Non-partisan views

[Garryowen]

The latest debate around wallaby squad selections has simply reinforced my view that provincialism, rather than objectivity, is the key driver of which side of the fence people will fall when it comes to a contentious selection.

Accordingly, if only to rekindle some faith in rational analysis, I think it's worthwhile to have a thread whereby posters express views that run contrary to natural, biased alternatives.

I'll commence:
- Peter Betham shouldn't be anywhere near a Wallaby jersey at the moment
- Dave Dennis is ineffective and lacks the dynamism required at the highest level
- Ed Quirk was unlucky to miss out on the squad
- I'm glad to see Quade Cooper back in the fold

What say you?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I am similarly glad to see QC (Quade Cooper) back, if for no other reason than it gives the opportunity to put the QC (Quade Cooper) is a toxic spoilt brat vs QC (Quade Cooper) is the saviour of Australian Rugby argument to bed hopefully once and for all.

He is playing the best of all the possible candidates from Soup rugby ATM, and in a somewhat Bradburyesque scenario, he should get the #10 run on slot.

With respect to your point about the Gaggerlanders being objective and rational - wash your mouth, disinfect your keyboard. HTF do we get to 100+ pages on certain threads by being rational and objective.

There is a remarkable similarity between the selections advocated by Gaggerlanders and the little icon indicating which team they support. This can be either real out and out bias and provincialism or simply based on the fact they they don't have foxtel and base their views on games that they watch in person. Obviously they will form a stronger opinion about the players that they see play 7 or 8 games live, as well as in the odd club game as opposed the interstate player that they see live once a soup season.

 

[Garryowen]

I am similarly glad to see QC (Quade Cooper) back, if for no other reason than it gives the opportunity to put the QC (Quade Cooper) is a toxic spoilt brat vs QC (Quade Cooper) is the saviour of Australian Rugby argument to bed hopefully once and for all.

He is playing the best of all the possible candidates from Soup rugby ATM, and in a somewhat Bradburyesque scenario, he should get the #10 run on slot.

With respect to your point about the Gaggerlanders being objective and rational - wash your mouth, disinfect your keyboard. HTF do we get to 100+ pages on certain threads by being rational and objective.

There is a remarkable similarity between the selections advocated by Gaggerlanders and the little icon indicating which team they support. This can be either real out and out bias and provincialism or simply based on the fact they they don't have foxtel and base their views on games that they watch in person. Obviously they will form a stronger opinion about the players that they see play 7 or 8 games live, as well as in the odd club game as opposed the interstate player that they see live once a soup season.

The last point is very fair and well taken.

I'm more than happy to admit that I don't watch every game of soup involving an Aussie team. That would be more than excessive in my view.

 

[Sully]

I'm more than happy to admit that I don't watch every game of soup involving an Aussie team. That would be more than excessive in my view.

WHAT!!! Wannabe supporter!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^Clearly a wannabe. That is why this heretical suggestion of balance, fairness, objectivity and rational thought was made in the first place, and why this thread may need to remain in the suggested thread category, never given sufficient blog oxygen credits to survive with the big boy cousins.

 

[Sully]

Okay in the spirit of the thread I think

Harris does not deserve to be in the squad.
Kuridrani is a fantastic selection
The article from David Lord suggesting Leali'ifano should be shifted from 12 to make room for Folau is complete bollocks. BOLLOCKS I SAID! Good day to you Sir!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

There is a remarkable similarity between the selections advocated by Gaggerlanders and the little icon indicating which team they support. This can be either real out and out bias and provincialism or simply based on the fact they they don't have foxtel and base their views on games that they watch in person. Obviously they will form a stronger opinion about the players that they see play 7 or 8 games live, as well as in the odd club game as opposed the interstate player that they see live once a soup season.

Its a rare player that impresses me more after 8 viewings than 2!

Dennis is lucky to be there and is surely on borrowed time.
I dont think Foley is a test 5/8 or 15.
Betham shouldn't be there.
I'm going off Douglas.

 

[cyclopath]

Dave Dennis would need to show his absolute best form to outpoint other options at 6. Lucky. Very good Super rugby player though.
Betham - too many weak areas at the moment.
Pyle and Fardy - YES!
Sio - yes, yes, yes. Beast.
QC (Quade Cooper) - yes, because I think he is much better than some detractors think, and if anyone will get the best from him, it will be McKenzie. And he's a 10.
Kuridrani - yes. Just develop him as the next 13. Talent and size.
Sorry, I can't do this for Harris. He stays in the "WTF?" folder for me. I tried.

 

[Ruggo]

I don't think Harris should be there.
I don't think CFS should be there
I think Fardy is a good selection though feel a little sorry for Sam Carter who I rate highly.
I think Pyle is a good selection.
I think Bethem is a good selection and shows some boldness.
I think Kuindrani is a good selection. I would be interested to see what he is capable of in a attacking environment. I suspect we have not seen the best of him despite what we have seen being impressive.

I think the bias argument is bull shit and unfounded. Break down the squad selection and you will find the distribution between the strongest franchises very even.

I think the slate is clean and players should be judged on merit from here on under this coaches vision. I think some players have been painter unfairly due to some odd choices by previous coaches.

I think critics should start assessing teams as one unit rather than individuals.

 

[tigerland12]

Pyle, Sio, Fardy, Kuridrani, Shatz, F'Sautia all good selections. Players are in form and its a look to the future.

Peter Betham, best of the rest with Davies and Crawford injured. Although I think Morahan is hard done by, and even Tom English has looked like a good prospect.

Mike Harris on the other hand........the fuck?

At least Link has picked players that are in fom.

 

[wamberal]

When I peruse our current wingers, I ask myself one question. When is Speight available?


I believe that Folau will end up in the centres, no doubt about it. Either slot, actually.


Skelton will be the next big thing. Sio should move to THP sooner rather than later, we have several good young LHPs on the way up. Salesi Manu in particular, but keep your eye on Jed Gillespie (a bit of partisanship, I must admit).


I too have deep reservations about Foley, mainly because he cannot kick. That is a slight drawback for a ten, innit? Betham needs to play a season of basketball to learn how to handle. Davies is too small.


I also have high hopes for CFS.


We cannot rely on Beale and JOC (James O'Connor), unfortunately, I am really sad to say that.


Dennis? Nup.


We desperately need a replacement for Palu. Mowen is okay, but not a game-breaker.

 

[swingpass]

from what i have seen this season, rebels live (a lot) the other aussie franchises live once and on TV a bit

i also think dennis and betham very lucky.

didn't see enough reds games to really comment, but morohan seems hardly done by

cannot understand picking harris over horne but accept the arguments put forward by others on g&g with regards to versatilty.

CFS is obviously a longterm project and in that respect, think jones over quirk if you were to pick one of them (which might have been considered instead of dennis)

foley not up to it (yet ?)

i like douglas, but he hasn't come on this year as one might have expected.

the rest of the newbies deserved their selection.

and FFS leave folau at either wing or fullback.

ps great to see QC (Quade Cooper) back, imo at the moment the only really international class 10 we have. as neither a queenslander nor a new south welshman i have no axe to grind. his upside far out ways his errors. in the future To'omua may be more balanced option, but not ready yet

 

[Brumby Runner]

I applaud the selections of Pyle and CFS. Lots of potential and shows Link has an eye to the future. Most other newbies are Brumbies so won't comment on those. Of the injured contingent, only Godwin and Crawford appeal to me. Of those left out, I think Jones and Neville are knocking on the door. Both imo would be a more worthy inclusions than Dennis or McCalman simply because they are the future. Barring injuries, don't think either Dennis or McCalman have many, if any, tests left in them.

I do think that regular viewing of all provinces on Foxtel gives you a better balanced view of the whole talent pool. I would guess, for instance, that those advocating for Rocket Rod don't get to regularly assess the merits of other wing contenders.

 

[Christopher McDonald]

I applaud the selections of Pyle and CFS. Lots of potential and shows Link has an eye to the future. Most other newbies are Brumbies so won't comment on those. Of the injured contingent, only Godwin and Crawford appeal to me. Of those left out, I think Jones and Neville are knocking on the door. Both imo would be a more worthy inclusions than Dennis or McCalman simply because they are the future. Barring injuries, don't think either Dennis or McCalman have many, if any, tests left in them.

I do think that regular viewing of all provinces on Foxtel gives you a better balanced view of the whole talent pool. I would guess, for instance, that those advocating for Rocket Rod don't get to regularly assess the merits of other wing contenders.

I agree, it really is the best way to be able to judge players in comparison to others. I watch all games except those played in SA. Far too late/early to watch live and I can't watch replays!
Regarding the squad, 40 is a huge amount of players to have. You're more likely to be in it than not considering there are 75 players in total across the 5 Australian Super 15 run on sides. It will be more interesting when they narrow it down.

 

[Dumbledore]

As a Rebels supporter there's not a whole lot to really be partisan about. Don't even have to pretend to like Phipps any more. A few selections I'm super keen on though.

Betham - I don't care if he's got dodgy hands, he's an absolute beast who makes linebreaks like its cool and scores tries to boot. He's got sheer raw talent, who knows what Link will be able to turn him into.

Fardy - A proper form pick. Absolute workhorse, proper breakdown grunt.

Sio - Monster. The sooner he gets involved the better.

CFS - Another player with the talent to suceed at the absolute highest level. A guy like that is only going to get better by training and playing with the absolute best. He'll learn a lot from AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

Foley - Even if his kicking game is shaky at best, he can get a backline absolutely flying. It's a positve, attacking, selection - even if he doesn't make the final 30.

There's a few meh players in the squad for mine - Douglas, Simmons, Dennis, Harris, S. Fainga'a, Schatz - but there's a lot to be excited about.

 

[Forcefield]

It is a shame Alfie Mafi fucked things up because I reckon he would have been ahead of Betham. I reckon Morahan would have been a better selection, but I doubt it will matter as Betham probably won't play a game.

Some of the backrowers going around are interesting. I reckon our 6s need to be in the mould of MMM, Peter Kimlin or Luke Jones. I reckon the 8s should be devastating like Wycliff Palu or a superb all rounder like Ben Mowen. I don't really see guys like Ben McCalman, Dave Dennis, Ed Quirk, etc. At international level they work hard but they don't achieve enough.

 

[USARugger]

Why do so many people seem to have such a hard-on for moving one of the best broken play runners and the best high-ball player in Australia to the centers?

Just stop

 

[Lindommer]

My non-partisan views:

Horne very unlucky not to get the call from Link. What more does Rob have to do?
Betham VERY lucky to get a guernsey.
Harris, why? If Link wants his kicking to rub off on the others, FFS EMPLOY A KICKING COACH!
Too many halfling/6/8s in Oz rugby recently: Dennis, McCalman, Mowen, MMM, Higginbotham and Kimlin. And before them Hodgson and Brown. When they're all fit (and available) for duty, Higgers, MMM, Mowen and Kimlin deserve their spots but as they aren't Link has to see how they all knuckle down in training. Don't see how both Dennis AND McCalman can make the squad.
A Fainga'a. MMmm? Good Super player, can't say the same for Ant's performances at test level.
Hanson should get a chance to improve our depth at hooker.

 

[Braveheart81]

With a 40 man squad, I think it is generally the case and also should be the case that the last few players in the squad are further away from being test players than a bunch of players who have been left out.

With a squad of that size, a few of your picks should be with the idea of providing a benefit in 1 to 3 years time rather than right now.

I see the selections of Betham, CFS, Schatz and Foley as examples of this.

 

[scaraby]

think 1 to 15 in the Wobs should be replaced by 1 to 15 from the ABs...there think I got the hang of this thread