No Ben Mowen thread?

[Train Without a Station]

You're overrating the bloke's captaincy, underrating Higginbotham as a player and also basing you're view of him on a preconceived notion of one indiscretion against you're previous Sir Richie.

Qwerty put it succinctly. He was a temporary appointment, being in the right place at the right time. Ultimately he probably wasn't going to be in the team, and is around 30.

 

[Dan54]

I not sure why anyone seeing anything into Mowen going, thought he made it pretty clear why. Funnily enough I just got back from NZ where I read about it and mentioned it to a sister who said her son who played in a pretty popular band from NZ, had moved overseas with partner, had been on a tour recording etc etc and when he returned was dismayed to find his 3 yo son took a while to get used to him again, so immediately rung band and resigned, and he has no real alternate income, so she could understand Mowen's reasoning completely!!

 

[Brumby Runner]

Mowen is technically the incumbent captain but there's little substance to it. Firstly in 2014 Mowen would struggle to even make the 23 with Palu and Higginbotham fit and he was only picked as captain ahead of Genia and Horwill because both of them had poor form and were told to concentrate on themselves. I'd put Mowen behind Pocock, Horwill and Genia right now if he even made the team. Calling him a very successful test captain is superficial, he won games against 4 teams he was expected to and lost against the one he wasn't. Since when did a captain get so much credit for the team winning anyway? He was never a high performing player on the tour as well. In just about every game except Italy he was outplayed by Hooper and Fardy.

Mowen is hardly the main man responsible for turning around the Wallabies form, more to do with Link's game plan finally coming together with time.

Like I said before, he's leaving at 30 years old and is a fringe Test player. There's nothing too concerning at all. NZ and SA lose much younger players overseas.

Qwerty - not much I agree with in your post, but in relation to captains getting credit for teams winning, Richie is celebrated all over the rugby world not only for his playing, but for his inimitable success as a captain.

 

[Sully]

I agree with everything he said.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

We love our conspiracy theories, and cutting tall poppies down to size don't we?

I say let him go with some dignity intact.

Good luck to Ben.

Get out while the going is good. Make hay, and lots of it, while the sun is shining.

It is best to leave on your own terms, rather than be dropped.

Regardless of what you think about his skills as a player and captain, history will record Ben as the 80th Captain of the Wobs, and you will need to make 30000 posts on these boards to be awarded "Ben Mowen" status.

 

[2bluesfan]

I say let him go with some dignity intact.

.......

Regardless of what you think about his skills as a player and captain, history will record Ben as the 80th Captain of the Wobs, and you will need to make 30000 posts on these boards to be awarded "Ben Mowen" status.

Totally agree, apart from your wording about "some dignity". I know what you mean though - this man has not only been a Wallaby, he has captained his country. I captained Parra Fifths one day (we lost!)

 

[Slim 293]

You're overrating the bloke's captaincy, underrating Higginbotham as a player and also basing you're view of him on a preconceived notion of one indiscretion against you're previous Sir Richie.

Qwerty put it succinctly. He was a temporary appointment, being in the right place at the right time. Ultimately he probably wasn't going to be in the team, and is around 30.

Muttobird is clearly looking for some bites, but to be fair this just seems like the equally absurd polar opposite argument.........

Higginbotham is an average player, a thug, and not worth the card risk.

This is such an exaggeration, but I think a lot of people have forgotten that over the past few years Higginbotham has not been a very good test player...........

Mowen hardly set the world alight, but his form in the Lions series and in a couple of matches on the EOYT was an improvement on anything Higginbotham has offered up in test rugby.........

I don't mean to write off Higgers' potential, but so far he is the Adam Thomson of Australian rugby.........

 

[Bullrush]

what more do you want from the bastard? an admission to guilt for every conspiracy theory out there, including being the sole perpetrator of the global warming conspiracy?

he has made a clear statement about his intentions and his reasons, well in advance of the season to allow for appropriate team/succession planning.

so i'll ask again - what more do you want from him?

I don't want anything from him.

I'm just saying that I don't believe his move is all about his family. If he got the ARU top-up he was looking for, I don't think he'd be going anywhere.



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[kiap]

If he got the ARU top-up he was looking for, I don't think he'd be going anywhere.

Do you think he warranted this ARU top-up "he was looking for"?

And how much was it?

 

[emuarse]

I refer to a posting on Ben Mowen I did back on 2/10/13 which I'm copying in here. This was prior to his appointment as Wallabies captain and European tour, but the logic is even more obvious.

"Back to Ben Mowen.
As Brumbies skipper he'd have to be earning close to $400k there. Plus say 10 games this season with the Wallabies is $140,000. So he is getting over $500k p.a. plus some sponsorships meaning probably $550k to $600K.
His problem (and his manager would know it), is that when Pocock, Higginsbotham, and Palu come back into the side, plus up & coming younger players like Gill & Wil Skelton, then Mowen could be out of the 23 group.
Therefore less game payments. So he's striking while all his planets are aligned. But the ARU would also be aware of the situation, and I can't see them falling over themselves to give Mowen a top up.
In fact, in cases like Mowen's I think the two year top up rule is a good one. If he's good enough, he'll be in the dough. If not, then 'bon voyage', if that's what he chooses to do."

Time changes some things, but not his reasoning regarding his future. The thought of rooster one day, feather duster the next, would be hard to live with i.e Wallaby skipper to not in the squad.
Who wouldn't go for the big lucre offered overseas at this stage of their career.
And yes, a chance to experience the world with your family - good luck to him, he's been a good servant of Australian rugby

 

[Pete King]

Mowen: 80% test win record as captain. Up there with Richie.

Well there you go, this statement sums u up champ

 

[Train Without a Station]

Slim, you're a little harsh on Higgers. If the bloke played 10 consecutive starting tests in a calendar year, I'm sure he would be able to go a long way to translate his great Super Rugby form to test form.

The fact of the matter is that if Mowen was 25, this would be a big deal. He's almost 29 though, which is why it's not.

 

[TOCC]

29 and in a position where we have 2 other candidates who are of a similar calibre.

A good player, a loss to Australian rugby but hardly the end of the world.

 

[Bullrush]

Do you think he warranted this ARU top-up "he was looking for"?

And how much was it?

Did he warrant it? I don't know. Imagine if Palu gets injured again (it's not really THAT hard to see that happening is it?!?) and Higgers goes down as well (which is far from impossible - ask Drew Mitchell) then maybe the ARU will regret letting him go.

But it is hard to see where he would fit in with those guys firing.

The other possibility is that he out-plays both of them in Super Rugby this year. Then you'd be kicking yourself.

I don't envy the ARU in this situation.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Bullrush, with both injury free I very much doubt Ben will outplay them in Super Rugby. There's a reason why the bloke hasn't done so yet (barring injuries to Palu and Higginbotham), they are simply more talented footballers.

Ben's a hard worker whose graft has been handy, but you can't go giving out top ups to blokes who are likely 3rd in line for a position, the money isn't there.

The ARU should not regret letting him go, they may end up needing him perhaps, but with limited money to contract players, so a limited available, he doesn't quite warrant it.

Prioritising Mowen would be aiming for mediocrity (That's a little harsh, but the best word I could think of). I'd rather we prioritise the best so we can strive to be the best barring injury, than make safe contractual decisions which will never get us to Number 1.

 

[Swat]

Higginbotham is an average player, a thug, and not worth the card risk.

I'd have agreed with you 2 years ago. However last year before his injury he'd stepped up his game and attitude massively. Giving him the rebels captaincy was a stroke of genius. Can't wait to see what he does this year.

 

[qwerty51]

If Higginbotham is a thug for one act of foul play on Richie what does that make Nonu, Mealamu, Woodcock and Owen Franks?

And for all these people who keep insinuating that Palu never gets on the field - he played more Test rugby than Higginbotham in 2012 and 2013.

 

[TOCC]

It's an exaggeration to say he never gets on the field, but there is no denying that he has been injured quite a lot since 2010/2011.

 

[Braveheart81]

It's an exaggeration to say he never gets on the field, but there is no denying that he has been injured quite a lot since 2010/2011.

Absolutely, but it's also hard to find 6s and 8s who haven't had a lot of injuries.

As has been mentioned, Higginbotham missed plenty of rugby in 2012 and 2013.

McCalman and Brown have both had multiple serious injuries in the last few years.

McMeniman is broken more than he is healthy.

Dennis and Mowen have managed to remain fairly injury free (or played through injury in the case of Mowen).

 

[Bullrush]

If Higginbotham is a thug for one act of foul play on Richie what does that make Nonu, Mealamu, Woodcock and Owen Franks?

And for all these people who keep insinuating that Palu never gets on the field - he played more Test rugby than Higginbotham in 2012 and 2013.

I wouldn't have called him a thug. He's more likely to do that niggly little shit and try to get away with the small digs by trying to make it look accidental than straight up spearing someone or throwing a punch in the open.

That's just my take on him......