were some bizarre selections weren't there?

They picked the Newington bookends after all, yet you reported on how Kulen tore Ezrah a new one in the scrums. It's an odd selection omission. Unfortunately I don't think that playing against the CAS scrum will reveal a lot of scrummaging deficiencies but CHS will be a good benchmark: they have a good scrum. It will be too late for Kulen though unless he gets some meaningful scrummaging from the bench tomorrow.

I wouldn't have picked 10. Deegan for the IIIs ahead of King either. The Shore flyhalf is a fine player and Deegs should be playing later in the year in the U/16s. Although he plays in a robust manner Deegan doesn't have the physique to match it and I'm sure that not being selected for Opens rep rugby would sit better with his family also.

After one viewing of him I wasn't too surprised that Wileman missed out. He has a power fend and is hard to stop but Barclay was better on the matchup when Shore played Joeys. I didn't expect the Joeys Yr. 11 lad to be selected ahead of Roods though. I would have reversed the selections.



As for the ratio of players selected from each school: that is always random and I have never been excited by it any more than I am by senior players being picked for a World XV. The number of Joeys lads chosen is remarkable though. Guilfoyle is a good hooker but his lineout throwing can be problematic. I think this position is a weakness in the GPS and the 2nd row is not well endowed either - as the selection of 7. Whitely as lock for the IIs and Sandell as a reserve attests. Sandell is another Joeys player eligible for U/16s.

Joeys players 5. Kovacic and 15. Le Lievre were expected selections, though LeLievre may not be fit to play. He stubbed his foot on the ground kicking a conversion on Saturday, did his leg a mischief and had to hobble off. 14. Wilde picked for the IIs has been playing well: he is elusive and fast enough but his selection indicates a shortage of wingers who are also good footie players. I'm a bit surprised that 9. Kay (and 10. Deegan) were picked for the IIIs. There may be some logic to playing the Joeys boys together but it's still a bit of a surprise after Saturday's game as Kay, a flyhalf really, needs to work on his pass from the deck.

The selection of Joeys 3. Hall for the IIIs is reasonable, though the Joeys scrum is not stellar. He is a goer around the rucks and other parts of the park. I didn't expect Joeys 1. Robertson to be in the IIIs though. Like other Joeys players: Wilde, Sandell, Deegan, Kay and brave little 7. Murphy, another reserve, I expected his chance to come next year.



Getting away from Hunters Hill: I was looking forward to watching 14. Kellaway on the weekend after reading a bit of forum hype on him. He finished off one of the Scots many breakout movements for a try but was fairly quiet. The selectors would have seen more of him than I have though.

No such faint praise for team mate 12. Stewart. He didn't take my eye in U/16s last year but plays like a senior player does now. Another TSC player, 8. Baraket, picked for the IIs, impressed me on Saturday also. He was in the TSC Twos when I saw him in the trials but he had a cracking match and has obviously stepped up since then. I'm picking him to be a fine senior 7 when he leaves school.

I was surprised that 6. Dempsey is in the IIs instead of the Is, though not as much as with some of the other selections I have have mentioned.

I agree with Foketi being chosen at 12. for the IIs and not on the wing in the Is, because some of his talents would be lost out wider. I'd look for him playing 12 in the Is next year though. Even this year he could prove himself as a rep inside centre and do his chances of being picked as a NSW utility player no harm at all.
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jockmac

Frank Row (1)
GPS selections

i feel that scots amount of representatives in the GPS squad (13) is indicative of their fast start to the season, totalling kings and beating newington i believe. this is correct as their team has i believe too much class for many of the other teams with horwitz at 10, a deserved selection. Newington got the number of representatives that deserved spots, 2 more Questions "does any one know the score of Joeys v Scots and "GPS u'16 teams?"
 
B

baldingwingforward

Guest
i feel that scots amount of representatives in the GPS squad (13) is indicative of their fast start to the season, totalling kings and beating newington i believe. this is correct as their team has i believe too much class for many of the other teams with horwitz at 10, a deserved selection. Newington got the number of representatives that deserved spots, 2 more Questions "does any one know the score of Joeys v Scots and "GPS u'16 teams?"

Does that "fast start" include getting pumped 44-12 by Riverview? Yes i know they have some new backs and positional changes since then, but their forwards are the same and they were shown up badly... But amazingly their whole front row (pretty much their whole pack) 6 out of 8 forwards get picked as the GPS 2s. Unbelievable!

Joeys vs Scots was 44-25 or something like that to Scots.

GPS 16s teams - in the paper today. Have a look for them there.
 
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