Dan54
David Wilson (68)
mind games ? I hope so, if you doing that to try and get advantage it all good!
Northern Tours 2021 - NZ, SA, etc
- Thread starter waiopehu oldboy
- Start date
mind games ? I hope so, if you doing that to try and get advantage it all good!
waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
^ as you probably know the whole "home team changes strip" thing dates back to amateurism, long tours & hauling around multiple sets of bulky, expensive kit. These days it's not an issue, except maybe for the really cash-strapped minnows, so it's kinda cool to see AB in white every now & then. But don't get me started on e.g. Ringinland in cerise v a team that traditionally plays in red, or Ireland in some kinda purple, Wales in black, etc, etc.
Jeffrey
Chris McKivat (8)
What a first half between SA and England. A real clash of the titans. So much physicality.
England looks worryingly classy, to be honest. They have a lot of young fellas on the pitch who are doing well - their worst is probably Ben Youngs. Malins and Stewart look class, while Marcus Smith showed enough promise for the long term.
But you can see how well England is organised and coached. It's everything from how they always label their subs Finishers, who always gather as the team comes on and off. They have a clear attacking pattern - with Tuilagi featuring prominently both as a decoy and a crash ball runner. Very deceptive attack.
South Africa look like a team fired up, but at the end of a long year. I just love how they can always fall back on their physicality - Duane in particular is such an immense presence in every aspect - long kicks, lineout, rucks, defensive line and defense organisation, and hard yards carrying. What a fantastic player Duane has been. Love the hits that Ox has been putting on, what a massive bloke. The Saffas will improve in the 2nd half, with Malcolm Marx and Mostert to come on.
Reinach is nowhere as good as Faf, while Jesse Kriel should go into bodybuilding - rugby's not really his thing. They have a certain Cheslin Kolbe missing most of this year, as well as the exciting Fassi.
England looks worryingly classy, to be honest. They have a lot of young fellas on the pitch who are doing well - their worst is probably Ben Youngs. Malins and Stewart look class, while Marcus Smith showed enough promise for the long term.
But you can see how well England is organised and coached. It's everything from how they always label their subs Finishers, who always gather as the team comes on and off. They have a clear attacking pattern - with Tuilagi featuring prominently both as a decoy and a crash ball runner. Very deceptive attack.
South Africa look like a team fired up, but at the end of a long year. I just love how they can always fall back on their physicality - Duane in particular is such an immense presence in every aspect - long kicks, lineout, rucks, defensive line and defense organisation, and hard yards carrying. What a fantastic player Duane has been. Love the hits that Ox has been putting on, what a massive bloke. The Saffas will improve in the 2nd half, with Malcolm Marx and Mostert to come on.
Reinach is nowhere as good as Faf, while Jesse Kriel should go into bodybuilding - rugby's not really his thing. They have a certain Cheslin Kolbe missing most of this year, as well as the exciting Fassi.
Jeffrey
Chris McKivat (8)
Even as an AB fan it is not difficult to admit that South Africa, the Springboks, are the best rugby team in the world. A tremendously tough season - 1 whole year not playing together. Some of their blokes got hit quite badly by Covid. With more players spread out around the world, they had to travel more than any country except Argentina. Some of their stars are returning from very long lay-offs. And they had the toughest calendar of any team this season: Lions, Aus/NZ/Arg, Wales and England.
Yes they lost in the last minute to England in England. But they battered England in a way that no other team can. In the mauls. At the scrum. The attrition they can dish out is overwhelming, and somehow did not translate to points with Pollard's misses and Kwagga Smith being held up.
England were missing some of their top players, especially in the front row. But SA were missing their general Faf, and possibly the world's best player in Cheslin Kolbe and a very unique player in RG Snyman.
England has so much young talent a their disposal. They are already very formidable, and Eddie Jones is a top coach with terrific standards. There is a professionalism to England that no other team in the world have, from their nutrition to their S&C to the introduction of variety to their training with all types of different experts. Finally, England has financial resources that no other team has, and the largest playing base with a terrific local league.
2023 is going to be wicked, with the Saffas, the English, the French, the ABs, and possibly also a very young Australia. I hold my belief that the Irish and Wales will not be competitive in a World Cup format.
Yes they lost in the last minute to England in England. But they battered England in a way that no other team can. In the mauls. At the scrum. The attrition they can dish out is overwhelming, and somehow did not translate to points with Pollard's misses and Kwagga Smith being held up.
England were missing some of their top players, especially in the front row. But SA were missing their general Faf, and possibly the world's best player in Cheslin Kolbe and a very unique player in RG Snyman.
England has so much young talent a their disposal. They are already very formidable, and Eddie Jones is a top coach with terrific standards. There is a professionalism to England that no other team in the world have, from their nutrition to their S&C to the introduction of variety to their training with all types of different experts. Finally, England has financial resources that no other team has, and the largest playing base with a terrific local league.
2023 is going to be wicked, with the Saffas, the English, the French, the ABs, and possibly also a very young Australia. I hold my belief that the Irish and Wales will not be competitive in a World Cup format.
zer0
John Thornett (49)
Imagine selecting a second playmaker in Havili then asking him to crash ball all season. Then you decide that's not working so select a guy who can crash ball but use him like twice in a half and otherwise just kick the ball away. That's some real big Hansen energy right there.
France have been good though. Hopefully they keep it up and run up the score.
France have been good though. Hopefully they keep it up and run up the score.
Up the Guts
Steve Williams (59)
Under three minutes to go and 12 points down and Marshall screaming about urgency. The game was lost buddy.
swingpass
Peter Sullivan (51)
Perhaps because to beat them the opposition have to play exceptional rugbyHell another bloody good test, how come the 3 best tests I watched this year the ABs have lost??
French were bloody good, by geez their forwards were real good and Dupont was just out of this world.
Up the Guts
Steve Williams (59)
I don’t think it was that close, felt like the French were always well on top.
Jeffrey
Chris McKivat (8)
The biggest problem with the ABs is the systems that we currently have. The players have at times been poor. But they look poor because the systems are mediocre.
This was quite a crushing loss - 15 point margin is about right. Last week, the scoreline really flattered us.
I hope this brings about a real period of reflection and change. The ABs have been too comfortable for too long. We're basically played the same way since Hansen took over in 2012. What we really needed was not continuity - but change, discomfort, a debate of ideas and trialling of new systems. I'm not sure if Robertson is definitely the answer - but one thing that Robertson dared to do was to get different views, get people to challenge him, the likes of Ronan O'Gara and Mark Jones. Show us a different mentality. Let us learn and incorporate.
The current AB coaching staff seem like every week is the continuation of the same old game plan: quick hands out wide, and then hold the line on defence. There's no tactics catered to the opposition because we don't really study the opposition. There's no variation and no urge to innovate. It's the same tactics every week. Look at the damn lineout calling -there's no learning whatsoever. We still try to call the lineout at the lineout, putting our own hooker under pressure. Compare this to the hyper-professionalism of England. Eddie Jones would have someone pick that up. Joe Schmidt would have someone looking at which direction the tighthead prop faces and which foot he plants forward if he is lifting. The game is changing - it's analysis, statistics, preparation. it's not just about running passing drills and doing the basics well.
In 2009, also another Lions' year, the Boks pummelled us 3 straight. We were poor that year. But we emerged stronger, grew into 2010 and 2011, even if we just sneaked through at RWC 2011. We unearthed Owen Franks at 3. Read finally bulked up to match his tremendous pace and skill at 8. Cory Jane grew into a wing coverted from FB. Kaino improved and improved and grew into the monster he was in 2011. And players like Sam Whitelock and Israel Dagg only debuted in 2010. Who will be our Franks & Read and Jane and Kaino and Whitelock and Dagg in 2023?
If we had somehow sneaked a win, everyone will be on how good the ABs are playing from behind, how we never gave up, how we pushed through. But we needed this loss. With Aaron playing, we literally showed hand and went all in, and still lost. We need to finally see the reflection in the mirror - it's not as pretty as we think. And it won't be pretty until we accept the need to change.
I personally will not want to see Foster remaining in the job, even though I'm sure most will disagree and I'm sure the NZR will not sack their coach with 2 years to go to the WC. But Foster still has never shown to be a world-beating coach. He has neither the details nor the big strategy, neither the creativity nor the gumption. But If he stays, I hope we can see new faces. The worst thing we can do is to stay in this environment of comfort and familiarity. Another season of running over the Aussie teams in Super Rugby isn't going to cut it. We need to play the North more often, and to face South Africa in South Africa.
There were some positives. When we finally rolled up our sleeves and took it on upfront, we looked good. Samisoni must surely be the number 1 choice for 16 jersey. He is exactly the sort of player we need. None of this offloads and quick hands and fitness shit. I'm a forward. I'm going forward. That's it. Quinn Tupeau had a decent game at 12. How did Ioane get his try? It's because Quinn ran straight first, holding Woki, allowing Ioane to exploit the panicked left wing. It's the little things - last week we would have passed too early or ran sideways. I appreciate that as the second half went, our forwards finally showed some heart - when Ntamarck ran free, it was Sam Whitelock who chased down, of all people Dupont. It was Retallick, covering a disproportionate amount of field, snagging Woki, and then getting up to make a second tackle. Ioane remains a good broken field runner.
But there was also again a lack of leadership. Heads were down. everyone looked shocked. We are used to fairly quiet stadiums. But France and Ireland were at fever pitch. Even when we clawed our way back into the game - we looked ragged outside the pick-and-go. Why? Because we don't have proper systems and structures to lock down our play. We depend on players figuring it out all by themselves. Our playmakers were poor. Mouanga has been poor this entire autumn. In the dying minutes, McKenzie was left to take a bouncing ball when Weber was the one moving forward. The scrum took forever to pack. Bower got folded. Sam Cane looked lost.
Ok. that's it. what a terrific night of rugby, with a painful, painful end. Hopefully, with the humble pie of getting trounced, will flower a bloom of a new and better version of the ABs.
This was quite a crushing loss - 15 point margin is about right. Last week, the scoreline really flattered us.
I hope this brings about a real period of reflection and change. The ABs have been too comfortable for too long. We're basically played the same way since Hansen took over in 2012. What we really needed was not continuity - but change, discomfort, a debate of ideas and trialling of new systems. I'm not sure if Robertson is definitely the answer - but one thing that Robertson dared to do was to get different views, get people to challenge him, the likes of Ronan O'Gara and Mark Jones. Show us a different mentality. Let us learn and incorporate.
The current AB coaching staff seem like every week is the continuation of the same old game plan: quick hands out wide, and then hold the line on defence. There's no tactics catered to the opposition because we don't really study the opposition. There's no variation and no urge to innovate. It's the same tactics every week. Look at the damn lineout calling -there's no learning whatsoever. We still try to call the lineout at the lineout, putting our own hooker under pressure. Compare this to the hyper-professionalism of England. Eddie Jones would have someone pick that up. Joe Schmidt would have someone looking at which direction the tighthead prop faces and which foot he plants forward if he is lifting. The game is changing - it's analysis, statistics, preparation. it's not just about running passing drills and doing the basics well.
In 2009, also another Lions' year, the Boks pummelled us 3 straight. We were poor that year. But we emerged stronger, grew into 2010 and 2011, even if we just sneaked through at RWC 2011. We unearthed Owen Franks at 3. Read finally bulked up to match his tremendous pace and skill at 8. Cory Jane grew into a wing coverted from FB. Kaino improved and improved and grew into the monster he was in 2011. And players like Sam Whitelock and Israel Dagg only debuted in 2010. Who will be our Franks & Read and Jane and Kaino and Whitelock and Dagg in 2023?
If we had somehow sneaked a win, everyone will be on how good the ABs are playing from behind, how we never gave up, how we pushed through. But we needed this loss. With Aaron playing, we literally showed hand and went all in, and still lost. We need to finally see the reflection in the mirror - it's not as pretty as we think. And it won't be pretty until we accept the need to change.
I personally will not want to see Foster remaining in the job, even though I'm sure most will disagree and I'm sure the NZR will not sack their coach with 2 years to go to the WC. But Foster still has never shown to be a world-beating coach. He has neither the details nor the big strategy, neither the creativity nor the gumption. But If he stays, I hope we can see new faces. The worst thing we can do is to stay in this environment of comfort and familiarity. Another season of running over the Aussie teams in Super Rugby isn't going to cut it. We need to play the North more often, and to face South Africa in South Africa.
There were some positives. When we finally rolled up our sleeves and took it on upfront, we looked good. Samisoni must surely be the number 1 choice for 16 jersey. He is exactly the sort of player we need. None of this offloads and quick hands and fitness shit. I'm a forward. I'm going forward. That's it. Quinn Tupeau had a decent game at 12. How did Ioane get his try? It's because Quinn ran straight first, holding Woki, allowing Ioane to exploit the panicked left wing. It's the little things - last week we would have passed too early or ran sideways. I appreciate that as the second half went, our forwards finally showed some heart - when Ntamarck ran free, it was Sam Whitelock who chased down, of all people Dupont. It was Retallick, covering a disproportionate amount of field, snagging Woki, and then getting up to make a second tackle. Ioane remains a good broken field runner.
But there was also again a lack of leadership. Heads were down. everyone looked shocked. We are used to fairly quiet stadiums. But France and Ireland were at fever pitch. Even when we clawed our way back into the game - we looked ragged outside the pick-and-go. Why? Because we don't have proper systems and structures to lock down our play. We depend on players figuring it out all by themselves. Our playmakers were poor. Mouanga has been poor this entire autumn. In the dying minutes, McKenzie was left to take a bouncing ball when Weber was the one moving forward. The scrum took forever to pack. Bower got folded. Sam Cane looked lost.
Ok. that's it. what a terrific night of rugby, with a painful, painful end. Hopefully, with the humble pie of getting trounced, will flower a bloom of a new and better version of the ABs.
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waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
AB exit kicking was shite. Smith box kick in minute one didn't find touch, France score in minute three. Bridge misses touch, France score a minute later. JBar has oodles of time to clear to touch inside his 22, decides to run it then kick from 10m outside & France score about four phases later. Very lucky to get the 50/22, I'm pretty sure it hit the line so could easily have been a France lineout back in our half.
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Dctarget
Tim Horan (67)
Haha I really enjoyed that from him, I guess a load of last minute steals for NZ will give you that blind faith.
whew, what a pair of games. England v SA was great fun, Johnny May was diabolical though, almost kept SA in it. England look really, really good. Also lovely to have a card-free game with the refereeing out of it.
Also, that French victory made me forget all about the Wallabies. Jaminet looks so assured. With Dupont, Ntamack, Fickou & Jaminet, France have such a calm and clinical backline. Would love to be in Paris right now. Surprised Woki went so well in the row. That's also France without three of their best players, warning understood.
Up the Guts
Steve Williams (59)
Ntamack was crazy, the French may have a pack to rival the Boks and the backs with the flair and deadliness of vintage All Blacks, scary stuff.
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
Even after time to reflect,I can't help but just think how much I emjoyed the test. France were bloody good, and I not going to cut my wrists because we lost to such a good team. I like a win,and know ABs have plenty to work on (well heaps really), but bugger me I hearing moans we lost 3 tests in a year!!!
SA who I think are going bloody well lost 5 (1 a Lions test so), England lost 3, etc etc, so I actually quite happy that WR (World Rugby) is actually pretty competitive.
SA who I think are going bloody well lost 5 (1 a Lions test so), England lost 3, etc etc, so I actually quite happy that WR (World Rugby) is actually pretty competitive.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Plan on watching the AB's and France now, but I stayed up to watch England and the Bokke last night. That was some test match, but I can't help but feel that the Boks bottled it at the end. They had England on the rack and then gave away a couple of daft penalties right near the end. Steyn's was particularly egregious.
England were all over them in the first half, but that big diesel locomotive of the Bok pack started to gain on them bit by bit. It was brutal and beautiful to watch. England were much more enterprising but the Boks do what they nearly always do and just ratcheted up the physical pressure.
England were all over them in the first half, but that big diesel locomotive of the Bok pack started to gain on them bit by bit. It was brutal and beautiful to watch. England were much more enterprising but the Boks do what they nearly always do and just ratcheted up the physical pressure.