NSW AAGPS 2017

[Black & White]

I don't think it's complacency - they have made considered changes over the years.
They have won 9 premierships, the last in 2006. They are historically not that good.
Grammar have won 13.
Kings 25, with 2 in the last 10 years
SJC heaps
SIC 6 with 4 in the last 10 years.
Newington - 8, with 3 of those in the last 10 years.
Scots - 10, with 4 of those is the last 10 years. And one in 1993 - their centenary.
So 3 of the historically least successful schools in rugby have won 11 premierships in the last 10 years (explained by shared premierships).
Leaving aside the false and misleading perception of 2 of them concerning their rugby pedigree, what is it about the last 10 years that has seen such a seismic shift in performance?
Hmmmmmmmmm. I wonder.

Hello IS, its actually 11, with four in the last 7 years. 2010,2012,2013 & 2015. 2013& 2015 were joint premierships with Scots. I suspect Scots will be getting Number 5 this year, although Kings might provide an upset.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Hello IS, its actually 11, with four in the last 7 years. 2010,2012,2013 & 2015. 2013& 2015 were joint premierships with Scots. I suspect Scots will be getting Number 5 this year, although Kings might provide an upset.

Ok - only makes me wonder more as to why there's a bustle in the hedgerow at the hotel california

 

[Paddogreen]

Ha ha Grammar – 13 premierships, indeed yes. 3 in the 1800s, 11 by 1929. If we are talking Post WW2, Grammar are the worst performing school. The LAST 50 YEARS IT IS ZERO, ZIP, ZILCH…To put Grammar in the same bracket as Joeys, Kings, is just hilarious.

 

[GTPIH]

Grammar's last win was in 1967, so that's ONE, UNO, UN, UM, EINS... in the last 50 years!!!

 

[Dutchy]

Given SJC complete historical dominance, think Shore picked up their share of the scraps.

But interestingly, SJC, the most successful rugby school on the planet unable to secure a premiership over the same said 10 years.

HMMMM

What makes this even more interesting is that during this 10 years SJC still remain the standout school within the 16 year age group.

What happens to those that dominate aged 16 when they hit Year 11 & 12?

Take this year as an example, the boys in Year 12 his year at SJC went through undefeated when in Year 10.

I have my theories but as a relative new-comer to GPS rugby I'm most likely wrong.

 

[The Honey Badger]

What makes this even more interesting is that during this 10 years SJC still remain the standout school within the 16 year age group.

What happens to those that dominate aged 16 when they hit Year 11 & 12?

Take this year as an example, the boys in Year 12 his year at SJC went through undefeated when in Year 10.

I have my theories but as a relative new-comer to GPS rugby I'm most likely wrong.

This is the place to put theories forward. Would love to hear them. Don't be scared, what's the worst that could happen?

Sent from my F3115 using Tapatalk

 

[Rugby Survivor]

Not sure Dutchy but maybe ask the schools that have either won outright or shared the last 5 premierships.
Maybe they know the answer!

 

[HeresToRugby]

What makes this even more interesting is that during this 10 years SJC still remain the standout school within the 16 year age group.

What happens to those that dominate aged 16 when they hit Year 11 & 12?

Take this year as an example, the boys in Year 12 his year at SJC went through undefeated when in Year 10.

I have my theories but as a relative new-comer to GPS rugby I'm most likely wrong.

There would be a number of theories and conspiracies but one that stands out to me is that other schools have been pushing some of their 16s into opens a year early for a number of years now whereas Joeys has only decided this year to really adopt this strategy. They have in the past brought up standouts such as Deegan and Sandell but other than that rarely pushed it unless injuries demanded it part way through the season.

There is no doubt in my mind we were behind the times and rugby camps experience were rarely offered to the younger brigade where much learning could take place getting them ready for the comp in later years.

This has had a double effect - less experience (only one or two years in the opens) and strengthened Joeys' ability to win 16As comps.

 

[Dutchy]

There would be a number of theories and conspiracies but one that stands out to me is that other schools have been pushing some of their 16s into opens a year early for a number of years now whereas Joeys has only decided this year to really adopt this strategy. They have in the past brought up standouts such as Deegan and Sandell but other than that rarely pushed it unless injuries demanded it part way through the season.

There is no doubt in my mind we were behind the times and rugby camps experience were rarely offered to the younger brigade where much learning could take place getting them ready for the comp in later years.

This has had a double effect - less experience (only one or two years in the opens) and strengthened Joeys' ability to win 16As comps.

That's true and most likely one of many contributing factors, another is not doing a formal off season training program eg focusing on Power, Strength & Conditioning etc. Boys are obliged to take a summer sport and rugby training is not allowed. I'm not saying this is a bad thing just a contributing factor.

Would I be right in thinking some of the other GPS schools do formal off season training?

Within the Joey's 1st forward pack there are 3 boys that would be lucky to weigh over 85 kg and I'd love to see how their strength compares to those in other schools.

 

[Quick Hands]

I don't think it's complacency - they have made considered changes over the years.
They have won 9 premierships, the last in 2006. They are historically not that good.
Grammar have won 13.
Kings 25, with 2 in the last 10 years
SJC heaps
SIC 6 with 4 in the last 10 years.
Newington - 8, with 3 of those in the last 10 years.
Scots - 10, with 4 of those is the last 10 years. And one in 1993 - their centenary.
So 3 of the historically least successful schools in rugby have won 11 premierships in the last 10 years (explained by shared premierships).
Leaving aside the false and misleading perception of 2 of them concerning their rugby pedigree, what is it about the last 10 years that has seen such a seismic shift in performance?
Hmmmmmmmmm. I wonder.

There's well documeted issues with two schools on the other thread, but I suspect it's more complex than that. Shore's results are down across the board. I've spoken to parents at the school (who are also old boys) and there's been some frustration that things are always done how they have always been done, but the world has moved on (for better or worse). Even on these threads we've heard from frustrated Shore parents in relation to organisation and coaching.

Any school which doesn't put high quality coaching in their 13s age group is making difficult for themselves. There seems to have been some action in this regard as the 13s at Shore look good and are highly competitive.

 

[Quick Hands]

Given SJC complete historical dominance, think Shore picked up their share of the scraps.

But interestingly, SJC, the most successful rugby school on the planet unable to secure a premiership over the same said 10 years.

HMMMM

Only just over half the school are now boarders - which is a big factor. Up until 1996 SJC was 100% boarders and boarding has gradually declined in the 20 years since. I suspect that there is at least some correlation there.

 

[Quick Hands]

There would be a number of theories and conspiracies but one that stands out to me is that other schools have been pushing some of their 16s into opens a year early for a number of years now whereas Joeys has only decided this year to really adopt this strategy. They have in the past brought up standouts such as Deegan and Sandell but other than that rarely pushed it unless injuries demanded it part way through the season.

There is no doubt in my mind we were behind the times and rugby camps experience were rarely offered to the younger brigade where much learning could take place getting them ready for the comp in later years.

This has had a double effect - less experience (only one or two years in the opens) and strengthened Joeys' ability to win 16As comps.

Joeys general depth also means that they rarely have the need to push their good 16As into opens, whereas other schools may need to do so out of necessity.

 

[The Honey Badger]

Only just over half the school are now boarders - which is a big factor. Up until 1996 SJC was 100% boarders and boarding has gradually declined in the 20 years since. I suspect that there is at least some correlation there.

Gee, they fronted with 3 Aus Schoolboys last year, don't think standards have dropped too much.

Sent from my F3115 using Tapatalk

 

[Quick Hands]

Gee, they fronted with 3 Aus Schoolboys last year, don't think standards have dropped too much.

Sent from my F3115 using Tapatalk

There's 15 players on the field.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Joeys general depth also means that they rarely have the need to push their good 16As into opens, whereas other schools may need to do so out of necessity.

they have at least in trials this year - what do you make of that?

 

[Quick Hands]

they have at least in trials this year - what do you make of that?

Not sure what to make of it. It's not their usual way of doing things - maybe because there were so many trials this year they wanted to see how they went and rest 1st XV players.

 

[DragonMan]

What are the ingredients for a 'strong Rugby school'. It can't be scholarships, demographics and boarders, look at Waverley it is a day school only, apparently doesn't offer scholarships and a good amount of the kids there are Greeks or Italians (from what I heard) who are more prone to playing soccer.

 

[Quick Hands]

What are the ingredients for a 'strong Rugby school'. It can't be scholarships, demographics and boarders, look at Waverley it is a day school only, apparently doesn't offer scholarships and a good amount of the kids there are Greeks or Italians (from what I heard) who are more prone to playing soccer.

I think it involves a few things and good coaching from 13s on is one of them, another would be that you need some toughness in the kids and I also think that the school needs to be proactive in at least trying to make the game accessible for kids from non-traditional rugby backgrounds. The programme also needs to be well organised and structured.

I think that the number of boarders plays a part somewhere, as I'm sure does the dreaded "s" word.

 

[The Honey Badger]

There's 15 players on the field.

And last year they had the best schoolboy Goal kicker I have ever seen. And a pretty handy No 8 who is going very well for Uni Colts this year, Didn"t mind the Lock Spooner either.

The rest might have been crap

 

[BRUMBIEJACK]

What are the ingredients for a 'strong Rugby school'. It can't be scholarships, demographics and boarders, look at Waverley it is a day school only, apparently doesn't offer scholarships and a good amount of the kids there are Greeks or Italians (from what I heard) who are more prone to playing soccer.

Good question. Waverley has a strong rugby tradition which helps. As a Christian Brothers school it also has a certain ethos so its fees are about 1/3 - 1/2 the other schools against whom it competes. That breeds a certain fibro v silvertail mentality that both helps & hinders. I'm sure not many schools look forward to playing at QP1 b/c it's rough 'n ready and not on the school grounds.
But it is also the fact that union and league are both strong in the catchment areas so many boys come who already know how to play. So while the school lacks the facilities available to nearly every other school, they do well with what they have. Last year's firsts were very good for example but this year's is great. Next year's will probably be good. Without scholarships you get what you get and develop them along the way. I think this year's success may hopefully inspire some younger boys in the future which can only be a good thing. In a shrinking rugby market Waverley is at least holding its own - but it really comes down to some very dedicated teachers b/c the rugby system doesn't do anything to foster it - a common refrain I know.