Northern Hemisphere Rugby Season 14/15

[the plastic paddy]

I'm not about to blame Joe Schmidt for the failings of any of the provinces this season -- that's a cop-out, especially when the players manage to perform basic skills in the few weeks with the national set-up that they flub back home. If they can only transfer a ball when Joe Schmidt is coaching, they should just imagine he's always watching (because he is). And if spending time with the national set-up made players rusty for their clubs, Robshaw, Marler and Brown wouldn't have played one of their better Quins games of late against Leinster.

In other news, JJ Hanrahan is starting at 12 at Clermont. Just a cynical ploy to keep Hanrahan at home (YOU ARE WANTED), or is this going to be something consistent? I'll believe it when I see it.

I was being facetious although I thought the order from on high that St Joe's squad players couldn't play against Ulster was a bit strange and didn't help Munster against Clermont.

Anyway, what a turd of a game that was in Landsdowne road last night. Two teams playing terrible, error strewn rugby. I am not a massive fan of Reddan by any stretch but even I could spot that it was insanity for him to be riding pine. Thankfully for Leinster he took his chance and managed to drag them over the line. It is a bit ludicrous that both these teams are long odds on to make the QFs. Only positives were Ross handling Marler easily enough even if Jack McGrath had a tough night. Madigan or the Viscount Wonderhair as he is known on MF played well and I thought Luke did well, if he stays fit and along with earls that is a massive IF, he might offer something in the 13 channel.

Call me deluded but I think Munster are going to win today. Hopefully Ulster can put Bandy legs and his merry men to the sword and put a nail in Leicester's qualification coffin.

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

Not sure how JS is getting blame here.

Something is badly wrong at Leinster. You can say to an extent it is down to having all our major ball carriers out, but then again so did Ireland in the autumn who beat both Australia and SA who are a tad bit better than a Quins team that are poor this season, they are not the Quins team of the past two or three seasons with their first half of the season. This Leinster team should of won with a try bonus point at home and probably should of won away from home at Quins given their Euro pedigree and talent in the team.

The problem to me is that MOC wants Leinster to play like Leicester, but Leinster aren't Leicester, Leinster are about free running when possible, and abrasive forward play when suitable. Leicester is all about big ball carriers and trying to Springbok teams into submission, which again, Leinster are not set up for with their forwards or backs. The players look lost, the players look confused and on top of it all theres a huge sense of building anger from fans.

I'd be worried if some major players had contract renewals this season, and they had a high class offer from Toulon, that we might of lost them. Thankfully Heaslip and SOB did theres last season. Hopefully Sexton will help smooth some cracks over next season. I hate bashing MOC, I kinda like the guy he's doing his best and you can't fault that, but Leinster was not the right team for him. He should be coaching an English team and I reckon he could do a great job over there. Leinster need someone a bit different.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Sam Burgess. Yes of course it's much more difficult. Reminds me of SBW's comments, i.e., League was that bit more physically demanding because the ball's in play more, but Union's just as tiring because there's a lot more thinking to do.

Clarification: SBW said that playing league as a forward was more physically demanding for him than playing union as a center. League forwards, particularly in the NRL over recent years, carry the ball more than just about anyone on the pitch. The work gets spread around a bit more in union.

 

[mxyzptlk]

I am not a massive fan of Reddan by any stretch but even I could spot that it was insanity for him to be riding pine.

Reddan seemed to be the first Leinster player in a while to remember that they play best when they play with pace and tempo. They didn't sustain it, and it probably went against MOC's orders, but when Reddan decided to keep the phases ticking over as quick-time, they showed some promise.

I don't know how Leinster maintain that, because it doesn't seem to be how MOC wants them to play.

 

[mxyzptlk]

I hate bashing MOC, I kinda like the guy he's doing his best and you can't fault that, but Leinster was not the right team for him. He should be coaching an English team and I reckon he could do a great job over there. Leinster need someone a bit different.

What's strange, or at least frustrating, is he was credited with opening up Leicester's offense when he was their attack coach. But his first order of priority at Leinster was defense, and the attack seems to have been limited. As a result, neither have been fantastic.

But I'm not sure if MOC would be any more successful leading a Premiership team: He seems to want to mold players into his idea of how to play rather than work with what he's got, and it's not obvious that he has a clear idea of how he wants his team to play. There are only a handful of teams in the Premiership that could implement his current Leinster game plan with regular success -- including Leicester, maybe thudding teams like Saracens and Northampton. Would his current game plan work for a side like Exeter, or Quins, or Wasps? Even Bath have been using their backs more than Leinster.

That's why I suspect MOC may be a better assistant than a head coach -- he might be better at executing other people's plans than coming up with his own.

 

[the plastic paddy]

Reddan seemed to be the first Leinster player in a while to remember that they play best when they play with pace and tempo. They didn't sustain it, and it probably went against MOC's orders, but when Reddan decided to keep the phases ticking over as quick-time, they showed some promise.

I don't know how Leinster maintain that, because it doesn't seem to be how MOC wants them to play.

Leinster miss Plug more than anyone. Healy, SOB and BOD are/were great players but Plug was a dirty fecker who got through a rake of the unseen stuff. That said MOC is a tool. Very proud of Munster after today, given ourselves a sliver of a chance.

 

[the plastic paddy]

Add Jennings into the Plug mix as well. Along with Reddan three tremendous players at club level even if they are not quite international class.

 

[mxyzptlk]

A thing that's been irritating me for a while is the way some England fans/commentators sniff about how the Irish sides are underperforming simply because they don't get to rest players in the PRO 12 like they did in previous seasons.

I'm not sure that's the case. Injury seems to be playing a bigger role than any enforced rest periods this season, and it's not like the players in England's national set-up aren't also given rest periods. But I'd like to see some stats on just how many PRO 12 games some of the Irish national players have played this year compared to last year, and how many of the games they didn't play were do to injury. The only team with any stability this year has been Connacht, while Ulster and Munster are operating under new coaching regimes (Ulster more erratically, considering how they were left by Humphreys), and Leinster didn't play all that different last year from this year.

But if it's all about the rested Irish players for the English, I hope Cian Healy and Sean O'Brien, among others coming off injured reserve, are well rested come the next European round. (What's the word on Keith Earls and Donnacha Ryan?)

 

[RugbyReg]

Not sure if its been covered elsewhere here, but can I ask a question? What's the deal with Digby? Is he playing? has he played? What's his form been like? How's he looking (Fashion-wise)?

 

[the plastic paddy]

A thing that's been irritating me for a while is the way some England fans/commentators sniff about how the Irish sides are underperforming simply because they don't get to rest players in the PRO 12 like they did in previous seasons.

I'm not sure that's the case. Injury seems to be playing a bigger role than any enforced rest periods this season, and it's not like the players in England's national set-up aren't also given rest periods. But I'd like to see some stats on just how many PRO 12 games some of the Irish national players have played this year compared to last year, and how many of the games they didn't play were do to injury. The only team with any stability this year has been Connacht, while Ulster and Munster are operating under new coaching regimes (Ulster more erratically, considering how they were left by Humphreys), and Leinster didn't play all that different last year from this year.

But if it's all about the rested Irish players for the English, I hope Cian Healy and Sean O'Brien, among others coming off injured reserve, are well rested come the next European round. (What's the word on Keith Earls and Donnacha Ryan?)

Fingers crossed they and Varley are close, not sure what is happening with Killer and Cronin. Jennings is meant to be back for StStephen's although MOC will probably play a lock at 7. The provinces have not been playing the Irish lads anymore this year, hardly any of them played in the pro 12 round before the Nigels cup which I think was the reason for Munster's rustiness. St Joe is giving players a lot of time with an eye on the rwc, IMHO. I suspect that Paulie, POM and Murray will only play the Leinster game over the Christmas period before the last two Nigel games and then they won't pull on a Munster Jersey until April. If it gets the win against France in the RWC it will have been worth it, as long as all four provinces get into the Nigels cup that is. I really want to see Connacht against two English teams who have to go to the sports ground in a hurricane.

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

Couple of things on my mind.

Just rewatched Clermont Vs Munster again. How good are Clermont, not just this year but just in general the past 7/8 years? I firmly believe Clermont could beat the AB's or Boks in the Marcel Michelin, they're unstoppable when they want to score. Its a mix of Bok power and French flair at its best. They run over you and throw ridiculous passes that just click. If you ever get the chance to listen to Clermont at home with French commentary when they go through phase play, you'll be in rugby heaven. Munster didn't do too much wrong, but it was just inevitable that Clermont would score, the only way to stop them was to use the actual stadium itself against them and boot it into the stands. Ball in hand, if they want to score, they will when its on these guys don't screw up at home. Sublime.

Secondly, the Irish provinces aren't in decline. They've all had pretty serious body blows however, both at managerial levels and at player levels. Ulster lost their coach and manager, Munster finally adapted to Penny's style and lost the guy (but to be honest, they should of beaten Clermont at home but for whatever reason they didn't show up and Clermont certainly did, I wouldn't back Clermont to win there again if they played this week). Leinster are in a bit of a state and need a new coach I hate to say. The English teams are just living up to potential, its not like they're big spenders. English teams are fairly mediocre on the whole when it comes to big name signings. Its only Toulon, Clermont and Toulouse that are the big spenders in Europe that are of another level of threat that'll be hard to compete with(Racing aren't in the same league).

 

[the plastic paddy]

Leinster are an absolute shambles under this clown of a coach. Ulster have been ruined by injuries this season to nearly an entire first team. Humphreys leaving them in the lurch didn't help but when you lose the players Ulster have you are always likely to struggle. Munster were dreadful in TP against Clermont but scraped the LBP in ASM which gives us a chance if we can win the game everyone is most desperate to win against the hateful Saracens in their stupid stadium.

On the English teams, their three wins last weekend against foreign opposition were against second teams, including Treviso seconds who would probably be the worst pro team in the world apart from London Welsh, Montpellier and Castres. Saracens managed to beat Sale seconds at home but couldn't pick up a try BP. Leicester were stuffed by Toulon and Harlequins couldn't manage to get past a Leinster team who weren't even playing a game that many of us would recognize as rugby.

 

[Lee Grant]

Not sure if its been covered elsewhere here, but can I ask a question? What's the deal with Digby? Is he playing? has he played? What's his form been like? How's he looking (Fashion-wise)?

He hasn't played a lot in the Top14 because of injury (three times since the end of September). He has played in the Challenge Cup (the poor relation of the Championship Cup - the old Heineken Cup) but they don't really signify because some teams play a lot of scrubbers, and I don't watch it.

Before his injury he played OK in a few Top14 games that I saw but wasn't a standout.

He plays for Stade Francais, one of the two Paris teams, with Hugh Pyle who is going OK without killing them. David Lyons and Richard Kingi are also on the roster but have been crocked the whole season.
.

 

[qwerty51]

Ioane has been shocking, he's copping a bit of flak for it too basically saying he doesn't care.

 

[Lee Grant]

Just rewatched Clermont Vs Munster again. How good are Clermont, not just this year but just in general the past 7/8 years?

Clermont are the best European team to watch because they run with the ball - it's like watching the Waratahs play sometimes, but they have some of their negatives too.

They nearly always start the season well, as they are doing this year, but they seem to fade away towards the end. This year they seem to have more starch, but I've said that before.

What a try against Munster by Noa Nakaitaci last weekend - it would have to be one of the individual tries of the ERCC to date - and how good to watch Wesley Fofana every time he gets the ball.

The Munster kicking game let them down; against most teams it wouldn't have mattered too much, but Clermont chose to launch some brilliancies from the errors and that was that.

Leinster were bloody lucky that Swiel couldn't kick some of his goals, and Ulster looked ordinary except for their try after oranges.

You have to feel sorry for Pienaar - he has pulled so many Ulster victories out of his arse at the death, yet he threw that horror interception at the end to kill any chance of winning, and to forgo the losing bonus point.

It was like watching the Under 10s.
.

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

Carter heading to Racing next year. Was always going to happen. Euro rugby is being ruined by these clubs.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Fingers crossed they and Varley are close, not sure what is happening with Killer and Cronin. Jennings is meant to be back for StStephen's although MOC will probably play a lock at 7. The provinces have not been playing the Irish lads anymore this year, hardly any of them played in the pro 12 round before the Nigels cup which I think was the reason for Munster's rustiness. St Joe is giving players a lot of time with an eye on the rwc, IMHO. I suspect that Paulie, POM and Murray will only play the Leinster game over the Christmas period before the last two Nigel games and then they won't pull on a Munster Jersey until April. If it gets the win against France in the RWC it will have been worth it, as long as all four provinces get into the Nigels cup that is. I really want to see Connacht against two English teams who have to go to the sports ground in a hurricane.

Did you see this? Earls is on his way.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Carter heading to Racing next year. Was always going to happen. Euro rugby is being ruined by these clubs.

I wonder if there'll be a bubble for this sort of thing. Probably not, if football is any indication, but after a while if some of these sugar daddies aren't bringing home hardware through their spending, they might re-invest some of that in academies and the market will level out.

Plus I recall Bernard Jackman talking about the way the inflation is working in France -- like how if one prop is making 700,000 or more, then all the other props prices go up whether they're worth it or not. He didn't see that as particularly sustainable (and he's shown a well-coached team without all the cash can go pretty well in the Top 14). For all the money being spent in France, it's really only a handful of teams getting anything for it -- Toulon, Toulouse, Racing Metro, and maybe Clermont, but Clermont seem more focused on French players than the other sides. It either keeps going like this until there's nothing but French rugby, or something has to give. I can't imagine many of those owners would be too happy shelling out millions a year and not bringing home any trophies, and there are only a couple to win each year. But if it's bringing in people through the gates, I suppose that's enough for most.

Ach.

 

[the plastic paddy]

It's not sugar daddies in France so much as ludicrous amounts of TV money. Carter has been a wonderful player but a million quid a year is silly for a man of his age and injury profile, imho.

 

[mxyzptlk]

It's not sugar daddies in France so much as ludicrous amounts of TV money. Carter has been a wonderful player but a million quid a year is silly for a man of his age and injury profile, imho.

That injury profile, especially. In the past couple years the man's been made of glass. My wife and I were playing a game, giving for and against arguments about New Zealand defending the World Cup. Carte's injury profile and his lack of game time due to that injury profile were in the against arguments.

But that just means if Johan Goosen stays at RM, he'll be getting more game time.