NRC 2017 Round 4: Fiji Drua vs Perth Spirit - Saturday @3pm AEST

[Shiggins]

I don't know Fiji are a good side but seriously with the side Perth Spirit put out on paper they could do better than the rubbish they served up in that first half. Just an indictment on Australian rugby where it is at.

They didn't have a chance. Never got any quick ball because Fiji were laying on it, not releasing, in the side, taking out ruru off the ball which is always a penalty. Plus is th B spirit team as well

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[Shiggins]

I can't beleive the comments tbh. I could make a 30 minute highlight package of all the penalties that should of been awarded. You can't play rugby when the other team breaks all the laws to slow your ball down

I will say this. Fiji are very physical and fit.

They won't do as well in Aus going forward because refs will start penalizing them off the field.

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[Braveheart81]

Classic Shiggins!

 

[Shiggins]

Mate. In watching it now. Isi gets tackled and one of the Fiji tacklers is trying to rip it. Isi is now on the ground and he still keeps trying to rip it and runs off with it. No penalty. The all blacks would or lost that game.

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[Braveheart81]

I watched more than half the game. The Spirit got belted.

I don't think the refereeing made more than a few points difference.

 

[Shiggins]

You can't score trys when it takes you 5 seconds to clear 3 Fiji bodies off your ball every ruck

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[Brumby Runner]

I am with BH on this game. The refereeing made little difference. But I do have some sympathy for Shiggins' usual referee complaints as well. The standard of officiating in the NRC has been very poor imo. Luckily the players have approached the games with good intentions to just attack at all costs. There have been many good games to watch despite the level of refereeing on show.

 

[TOCC]

the only good player in the aussie super rugby franchise who was not eligible for them is Amanaki Mafi, was there another? cause i definitely did not see them. Isi will be eligible for them next year and he has maintained that he will play for Australia, not Fiji. I hate it when ppl point out stuff like that without backing it up. Jock Hobbs (former NZRU Chairman) used the same excuse to get rid of Fijians from super rugby and NPC (Mitre10) when the problem, just like it is with Australia rugby is that its usually the football body or the coaches who refuse to pick the right players and then blame the islanders for taking the spots in super rugby which should be given to players eligible for them
.

Off the top of my head, this was the list from 2017... the biggest issue been 3 Wallaby inelegible flyhalves, all of whom were the starting or reserve 5/8 for the bulk of the season. That shouldn't be allowed to happen.

Backrow: Hendrik Tui(Reds), Amanaki Mafi(Rebels)

Halfback: Cubelli(Brumbies)

Flyhalf: Wharenui Hawera(Brumbies), Peter Grant(Force), Jackson Garden-Bachop(Rebels)

 

[TOCC]

Spirit got belted mate


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[Jagman]

Off the top of my head, this was the list from 2017. the biggest issue been 3 Wallaby inelegible flyhalves, all of whom were the starting or reserve 5/8 for the bulk of the season. That shouldn't be allowed to happen.

Backrow: Hendrik Tui(Reds), Amanaki Mafi(Rebels)

Halfback: Cubelli(Brumbies)

Flyhalf: Wharenui Hawera(Brumbies), Peter Grant(Force), Jackson Garden-Bachop(Rebels)

Volavola makes 4 flyhalves

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[TSR]

the only good player in the aussie super rugby franchise who was not eligible for them is Amanaki Mafi, was there another? cause i definitely did not see them. Isi will be eligible for them next year and he has maintained that he will play for Australia, not Fiji. I hate it when ppl point out stuff like that without backing it up.

Warpath - a list has been provided above, so I won't repeat it - but the use of
non-eligible players at 10 & in the backrow has been commented on this site pretty regularly. I thought it was pretty well acknowledged the problems it had caused - particularly at 10. Previously we had Alby Mathewson & Tomas Cubelli both filling starting spots at 9.

Whether or not there was sufficient Australian talent to fill those spots is another aspect. As is the benefits of having some of these Test players involved in mentoring the young guys coming through. Even in the reduced comp, I still think there is generally benefit in having 1 genuine front line marquee player. But I think that needs to be centrally managed in a way that, across the 4 super teams the all play different positions. And, personally I would love if all 4 of those players were from the Pacific Islands.

I really do hope that World Rugby increase their assistance to help 'give back' to the Pacific Islands and support the future growth of the game there. Australia's assistance at a super level just has to be managed carefully.

 

[TSR]

Shiggins - you really can't bring yourself to give any credit to the Fiji side other than 'they are physical and fit'????

Sorry mate - but if they played to the refs interpretation and got away with it, that's rugby. But they were by far the better team and the influence of the ref was nominal on the result. Basically they belted the stuffing out of the Spirit and, when they had the ball, scored some great tries.

 

[TOCC]

The influx of foreign backrowers in the past 5 years is part of the reason that we lack depth in that position currently IMO..

Potgeiter, Delve, Thomson, Tui, Amanaki and one or two others whose names I've forgotten at the Force have all held prominent blindside or No.8 positions in their respective teams, and it has blocked opportunities for other guys who may have developed into credible Wallaby backrow options today..

I like the foreign marquee player, but it needs to be regulated by the ARU... we can't have 3 foreigners playin in crucial roles like THP or fly-half..

Bring Fijians in and allow them to fill roles, but just ensure it spread across the positions.. like 1 wing, 1 fly-half, 1 backrower ect



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[Warpath]

I SAID "GOOD PLAYER", I WAS AWARE OF OTHER NON-AUSTRALIA QUALIFIED PLAYERS IN THE COMPETITION but none of them were good, Bachop was the worst 10 to play for an aussie super rugby team lol, Hawera was average, made us wish To'omua was back, Volavola barely played at 10, usually off the bench (i nicknamed him Bench Volavola) and Cubelli was great last season but barely used this season cause they wanted to use Joe Powell more, you can't blame Cubelli who was the better halfback for the brumbies not making the semis this year cause he was not used, maybe had they played the better halfback instead of the wallaby backup, they may have made the final, who knows..thus why sometimes its better to play an "import" in certain positions. Ruru has been a great import for the Force, better than Alby honestly. Super rugby is about reaching the final, infact that is what club rugby is all about, either it be super rugby or top14, rich people/companies invest in those teams and they want the best outcome, they don't care about how they do it, even if it means bringing in a lot of foreigners. I know french rugby is not doing well nowadays (internationally) but their club competition has been pretty great and Pacific Islanders, mainly Fijians do play a large part in it success. Now you can't say that too many foreigners have diluted their ability to pick for the French national team, infatc, there are more french ppl (over 85%) playing for top14 and ProD2 sides than foreigners, the problem lies with the FFR and the coaches for not selecting the right players, you can't keep blaming foreigners, seems like rugby has its own version of Xenophobia :/

 

[Braveheart81]

Cubelli was great last season but barely used this season cause they wanted to use Joe Powell more, you can't blame Cubelli who was the better halfback for the brumbies not making the semis this year cause he was not used, maybe had they played the better halfback instead of the wallaby backup

He got injured in the preseason and only returned right at the end of the Super Rugby season.

 

[Brumby Runner]

He got injured in the preseason and only returned right at the end of the Super Rugby season.

That's true but doesn't necessarily detract from the main points being made by Warpath.

 

[TSR]

Warpath - I am not sure if I have missed your point, or you've missed mine.

I made an earlier post about the introduction of the Fijian import rule where I specifically stated that it was good for Fijian rugby, World rugby and the super rugby teams, but not necessarily Australian rugby. You responded by saying you hate when people make statements like this without backing it up. My subsequent comment attempted to back up my original post.

Now I concede in my original post I should have said 'not good for the Wallabies' rather than 'not good for Australian rugby' but other than that I thought my rational was straight forward enough. The reference to 'good players' was in your response and never in my original post, so I didn't respond to that bit as it wasn't relevant to my position.

If you disagree with my opinion, that is fine. But you seem to be suggesting I'm (and others?) xenophobic because I want some sort of control to
ensure we don't have a repeat of the current situation where 3 different franchises are using imports in the same spot and so at Wallabies level we have insufficient back ups to the incumbent.

I'm all for supporting the growth of Fijian rugby, so long as we don't end up with 2 different teams playing imports from any country playing in the same position. If, however, we have a test level Fijian frontrower, lock, half and outside back spread across the 4 franchises than that is great as far as I am concerned.

 

[TOCC]

I SAID "GOOD PLAYER", I WAS AWARE OF OTHER NON-AUSTRALIA QUALIFIED PLAYERS IN THE COMPETITION but none of them were good, Bachop was the worst 10 to play for an aussie super rugby team lol, Hawera was average, made us wish To'omua was back, Volavola barely played at 10, usually off the bench (i nicknamed him Bench Volavola) and Cubelli was great last season but barely used this season cause they wanted to use Joe Powell more, you can't blame Cubelli who was the better halfback for the brumbies not making the semis this year cause he was not used, maybe had they played the better halfback instead of the wallaby backup, they may have made the final, who knows..thus why sometimes its better to play an "import" in certain positions. Ruru has been a great import for the Force, better than Alby honestly. Super rugby is about reaching the final, infact that is what club rugby is all about, either it be super rugby or top14, rich people/companies invest in those teams and they want the best outcome, they don't care about how they do it, even if it means bringing in a lot of foreigners. I know french rugby is not doing well nowadays (internationally) but their club competition has been pretty great and Pacific Islanders, mainly Fijians do play a large part in it success. Now you can't say that too many foreigners have diluted their ability to pick for the French national team, infatc, there are more french ppl (over 85%) playing for top14 and ProD2 sides than foreigners, the problem lies with the FFR and the coaches for not selecting the right players, you can't keep blaming foreigners, seems like rugby has its own version of Xenophobia :/

Doesn't matter if they are what you determine to be good or not... Wallabies only select from Super Rugby, and if there are foreign flyhalves starting in Aussie teams three then it limits selection options to just 2 players.

There's nothing wrong with 1 Fijian per team, it just needs to be managed by the ARU to ensure that the positions they play is spread around.

 

[Warpath]

and as i pointed out TSR, those 30 players are "choosing" not to look for another team in the Australian franchises as they are waiting on Twiggy's new idea to take shape, you can' t blame the 4 Australian super rugby teams getting players from NRC or even from overseas instead of recruiting from the "30 odd non-contracted players " if those players are making themselves unavailable for now, there is nothing they can do but the clubs need to sign players now as their is an open window for recruitment. South Africa super rugby teams have no influences from "foreigners" but they have been doing poorly as well, so its not the foreigners who are the issue, for Australia, its the ARU and to a degree, the coaching staff of the wallabies, also personally, i think the 4 coaches of the Australian super rugby teams are poor as well.

regarding "good players", there are atleast 12 (or maybe more) non-australia qualified players playing in the 5 Australian super rugby teams this year and personally, Mafi was the only impressive one, yes its a shame that the best 8 in the aussie franchises cannot play for australia as he is capped for another country, its a shame indeed but just because australia does not have a good number 8 right now, doesn't mean we blame all foreigners playing in the aussie franchises cause they took the place of someone locally grown, that will be silly, I bet Rebels fans are so happy that they have Mafi and he has won done many good things for the rebels this year, even if the team did not win many games..again, just because the Wobblies do not currently have a good number 8 doesn't mean its mafi or all non-australia qualified players fault, infact apart from Isi, there is one another good 8 out there in Richard Hardwick, now if Chieka refuses to give him game time, thats the fault of him and his coaching staff, not anybody elses's

Clubs in Top14/Pro14/Aviva Premiership competition will be nothing without their non-qualifed players. How many Pro12 or ERC/heineken cup games do you think Leinster would have won without Isa Nacewa (fiji qualified)? The top 4 of the 5 try scorers in Top14 this year are not france qualifed players [3 are fijians].South africa qualified player are doing better playing for english, french and irish clubs than for their own teams in super rugby

Why Australia has like 5 fijian wingers [Sefa, henry, eto, Taqele, Marika] in the last 2 years or so is something you should be asking ARU, personally of that 5, Fiji would probably only take Sefa Naivalu if we could as he is the only kind of winger we need, the rest is pocket change, we have many like them already. Samoa and Tonga are the 2 pacific island teams that complain when NZ (or sometimes australia) take a player qualified for their country , Fiji doesn't, infact even when we lost 2 players that could have been very very useful for us in Tevita Kuridrani and Nathan Hughes, we didn't mind cause this allowed us to look deeper to find a replacement and we did, Peceli Yato (Clermont) is a far better number than 8 Nathan Hughes and at 13, we have 4 options now with Goneva, Nayacalevu, Vatubua and Vasiteri

Fijian players face a lot of racism and xenophobia in france but they have no option but to stay there cause clubs in NZ and Australia refuse to pick "foreigners" even though these country pillage our islands for talents all the time.Former NZRU CEO Hobbs decided to get rid of all non-nz qualified players from NPC (mitre10) back in 2008-10 and this hurt fiji the most because then most of our players were in france and french clubs are fluffybunnys who refuse to release them for international duties and our national team suffered, we all know what happened to fiji during the 2011RWC thus why Fiji has been trying since then to get as many players possible in super rugby teams or the english premiership clubs as it was the only way to ensure their availability during teh June and Novemeber tests, unfortunately, 80% of our team is based in france, we only use 2 or 3 local players cause honestly, they are not good enough for national duties and about 15% of our players are pulled in from australia, france, nz and England. Even though Fiji won 4 of the 5 tests this year (their one loss was to australia oddly), we fielded a really weak team with majority of our star players from france pulling out due to their club directive. Australia should be happy they have so many talents which are readily available when the time comes, we are not. so if we can get 3 or even 4 more players into super rugby, it will be a huge win for us. French clubs come in early and take our youngsters away to france and at this rate, we won't even have good national team after 2019RWC. Our u20 is so shit that we felt to 2nd division in 2014 and finished 6th in that division this year, we really need to get a few players into super rugby as its the only way for our team to survive in the next 5 years.

 

[Derpus]

Warpath - a list has been provided above, so I won't repeat it - but the use of
non-eligible players at 10 & in the backrow has been commented on this site pretty regularly. I thought it was pretty well acknowledged the problems it had caused - particularly at 10. Previously we had Alby Mathewson & Tomas Cubelli both filling starting spots at 9.

Whether or not there was sufficient Australian talent to fill those spots is another aspect. As is the benefits of having some of these Test players involved in mentoring the young guys coming through. Even in the reduced comp, I still think there is generally benefit in having 1 genuine front line marquee player. But I think that needs to be centrally managed in a way that, across the 4 super teams the all play different positions. And, personally I would love if all 4 of those players were from the Pacific Islands.

I really do hope that World Rugby increase their assistance to help 'give back' to the Pacific Islands and support the future growth of the game there. Australia's assistance at a super level just has to be managed carefully.

This does sound a lot like the 'foreigners stealing our jerbs' bleating. If the Number 8 or 10 was there, good enough and ready to play then they would not have recruited outside the country. I can't see any reason to go elsewhere other than the inability to source talent locally.

I think foreign talent is much more likely to be a symptom rather than a cause. Though it might lead to more damaging cyclical behaviour in the long run.