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Northern Hemisphere Rugby Season 14/15

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the plastic paddy

John Solomon (38)
Well the brave new world of the Nigels cup is nearly upon us, replete as it is with 'meritocracy' although not many sponsors and pretty pisspoor tv deals in France and Italy. Obviously no one outside of France really has a hope in hell, going on budgets and playing staff but, Ulster and Munster have both shown a bit of form even if Leinster are complete toilet under Matt O'Connor. So, this weekend my predictions/ hopes as to the winners in the Heineken cup (lite) are Quins, Munster, Glasgow, Clermont(hopefully), Racing Metro, Ulster, Ospreys, Toulouse, Toulon and Leinster.

Very pleasing to see Connacht going so well in the pro 12, the Nigels will not be happy if they wind up having to venture out to Galway in a force 12 next year. Gwan the Westies!!!!!
 

mxyzptlk

Colin Windon (37)
Obviously no one outside of France really has a hope in hell, going on budgets and playing staff but, Ulster and Munster have both shown a bit of form even if Leinster are complete toilet under Matt O'Connor. So, this weekend my predictions/ hopes as to the winners in the Heineken cup (lite) are Quins, Munster, Glasgow, Clermont(hopefully), Racing Metro, Ulster, Ospreys, Toulouse, Toulon and Leinster.


So much depends on which French sides show up. If Quins can limit the handling errors, they may be able to get their offload game going, and that's when they're dangerous. When they don't and they don't, they're not. But Castres are near the bottom of the Top 14 table, so you have to wonder if they're going limit their focus on the league, or if they'll decide to prove they can still play by opening up in the I Can't Believe It's Not the Heineken Cup.

I haven't watched enough Sale this year to know where their strengths are, but I'm sure Munster would be more than happy to punch the ball up with the forwards and only pop it out wide if there's plenty of overlap.

And that's probably what Leicester will want to do to Ulster, but Ulster have enough dangerous players and can play at a fast enough pace that they can make it uncomfortable for Leicester. Cockerill's team will be flying a bit high after whomping Quins, but that's one complete game they've put together, and their confidence will still be brittle -- a couple of surprise plays, especially if Trimble or Bowe pick off some more passes -- could make Leicester shell up. Plus Ulster will be feeling strong after putting 29 on Glasgow.

And Glasgow will hurting after losing to Ulster by 20, and will be out to prove a point. They've shown a few times this year that they can either play like Leinster from a few years ago, or they can lose their heads for a few minutes and let it slip away from them. Bath have been more than competent this season, have a decent pack, and a not-half-bad midfield. Glasgow will have to be sharp if they want to take that fixture. If they can get their game flowing, they can take it, but if it gets sloggy, I'd bet Bath take it by a score.

Many of Clermont's wins have been fairly close, and they've been blown out a couple times this year. Saracens on their own plastic pitch may be more than they're ready for; Clermont may have to way for their home fixture in the sixth round to take one from Saracens.

Racing and Northampton could be close. That could be the armwrestle of the round.

Ospreys already rolled Treviso, and so has everyone else.

If the Toulouse that played Toulon shows up against Montpellier, that could be a cracker of a match. If the Toulouse that has played most of their games this season shows up, I'll enjoy watching Rene Ranger. (I'll enjoy watching Rene Ranger either way.)

As for Toulon and Scarlets, it's probably less a question of who takes it and more a question of the spread.

Until they find some form, Leinster's best hope is to catch a Wasps team in disarray after the furore over their move to Coventry. Wasps' pack has been impressive, especially their back row, and Leinster's is injured. Wasps have won some big games, beat Northampton and Bath and had a couple close losses to Saracens and Quins, but they also lost to Sale. Wasps feel more like a settled team, while Matt O'Connor seems like he's still trying to figure out what his best team set-up is, and the injuries don't help matters. Madigan at 12 and Gopperth at 10? Madigan at 10 and Reid at 12? Who'll be their big ball carriers and breakdown artists? Let's just say it's a chance for players like Rhys Ruddock and Jack McGrath to make their names known to the rest of Europe. But unless Leinster start concentrating and limiting handling errors, coordinating their breakdown work better and clicking as a team, I hate to say it's Wasps' game to lose.

So for me, it's Quins as long as they can keep their hands on the ball; Munster if they play within themselves; Saracens at home; Bath by a try; I'll go RM 92 at home, but it'll be close; Ulster if they can get on top early; Ospreys; Montpellier; Toulon; and Wasps in what'll be a frustrating game to watch.

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Challenge Cup: Gloucester; Newcastle; Bordeaux-Begles; Lyon; Grenoble; Zebre (! -- they're not great, but neither are Oyonnax, and Zebre are niggly at home); Connacht (and just wait till their marquee signings show up, but until then, Connacht are giving the marquee players something to live up to); Exeter; Stade Francais; London Irish.
 

the plastic paddy

John Solomon (38)
So last night Gloucester beat Brive 55-0. That gives us a good indication of how incentivised the French teams are going to be for the challenge cup. The stupidity of the Nigel's decision to not reward the winner of the challenge cup with a place in the following seasons main cup didn't take long to become explicit. To give a further indication of French interest in this stupid competition, Clermont had a ticket allocation of 20% of the gate for their tie with Saracens tomorrow, that is 2000 tickets for a game in London. Their take up? 33. There are more personnel in the squad and coaching staff of Clermont than supporters who want to support this nonsense.

Munster are at Sale who are expecting the biggest crowd they have ever seen at their stadium. Thank God the Irish teams are involved.
 

the plastic paddy

John Solomon (38)
The incompetence of the English tw'ts who are running this tournament knows no bounds. They were told by everyone that the decision not to reward the victors of the challenge cup(second tier competition) with a place in the following seasons main cup would mean that no one would take it seriously. The French teams are not even pretending, leaving all their best players out of their squads of 45 for the tournament. So no sponsors, pitiful TV money relative to the French T14 deal, the supporters having to stump up for two TV subscriptions and nearly half the teams not giving a flying fuck about one of the tournaments, it really is going well. Although I don't suppose we should really be surprised, last season the idiots who run Saracens and are at the forefront of this rubbish pair of tournaments, couldn't manage to organise buses to get their handful of supporters to Cardiff (100 miles away) in time for the end of their Heineken cup final, leave alone the start.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Harlequins beat Castres, the losing finalists in the Heineken Cup last season, 25-9 in the first game of the ER Championship but the French club did better than they have been doing in the Top 14 where they are near the bottom of the table.

The visitors contended well in the first hour of the game and had their lineout, which had been good in the T14, been up to par, they could have surprised Quins.

There wasn't a lot of joy for them in the scrum either.

9 Rory Kockott and 10 Remi Tales, two of the best Castres players, tried to lift them but the Quins' 9 Danny Care and 10 Nick Evans were the better halves paring; the try they concocted between them was sweet rugby.

The man of the match award went to 6 Luke Wallace of Quins but Care and Evans (who kicked seven from seven) must have been considered, as would have 15 Mike Brown, who came back from an below-par performance last week.

13 Chris Tuatara-Morrison, who played for the Western Force in 2013, and in the Shute Shield in Sydney, mainly for Northern Suburbs, started for Castres. He had been called in by Castres as a "medical joker" and though he didn't shine, he held his own.
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mxyzptlk

Colin Windon (37)
Harlequins beat Castres, the losing finalists in the Heineken Cup Top 14 last season, 25-9 in the first game of the ER Championship but the French club did better than they have been doing in the Top 14 where they are near the bottom of the table.

Fixed that for you. Castres haven't been near the Heineken Cup play-offs since 2002.
 

mxyzptlk

Colin Windon (37)
To give a further indication of French interest in this stupid competition, Clermont had a ticket allocation of 20% of the gate for their tie with Saracens tomorrow, that is 2000 tickets for a game in London. Their take up? 33. There are more personnel in the squad and coaching staff of Clermont than supporters who want to support this nonsense.
Where'd you see that? Any idea how likely French fans are to travel in France? I wonder if it's similarly low, depending on how far it is.

Castres and Brive are at the bottom of the Top 14 table -- they're not playing good rugby right now. Harlequins and Gloucester are in the middle of the Premiership table and have been finding some form, especially Gloucester. If Gloucester or Harlequins had played Newcastle or London Welsh or Zebre or NG Dragons, you'd expect similar results.

Does the same criticism get levelled at the Premiership because Glasgow have just scored 37 over Bath and only gave up 10? (The game's not over -- Bath have 10 minutes to show something. Bath didn't show anything more.)

Munster are at Sale who are expecting the biggest crowd they have ever seen at their stadium. Thank God the Irish teams are involved.
Yep. That's the one thing I think the Premiership teams have a problem with. I'm salivating for Leicester-Ulster. Munster already showed what they're up for (drop goals!), and am intrigued what a limping Leinster can offer up.

To be fair, I don't know if anyone really expected any except the largest and most established French sides at the top half of their table to show up -- Clermont, Toulouse, Toulon, Montpellier, Racing Metro (maybe). Clermont isn't rolling over for Saracens on Saracens home pitch. Besides, don't forget that the French sides pulled back from the English brinksmanship and said they couldn't imagine a Euro competition without the Irish sides. So I'm not sure if one game from each division is enough to write off the entire competition. And if they don't bother to show up, and the Irish teams establish supremacy again, the Premiership and Top 14 can suck it. (Is it Ulster's turn to win a few?)
 

Highlander35

Steve Williams (59)
Your PRL masters won't be happy about losing to a Scottish team with BT on their jerseys after they have paid so much money to rename BT Murrayfield.

d8ute.jpg
 

the plastic paddy

John Solomon (38)
Where'd you see that? Any idea how likely French fans are to travel in France? I wonder if it's similarly low, depending on how far it is.

Castres and Brive are at the bottom of the Top 14 table -- they're not playing good rugby right now. Harlequins and Gloucester are in the middle of the Premiership table and have been finding some form, especially Gloucester. If Gloucester or Harlequins had played Newcastle or London Welsh or Zebre or NG Dragons, you'd expect similar results.

Does the same criticism get levelled at the Premiership because Glasgow have just scored 37 over Bath and only gave up 10? (The game's not over -- Bath have 10 minutes to show something. Bath didn't show anything more.)


Yep. That's the one thing I think the Premiership teams have a problem with. I'm salivating for Leicester-Ulster. Munster already showed what they're up for (drop goals!), and am intrigued what a limping Leinster can offer up.

To be fair, I don't know if anyone really expected any except the largest and most established French sides at the top half of their table to show up -- Clermont, Toulouse, Toulon, Montpellier, Racing Metro (maybe). Clermont isn't rolling over for Saracens on Saracens home pitch. Besides, don't forget that the French sides pulled back from the English brinksmanship and said they couldn't imagine a Euro competition without the Irish sides. So I'm not sure if one game from each division is enough to write off the entire competition. And if they don't bother to show up, and the Irish teams establish supremacy again, the Premiership and Top 14 can suck it. (Is it Ulster's turn to win a few?)
Ulster's line out was a complete shambles, Rory Best got a serious case of the yips. Even with that they should have won the game, fecking disappointed they didn't. Payne at 13 is plain stupid, he is the best fullback in Ireland, miles better than Kearney. The way Ulster improved when Cave came on and Payne went to FB was crazy.

Sale, Wasps and Leicester were all flattered by poor Irish performances and the sort of reffing out of the French refs that I suspected we were going to see in this stupid tournament. Anyway, not a great return for the English with 4 losses out of 7 in the main Nigels cup. The Challenge cup is a complete joke as the Newport dragons win away to Stade Francais amply demonstrates.

But according to the English press it is the most super dooper competition ever anywhere. Wankers.
 

mxyzptlk

Colin Windon (37)
Ulster's line out was a complete shambles, Rory Best got a serious case of the yips. Even with that they should have won the game, fecking disappointed they didn't. Payne at 13 is plain stupid, he is the best fullback in Ireland, miles better than Kearney. The way Ulster improved when Cave came on and Payne went to FB was crazy.

Sale, Wasps and Leicester were all flattered by poor Irish performances and the sort of reffing out of the French refs that I suspected we were going to see in this stupid tournament. Anyway, not a great return for the English with 4 losses out of 7 in the main Nigels cup. The Challenge cup is a complete joke as the Newport dragons win away to Stade Francais amply demonstrates.

But according to the English press it is the most super dooper competition ever anywhere. Wankers.
Best does get the yips every now and then. Why is that? Stephen Ferris was talking about the line out issues after the game -- he seemed as frustrated as anyone. I need to watch that one again (I watch live, my wife catches up later), but at moments it almost seemed like they were spooked (Jackson getting a goal kick charged down), and then at moments they realized they could play with Leicester, but then got over-zealous -- taking a man out in the air, twice. Doak's just getting his feet wet as head coach; let's hope it doesn't take too long for everyone to settle in. What's frustrating is that they beat Glasgow so handily, and Glasgow then takes out tied-for-third-on-the-league-table Bath, but Ulster can't show that same form. I thought Leinster was going to be my frustrating game, but I think this one took it. (Consistency seems to be a particularly Irish problem.)

Munster had a great first 15 minutes but left themselves a mountain to climb. But CJ Stander is a little wrecking ball. He looks like he wants to be a smaller POC. When Munster started clicking, the speed and ferocity they played with was fun to watch. The more confidence they can build right now, the better. (And Murray had that try -- one angle clearly showed it down.) Is it my imagination, or did Keatley attack the line more in the second half? My wife's watching it now, and he seems to be attacking the gain line more than he has in the PRO12. Plus, the confidence he must have gained from how they finished that off. They shouldn't have been in that position at the end of the game, but at least they finished it off. Neither Sale nor Munster are in excellent form, but it was a fun, exciting game.

I've only seen Sale play a couple of times this season, but after this first weekend, it seemed like they and most every team in the Championship upped the intensity. Even the Scarlets showed they're up for it, and five of the six French teams showed up to play.

Leinster... I'm just waiting to see what they'll look like once they gave half of their injured players back. They looked undercooked as a team, and I did not like seeing Madigan getting skinned by Wade, or playing at fullback in general -- he kept moving up into 12 territory, leaving open space behind. Right now, the more Ruddock, Cronin and Heaslip carry the ball the better, especially Ruddock. Noel Reid has Gilroy feet, but needs more game time to make them more effective.

As for the Challenge Cup, the Amlin was also never any great shakes for competition, either. It's always been more or less a way for teams to get a run out and get some players some game time they normally wouldn't get -- it's a European-wide LV Cup. Personally, I hope Connacht doesn't focus too much on it; they don't have the depth to risk their top players on it, and it would be a good chance to help get the younger players experience. At least Italy and Romania have some teams in that tournament. Not they they'll be expected to do much, but getting the competition in has to help. There's no parachuting down from the Champions Cup into the Challenge Cup, is there?
 

the plastic paddy

John Solomon (38)

Bairdy

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Could anyone be so kind as to reccommend which Champions Cup match replays I should bother to watch?
 

Highlander35

Steve Williams (59)
Sale game was worth a watch, good match in itself, Cipriani and Cusiter make a great pair.

Glasgow game from the Highlights looked fab, recording it tonight.

Haven't caught the rest, but they're recorded.
 

Bairdy

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Sale game was worth a watch, good match in itself, Cipriani and Cusiter make a great pair.

Glasgow game from the Highlights looked fab, recording it tonight.

Haven't caught the rest, but they're recorded.
Thanks for the reccomendations.
In previous years I would have found time to watch the Heineken Cup matches, even the ones involving French teams playing away. But reading the pessimism in the thread has dampened my interest, it has to be said.
 

BabyBlueElephant

Darby Loudon (17)
Could anyone be so kind as to reccommend which Champions Cup match replays I should bother to watch?


Biggest tie of the weekend was Saracens Clermont. Was a tit for tat game and fairly high scoring. For sheer edge of the seat stuff probably Munster Sale.


Anyway I thought Clermont were very impressive against Sarries. I expected them to drop a fair bit in Europe after losing Cotter and a fair few star players. They don't look as physically imposing and do seem to be more willing to pass it around, but overall do seem able to compete. Very nearly beat Saracens and could well of done on another day. The reverse fixture in the Michelin will be very interesting for this Clermont team finding its feet, which im sure it will have by January which is when you kind of what it all to start clicking.

Leinster were impressive in my opinion compared to how I thought they'd do. I thought it would be a painful game to watch given their injury woes and at times managerial incompetence. But in the second half they bloody well pulled it together and probably should of hammered Wasps in the end but for lack of clinicalness 5 metres out from their try line. Will be interesting to see how they'll do in the January fixtures with hopefully some major names back. But they will face Quins in December with no real names back, and possibly more injuries. For them, I believe Kearney needs to be the 15 and in his absence Kirchner. Madigan needs to be at 12 or 10 only, the guy has some zip and spark about him and on his day is the most exciting centre in Britain and Ireland for me. The backrow was impressive.

Ulster were their own worst enemies at Leicester. Pretty much every score Leicester got was from stupidity from Ulster. Marshall seems very prone to brain farts, and Payne isn't effective at 13. As soon as Olding came on into the centre Ulsters distribution improved markedly and they scored that super Bowe try, probably the try of the round. Ulster are all about fluidity, pace and a varied passing game, they can't even begin to attempt that with a poor centre combination.

Toulon looked very average in their tie. Scarlets were well in the game until the final 15. An intercept try would've given them the team by that stage. Toulon don't look to have the intensity that they had last year that would blow teams away at home. They still however have the best breakdown work in Europe at the moment thanks to Armitage, Smith and Lobbe - What a combination that is. They need a split second and they've won a penalty or turnover. They're there for the taking I believe if they dont step it up two gears. Maybe this is what happens to a team when they win that many trophies in two seasons and they lose Wilko who was the mental leader of the squad. Then again, its October, if you're average now its much better than being red hot and burning out by the end. Ulster next week should be aiming to win and deny them a bonus point, which'll be two consecutive lost bonus's in the space of a week, which in such a tight pool could be huge.
 

mxyzptlk

Colin Windon (37)
Could anyone be so kind as to reccommend which Champions Cup match replays I should bother to watch?
Along with Highlander35's tips, I'd say Racing Metro-Northampton, mainly because of the implications (one side gunning for a league title, one side defending a league title); that was a game about which forward back could bull the other. That could be worth watching the highlights, unless you want to watch 80 minutes of fight and see who stands up at the end. Saracens-Clermont was intense; both teams played well, and as a neutral, I didn't want to see either side go down (but I had just heard an interview with Brad Barritt, and he's an immensely good guy, so that swayed me). And if you're up for occasional wide-open fast-break rugby, check out Leinster-Wasps, at least the highlights. Christian Wade is Wasps Carlin Isles -- the sharpest weapon on offense, but comparatively blunt on defense.
 
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