NRC Rnd 1: Melbourne Rising v Canberra Vikings

[Rugbynutter39]

Hard going for the Rising as they have taken the approach to give more of their top club players a go which in many ways hard to fault compared to Vikings who seem to have given very little opportunities to their top club players. Which is why Vikings would have to be favourites to win the NRC this year. But would have preferred to see Vikings give a few more top club players in their local comp a go.

 

[Shaker]

Jesus, its like the Rising have traffic cones on the right side of their defensive line.

 

[Brumby Runner]

RN39, McInerney, Dobson, L Lonergan, R Lonergan, Hansen, Allen, Robinson all locals and many others like Swain, Valetini, Muirhead, Lolesio, Frost, Smith and Keunzle have either honed their skills at the Brumbies or are just starting out on their journeys. Other than that, no-names like Kaihea, Simeon, Abra, who very few people have even heard of. Really, what more do you want?

 

[Rebels3]

Watching from home the camera work is pretty average. Really disappointed to see the team selected not sure why we left so many Rebels players out. We should take this comp more seriously and select our best available side

Most of the guys were at the game as well. I’m a big believer of setting a culture of winning.

I saw Cottrell, Erasmus, Leota, Hosea and Hardwick at the field. Hosea, Leota and Hardwick in particular are at stages in their career where they should be getting as much experience under their belt as possible.

1 Sa’aga
2 Rangi
3 Ainsley
4 RHP
5 Hosea
6 Jones
7 Hardwick
8 Leota
9 (opportunity for local)
10 (opportunity for local)
11 (opportunity for local)
12 Meakes
13 Magnay
14 Tupou
15 Maddocks

A team like this should be rolled out, plus with the Wallabies players unavailable there is plenty of opportunities for new talent. Injuries will provide opportunities as well. It’s all a little strange when compared to how the Brumbies are approaching this as a genuine opportunity for players within their squad.

 

[LearningCurve]

Most of the guys were at the game as well. I’m a big believer of setting a culture of winning.

I saw Cottrell, Erasmus, Leota, Hosea and Hardwick at the field. Hosea, Leota and Hardwick in particular are at stages in their career where they should be getting as much experience under their belt as possible.

1 Sa’aga
2 Rangi
3 Ainsley
4 RHP
5 Hosea
6 Jones
7 Hardwick
8 Leota
9 (opportunity for local)
10 (opportunity for local)
11 (opportunity for local)
12 Meakes
13 Magnay
14 Tupou
15 Maddocks

A team like this should be rolled out, plus with the Wallabies players unavailable there is plenty of opportunities for new talent. Injuries will provide opportunities as well. It’s all a little strange when compared to how the Brumbies are approaching this as a genuine opportunity for players within their squad.

Don't you have Andrew Kellaway signed now as well or is he in NZ? I like to see the best available players playing so am glad that the Vikings used their Super Rugby players - looked at the lineup and thought that would be hard to beat.

 

[Rebels3]

Don't you have Andrew Kellaway signed now as well or is he in NZ? I like to see the best available players playing so am glad that the Vikings used their Super Rugby players - looked at the lineup and thought that would be hard to beat.

Yeh he’s playing mitre 10. I’m happy with that as well, it’s extra money for players and still playing at a very high level. Everyone of the guys missing from the squad has played less than 14 games this year, a number of them had some of their appearances off the bench, so it can’t be a player burnout/welfare issue.

I just don’t get what they are doing. If they are going down a certain pathway, then some communication as to why would be nice and solve a lot of questions the fans have about it.

 

[Slim 293]

Hard going for the Rising as they have taken the approach to give more of their top club players a go which in many ways hard to fault compared to Vikings who seem to have given very little opportunities to their top club players. Which is why Vikings would have to be favourites to win the NRC this year. But would have preferred to see Vikings give a few more top club players in their local comp a go.

As BR pointed out, the Vikings are full of local players and others who have come from elsewhere and have been playing in John I Dent Cup in recent years.........

But in the end all of the teams should be fielding their best available players, and the Rising made the choice not to do so today.

 

[Slim 293]

Anyways, how good was Fred Kaihea? One to keep an eye on this year.........

I don't really follow junior rugby, so had to get some background......... from my old neck of the woods and was part of that ACT Schoolboys side that won the national comp a couple of years ago.

The Vikings scrum did very well considering the Rising front rowers playing.

 

[Rebels3]

In fairness just about every player the Vikings put out is a contracted professional to the Brumbies. The Rising had 9 players in the starting side alone that are purely amateur. It’s not an excuse, because I believe the Vikings are doing it the right way. It’s more frustration with the contrasting ways the clubs are approaching the competition. As far as I am concerned you should be always in it to win it and the Rebels clearly have shown they aren’t. The players obviously take it serious but I’m not sure the club is because they’d select a better side with the resources available if they were.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

In fairness just about every player the Vikings put out is a contracted professional to the Brumbies. The Rising had 9 players in the starting side alone that are purely amateur. It’s not an excuse, because I believe the Vikings are doing it the right way. It’s more frustration with the contrasting ways the clubs are approaching the competition. As far as I am concerned you should be always in it to win it and the Rebels clearly have shown they aren’t. The players obviously take it serious but I’m not sure the club is because they’d select a better side with the resources available if they were.

Thanks Rebel3 that was my point...Vikings put out a fully contracted Brumbies backline and indeed it was the backs where the difference was. Point being made was about balance of non Super Rugby contracted club players from local ACT competition - nothing else.

 

[Brumbieman]

Replays anywhere?

 

[mst]

Thanks Rebel3 that was my point.Vikings put out a fully contracted Brumbies backline and indeed it was the backs where the difference was. Point being made was about balance of non Super Rugby contracted club players from local ACT competition - nothing else.

I get your point on balance but I think times are changing and it's not a relevant marker in some respects. Can I ask if the Brumbies contacted scrummie Lachlan Albert played would he fall in to your example? I think also it it raises the question about what the NRC is for?

What the Brumbies and Reds are using it for is what I believe it needs to be used for. The contracted (professional) / amateur balance argument is relevant for the Shute / GPR / JiD but it needs to be in context nowadays. A contract does not mean they will ever be of Super Rugby standard. Again, I refer to my above example. Pulu, Simone and Albert all fall within your Super Rugby contracted club players terminology. We don't even know if Albert could perform at JiD level yet.

Union is well known and often and openly criticised by us for not being able to compete with League and other sports when it comes to emerging talent retention. The Brumbies have made the decision to invest in emerging young talent and ensure they can get return on that investment. To do so you need ink on paper.

Go back 12 or 24 months and the backs you refer to were ripe to be picked by other rugby clubs or sports as they were uncommitted to any professional club. Many have come from within or via the JiD. The possible reason for that is young players are seeing that the JiD is the gateway to potential Brumbies development opportunities and even greater things. Build it and they will come. Look at Simeon and Abra as perfect examples of players looking for that opportunity.

My point is that both the Brumbies and Reds appear to be the only organisations who are seriously investing in a coherent and structured manner in future talent thus you end up with a logical situation of having a fair amount of the "contracted players" in the local competition and at your disposal for the NRC. They are using the NRC for what its for and IMHO what it needs to be for the future development of Rugby in Australia. If we want to test our emerging talent at a high level then we need the NRC.

 

[mst]

Replays anywhere?

https://www.rugby.com.au/videos

 

[Adam84]

there are replays on rugby.com and kayo

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I get your point on balance but I think times are changing and it's not a relevant marker in some respects. Can I ask if the Brumbies contacted scrummie Lachlan Albert played would he fall in to your example? I think also it it raises the question about what the NRC is for?

What the Brumbies and Reds are using it for is what I believe it needs to be used for. The contracted (professional) / amateur balance argument is relevant for the Shute / GPR / JiD but it needs to be in context nowadays. A contract does not mean they will ever be of Super Rugby standard. Again, I refer to my above example. Pulu, Simone and Albert all fall within your Super Rugby contracted club players terminology. We don't even know if Albert could perform at JiD level yet.

Union is well known and often and openly criticised by us for not being able to compete with League and other sports when it comes to emerging talent retention. The Brumbies have made the decision to invest in emerging young talent and ensure they can get return on that investment. To do so you need ink on paper.

Go back 12 or 24 months and the backs you refer to were ripe to be picked by other rugby clubs or sports as they were uncommitted to any professional club. Many have come from within or via the JiD. The possible reason for that is young players are seeing that the JiD is the gateway to potential Brumbies development opportunities and even greater things. Build it and they will come. Look at Simeon and Abra as perfect examples of players looking for that opportunity.

My point is that both the Brumbies and Reds appear to be the only organisations who are seriously investing in a coherent and structured manner in future talent thus you end up with a logical situation of having a fair amount of the "contracted players" in the local competition and at your disposal for the NRC. They are using the NRC for what its for and IMHO what it needs to be for the future development of Rugby in Australia. If we want to test our emerging talent at a high level then we need the NRC.

Good debate - reflecting on brumbies contracted backline put out - fair to say all players need game time for different reasons so less bothered on reflection about the fact no starting club players. I think we all agree is about finding right balance. My comments were as much I enjoy seeing a sprinkling of top club talent to see if they can make the next level and in fairness not to say not got it right with side out by the Vikings in referring to comments above and indeed not knowing who would be top local club players in ACT comp.

You also won’t get any arguments that we critically need a 3rd tier comp like the nrc and indeed on yesterday’s games hopefully showing better commitment by all to it (read nswru / waratahs)

 

[Rebel man]

Most of the guys were at the game as well. I’m a big believer of setting a culture of winning.

I saw Cottrell, Erasmus, Leota, Hosea and Hardwick at the field. Hosea, Leota and Hardwick in particular are at stages in their career where they should be getting as much experience under their belt as possible.

1 Sa’aga
2 Rangi
3 Ainsley
4 RHP
5 Hosea
6 Jones
7 Hardwick
8 Leota
9 (opportunity for local)
10 (opportunity for local)
11 (opportunity for local)
12 Meakes
13 Magnay
14 Tupou
15 Maddocks

A team like this should be rolled out, plus with the Wallabies players unavailable there is plenty of opportunities for new talent. Injuries will provide opportunities as well. It’s all a little strange when compared to how the Brumbies are approaching this as a genuine opportunity for players within their squad.

Goddard should have played 9.

Also Trevor Hosea injured his knee three weeks ago playing for Quinn’s so I dare say he isn’t fit.

I do agree with you though. Putting out a weak side while it may help develop players and improve the standard of the Dewar Shield it isn’t in the best interest of the Rebels or in the best interest of the NRC or rugby in Victoria. If we put out a full strength side we would be competitive with the best sides having success even at NRC level will be good for the momentum of rugby in Victoria

 

[Rebels3]

Goddard should have played 9.

Also Trevor Hosea injured his knee three weeks ago playing for Quinn’s so I dare say he isn’t fit.

I do agree with you though. Putting out a weak side while it may help develop players and improve the standard of the Dewar Shield it isn’t in the best interest of the Rebels or in the best interest of the NRC or rugby in Victoria. If we put out a full strength side we would be competitive with the best sides having success even at NRC level will be good for the momentum of rugby in Victoria

Forgot about Goddard.

Agreed completely with everything you said, what the last couple of seasons has shown is there is so many guys in the squad with potential but have game management and skill holes in their game, they need to be playing these matches. Also for a club that stated in the fans forum the other day players are still learning to play with each other, you’d think this would be primary ground to assist in this growth they are looking at.

 

[Rebel man]

Forgot about Goddard.

Agreed completely with everything you said, what the last couple of seasons has shown is there is so many guys in the squad with potential but have game management and skill holes in their game, they need to be playing these matches. Also for a club that stated in the fans forum the other day players are still learning to play with each other, you’d think this would be primary ground to assist in this growth they are looking at.

Couldn’t agree with you more

 

[Highlander35]

Not gonna post more than I have to here.

The game was always a foregone conclusion, and while I'm pleased for the Box Hill boys involved, it should be the Pros out there building combos and getting match experience.

The VRU are clearly intelligent people who're good at politics, contracts, business and all that nonsense. The lack of advertising, integration, communication etc shown across the 3 events on Saturday reinforces that they're not actually good at integrating the pro community with the local community. Rugbyfest ran a larger and as successful solo event both previous years, and the Old Schoolboys basically had no crossover with the other two events: and the fact that they specifically had a sponsor and the other events didn't highlights it further.

 

[Rebels3]

What I liked a couple of years ago was the Victorian Axemen match vs the Rising. I think that’d be a better way to go with rewarding players on the fringe and uniting the sectors. Standouts within that match could then be asked to integrate within the squad on a training basis.