NSW AAGPS 2019

[ItsNotPink]

Great summary INP.

In relation to Newington in the 3rds, I've made some further enquiries since it last came up on the threads. When the decision was made to go to one round, another issue raised was that schools such as Joeys have over 40 teams while Newington has around 25. When TAS is added to Newington there's about 35 teams when numbers are combined. So when everyone else's 1sts play Newington, their 3rds play TAS and Newington play the 4ths of the bigger school and TAS 2nds play their 5ths. Not ideal, but that was what was agreed upon to keep TAS in the 3rds. The way the draw is constructed when TAS play High then Grammar are paired with Newington as per the above. It's not ideal for anyone, but like all compromises it makes things work for the majority.

I'd much rather see Newington in the 3rds. We'd never win it, but we'd be at least competitive with High and Kings which won zero and one game in 3rds this year. Not being in 3rds also means that after over 120 years of fixtures that Newington no longer has games against Grammar or High, which I think is sad.

Thanks for the explanation Quick Hands. I did not realise that it was so complex but it only illustrates the difficulty in making the competitions work for all GPS schools in all grades.

 

[Johnny come lately]

There's no such think as a 5ths comp. And they play other school's 4ths because TAS 1sts play in the Newington spot in the 3rds. TAS 2nds play other school's 5ths.

And there's no 4ths comp either.

Joeys were one of the main proponents of changes introduced because they didn't want their 3rds going to Armidale and they found it was more difficult to arrange multiple buses to different venues because they had many more teams than Newington. (See discussion on the thread the year before the reversion to a one round competition)

You've made an assumption that the change was (a) requested by Newington and (b) is of some advantage to Newington when neither is correct. In fact having to play other school's 4ths is a huge disadvantage for the Newington 2nds because reserves and players moving up to cover injury go from playing against 4th teams to playing against 2nds teams which is a huge jump.

If Newington play 3rds, then other things have to change as well. And it would a significant number of unmatched fixtures for Joeys and Riverview in particular and introduce a bye into the 3rds competition or one of TAS, Grammar or High would have to leave the 3rds competition. A 9 week 3rds competition doesn't work with a 5 week 1sts competition, it only works with a 10 week two round firsts competition.

I beg to differ. At least at Joeys, each team is playing for a pennant if they are undefeated.

When, for example, Newington skip 3rds and 4ths and as a result their real 3rds are playing 5ths it distorts that playing level.

Fair enough there is not a shield or a title to each competition level but tell that to the boys that train and play for an undefeated pennant but are effectively robbed when things like this happen.

 

[Black & White]

“Newington

Newington did not field a team in the 3rd XV competition this year, and as Quick Hands has pointed out it was largely due to the reduction of 1st XV and 2nd XV competitions to a single round, and to a lesser extent due to fewer Newington Open teams playing.

This is a huge shame in my opinion. It appears that Newington 3rd XV played 5th XV teams from many other schools and I believe the 3rd XV comp would be greatly enhanced by having Newington play in it.”

Annnd let me guess. New won the 5th XV comp?

Hello Johnny Come Lately

This predicament is also due the fact that Newington has a small boarding house, so they have to rely on day boys to field teams. In year 12 the long ravel, tends to discourage participation in Rugby together within the background of the HSC or the IB. Additionally, soccer and now Aussie Rules take their share of potential rugby players.

I believe Newington Rugby when you consider the obstacles it faces, does a very good job of fielding the teams it does.

 

[Quick Hands]

I beg to differ. At least at Joeys, each team is playing for a pennant if they are undefeated.

When, for example, Newington skip 3rds and 4ths and as a result their real 3rds are playing 5ths it distorts that playing level.

Fair enough there is not a shield or a title to each competition level but tell that to the boys that train and play for an undefeated pennant but are effectively robbed when things like this happen.

I'm not sure if you're trying to be deliberately provocative or you're just not reading what I'm typing. I've typed it at least three times, so I'll put it in block capitals this time so you get it.

NEWINGTON 3RDS DO NOT PLAY 5THS - THEY PLAY 4THS.

TAS 1STS PLAY IN THE 3RDS SLOT WHEN NEWINGTON PLAY THAT SCHOOL

TAS 2NDS PLAY THE OTHER SCHOOL'S 5THS

IT'S NOT A NEWINGTON DECISION IT'S AN AAGPS DECISION.

IT'S PART OF THE COMPLEX ARRANGEMENTS WHICH ALLOW TAS, HIGH AND GRAMMAR TO PLAY THEIR 1STS TEAMS IN THE 3RDS COMPETITION

IF NEWINGTON PLAY IN THE 3RDS THEN ONE OF THOSE SCHOOLS HAVE TO LEAVE THE 3RDS.

JOEYS PUSHED THIS ARRANGEMENT SO THAT THEIR TEAMS DIDN'T HAVE TO FIND SO MANY UNMATCHED FIXTURES

EDIT: Your memory seems a little faulty on this. I'll refer you back to one of the discussions on the issue way back in 2017. You'll even find an entry of yours on the page in question.

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/nsw-aagps-2017.17032/page-62#post-933276

Strange that you don't seem to have a problem with your 3rds team playing a 1sts team, but you have a problem with a 3rds team playing your 4ths.

 

[Johnny come lately]

You are quite right, i don’t have a problem with a team playing up, if they are up to it and its safe.

I do have an issue with a team from a school that is competitive playing down, particularly if its gives them an advantage. The GPS has been rife with this over the years.

As for the rest of your rant, Don’t drink and post is my advice.

 

[Kenny Powers]

I beg to differ. At least at Joeys, each team is playing for a pennant if they are undefeated.

When, for example, Newington skip 3rds and 4ths and as a result their real 3rds are playing 5ths it distorts that playing level.

Fair enough there is not a shield or a title to each competition level but tell that to the boys that train and play for an undefeated pennant but are effectively robbed when things like this happen.

Lets deal with available facts according to Joeys twitter feed, the Newington / Joeys round saw

Joeys 3rds played Shore won 26 -10

Joeys 4ths played St Pats 1st and won 15 -10

Joeys 5ths played Newington 3rd and lost 12 - 26

Joeys 7ths played Newington 4ths and won 24-21

What we don't know is did the Joey's sports master take the St Pat's game in preference to sending the Joeys 4ths to Newington, was there some obligation to play St Pat's.?

Regardless games were competitive, boys got to run around and have a game of rugby, so well done to the administrators of all schools on the playing arrangement they are achieved this objective rather than the vainglorious goal of an 'undefeated pennant'.

An undefeated pennant outside of the top 1 or 2 graded teams in an age group is a concept about 25 years past it's used by date given the relative playing numbers between schools.

Getting a game is great, being competitive even better, boys enjoying their rugby and wanting to play on after school this would be the ultimate goal for school rugby administrators. Vainglorious parents and their undefeated pennants would not be on the agenda for these school rugby administrators unless they wanted to ruin their professional reputation.

 

[Johnny come lately]

‘Joeys 5ths played Newington 3rd and lost 12 - 26’... Higher team plays down, wins and takes genuine teams chance of undef away. Its just not cool, sorry.

So now we promote competitions where its about ‘getting a run’ over the ability to win?

Sure, winning isn’t everything but sheesh. Lets remove scorelines then and just play a game for ‘fun’ with no winner or loser but ‘everyone is a winner’....

Get real.

 

[RogerScots82]

3rd XV Season in Review & Final Observations

ItsNotPink, what you said about the scots 3rd XV is spot on, i really enjoyed watching these boys play this year they had some very classy players (the fullback) and some big forwards punching through the middle. I just stumbled across a highlights reel from them, geez some of these boys can play:

This review wraps up the 3rd XV season that we have all been following closely J, and also includes some comments relevant to GPS rugby generally. I apologise for the length, but I hope it’s worthwhile.



The 3rd XV competition was conducted this year with 1st XV teams from TAS, Grammar and High playing 3rd XV teams from Shore, Riverview, Joeys, Kings and Scots. Newington did not field a team in the 3rd XV competition in 2019.



Joeys (7 wins 0 losses = 14 Points)

Congratulations to the Joeys 3rd XV for an undefeated championship in 2019. Joeys demonstrated great resilience throughout the season, coming from behind on several occasions to maintain their unbeaten record. This team was extremely well coached and proudly represented St Joseph’s College to claim the Col Windon Shield which looks pretty good alongside the School Challenge Trophy andthe W.S. Corr Cup.



TAS (5 wins 2 losses = 10 points)
TAS started the season with a loss to Joeys in Armidale, while missing a number of players. They followed this match with five straight wins and looked like premiership contenders through the middle of the season. A final round loss to Riverview found them in equal second and while a shared premiership with Joeys was not to be, they had an excellent competition.

Congratulations to the two TAS players selected for Combined GPS – a great achievement.

Without revisiting the eloquent posts of other forum members, I think it’s fair to say that the challenges facing TAS going forward are significant. Like many schools, they are subject to diminishing rugby player numbers, but they have the added complication of having to travel large distances for the majority of their games. Nevertheless, there is a great rugby spirit and tradition at TAS – this is obvious to anyone who visits – and it would be a great shame if this was lost. A strong TAS presence in the 3rd XV competition is really important for GPS rugby and should be a continued priority for all GPS schools and the AAGPS.

Riverview (5 wins 2 losses = 10 points)

The defending premiers were undefeated through four rounds, then encountered Joeys and Grammar for back to back losses. Key players were lost to injury and the team had some challenges in the final rounds but bounced back to defeat TAS in a shortened round 7 match. No doubt they will return stronger than ever in 2020.


Grammar (4 wins 1 draw 2 losses = 9 points)

Grammar came close this season but lost a couple of key games against Joeys and TAS. They had four strong wins including a round 6 win over Riverview. Grammar are certainly holding their own in this competition and there is absolutely no reason why they cannot make a resurgence in the coming seasons.

Congratulations to the two Sydney Grammar players selected for Combined GPS – very well deserved.

Shore (3 wins 4 losses = 6 points)

Shore started the season with three straight losses, but things started to look up from there and they won three of their last four games, only dropping a game to Grammar by a single point. So while the Shore 1st XV this year had an extremely tough season, the 3rd XV was figured well in this competition and demonstrated that there is still a lot of life left in Shore rugby.

I won’t revisit all of the discussion around this – except to say that I am confident that Shore can rebuild capability across all grades in the coming seasons, especially if their impressive 15As are any indication.

Scots (2 wins 1 draw 4 losses = 5 points)

Having seen Scots 3rd XV play at Hunters Hill last Saturday, I am genuinely surprised that they only won two games this year. They are a team with a lot of heart and a lot of ability. Their big forwards were present in the tight contest and they showed promise in attack. I am sure they would have liked to finish higher on the table, but they demonstrated great character and teamwork in their game.

Kings (1 win 6 losses = 2 points)

I think it goes without saying that Kings would be disappointed to only win one game this year. After their first round victory over High they had six straight losses. All schools have their ups and downs, so I don’t think there is cause for concern. I will be interested to watch developments in 2020 as Kings will be retaining a number of younger players currently in their open grades.

High (0 wins 7 losses = 0 points)

Firstly, congratulations to the Sydney Boys High 1st XV team, coaches and parents. All credit for playing this season with determination and character, never giving up and demonstrating great courage. It’s tough playing all season without a win, but High never threw in the towel and that’s what GPS rugby is all about.

However, it was disappointing to be standing on the sideline at Mackay Oval when High played Joeys with the smallest crowd that I have ever seen at a GPS match, watching a great game of rugby that should have been seen by a huge crowd of supporters from both schools. A far cry from the thousands who cheered on High’s 1st XV to victory over Joeys 1st XV in 1973! (Ok it’s a long time ago but I was there.)

Part of this is logistical because the 3rd XV draw often does not align with the other games that a school plays, but in High’s case it is disappointing that support in 2019 is limited to a small number of enthusiastic parents, coaches and players. The way it stands currently, High is at risk of dropping out of this competition completely unless they get a broader intake of rugby players, create more depth and generate greater support for the game. GPS rugby needs a strong SBHS 1st XV!

Newington

Newington did not field a team in the 3rd XV competition this year, and as Quick Hands has pointed out it was largely due to the reduction of 1st XV and 2nd XV competitions to a single round, and to a lesser extent due to fewer Newington Open teams playing.

This is a huge shame in my opinion. It appears that Newington 3rd XV played 5th XV teams from many other schools and I believe the 3rd XV comp would be greatly enhanced by having Newington play in it. Yes, I know that probably means a bye for one team each week and a longer competition, but as far as I’m concerned it’s not a complete GPS competition unless all GPS teams play. Bring back the Black & White!



Thanks for listening to me this year and good luck to all of the schools in 2020.

 

[ItsNotPink]

Great highlights reel RogerScots82.
This is exactly what I was talking about.
How good is the Scots fullback!
And some great tries from the winger.
Great rugby all round.

 

[RogerScots82]

yeah some quality players, from what i heard the 15 'pulled a jack Maddocks' after playing firsts and seconds in yr 11 he chose to drop down to thirds.

Great highlights reel RogerScots82.
This is exactly what I was talking about.
How good is the Scots fullback!
And some great tries from the winger.
Great rugby all round.

 

[Simmo1990]

I Didn't get to contribute much through the season but was a very keen follower of this thread. I got back down from the Central Coast to watch the last game Vs Scots and what a brutal encounter. I thought the forwards for Joeys again dominated the Scots forwards and every time the Scots backs got the ball they looked like they wanted to score every play. Joeys were very patient even in the backline (they weren't that patient in the game I saw them against Riverview). Again I thought the backline were sublime for Joeys....The 10 was again outstanding as were the rest of the backs from him. I still think the 9 for Joeys got to the breakdown very quickly and gave good ball for the backs to run on from there. My mates son said there were a lot of the Joeys first 15 in year 11 this year and watching the 2nd's they also look very dominant. Looks like some successful years ahead for the Joeys school.....Bring on 2020, I plan to get to more games next season (I'm hooked) and contribute more.....Now bring on the World Cup!

 

[Joker]

This is a rare photo of all three teams winning the championship (undefeated).
Last time this happened was 1957

 

[formerflanker]

This is a rare photo of all three teams winning the championship (undefeated).
Last time this happened was 1957

A proud moment for all concerned.
I'm sure many a pool room will see this hanging from a wall.

 

[ItsNotPink]

A proud moment for all concerned.
I'm sure many a pool room will see this hanging from a wall.

I've already got a spot on the wall...

 

[FootyGuy]

I Didn't get to contribute much through the season but was a very keen follower of this thread. I got back down from the Central Coast to watch the last game Vs Scots and what a brutal encounter. I thought the forwards for Joeys again dominated the Scots forwards and every time the Scots backs got the ball they looked like they wanted to score every play. Joeys were very patient even in the backline (they weren't that patient in the game I saw them against Riverview). Again I thought the backline were sublime for Joeys..The 10 was again outstanding as were the rest of the backs from him. I still think the 9 for Joeys got to the breakdown very quickly and gave good ball for the backs to run on from there. My mates son said there were a lot of the Joeys first 15 in year 11 this year and watching the 2nd's they also look very dominant. Looks like some successful years ahead for the Joeys school...Bring on 2020, I plan to get to more games next season (I'm hooked) and contribute more...Now bring on the World Cup!

There will be a few backing up but mainly in the forwards. There is only the fullback Dowling, in year 11 from the Joeys Firsts backline. This will be the big test as the Joeys backline was the difference in my opinion over the other teams.

BTW does anyone know when the Aussie Schoolboys and Barbarian teams get selected?

 

[D'Lite Full]

23rd September. Barbarians team selected. Check out www.schoolsrugby.com.au

 

[runningrugbyrules]

Alright gentleman, seeing as there is a bit of time to fill before next season, I would love to know your thoughts on the 10 best GPS champion teams for all time. I have mine below and I'm am going off what I have seen from the early nineties and heard along the way. I am sure you will all have different views (especially Joker) but it's a good way to fill the time. My list is only for outright Champions.

1) 1991 Joeys
2) 2014 Scots
3) 2002 Kings
4) 1993 Scots
5) 1996 Riverview
6) 1995 Joeys
7) 2010 Newington
8) 1997 Kings
9) 1973 High
10) 1981 Joeys

Was googling when I saw this post, I’m not sure how the View 96 is ranked as they got thumped by the Joeys 95 team by 20 points + I think. Half the team then repeated to beat Joeys in 96. If half of Joeys 95 repeated they would have thumped them again. Joeys 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 94 , 95 were all better than View 96, and by a mile !