Next Wallabies Coach.

[No4918]

Just a hypothetical. I am not advocating for Jake White.

Jake Ball team

Slipper
Moore
Kepu
Skelton
Horwill
Fardy
Hooper
Mowen (c)
Genia
Cooper
Speight
To'omua
Kuridrani
Folau
JOC (James O'Connor)

Res: TPN, Sio, anyone but Alexander, Carter, Palu, White, Lilo, Hunt/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

Might work. JOC (James O'Connor) has a better boot than Folau and I think it was LG said 15 is his best position. Hunt may work there as well if he goes ok for the Reds. Palu off the bench for some impact and keep his workrate down, the guy just can't play the long minutes these days. Genia is an allrounder, good compromise between Phipps and White. He and Cooper could really improve there kicking if a coach was bought in to help, something you'd think White would do.

Looks like a good team no matter who is coaching. Swap Phipps and Genia to bench, Foley onto bench for Lilo and Cheika has himself a RWC winning team. Your welcome.

 

[Ulrich]

I know, but it's also the year immediately following the RWC win, and thus the old structures were still partially in place. The first year of a coach is always partially a legacy of his predecessor.

Surely there's no use in appointing Cheika or Jake White leading up to RWC 2015 then?

 

[TahDan]

For those intent on telling us how much better White would be for Australia, what do you think happened to him at the Shawks? Reports after his departure weren't all that glowing...

While White may not technically have been “fired” by the board of the Sharks, a stage had apparently been reached where White no longer headed a harmonious environment.

http://www.ehowzit.co.za/sport/rugby/report-jake-white-forced-wanted-fast-track-son-sharks-21-side/

 

[TahDan]

Surely there's no use in appointing Cheika or Jake White leading up to RWC 2015 then?

I said partially - that doesn't mean the coach has no influence, just that they haven't made the team fully their own until a solid year into the job.

It's worth pointing out that PdV also won the TN in 2009 and beat the Lions.

 

[Ulrich]

I said partially - that doesn't mean the coach has no influence, just that they haven't made the team fully their own until a solid year into the job.

It's worth pointing out that PdV also won the TN in 2009 and beat the Lions.

Yes, he did and that is on him and not Jake White. Both coaches won 1 Tri-Nations. The last time it happened for the Boks before that was 1998 so it's been a tough arena for South Africa (and Australia for that matter) in any event.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I thought as much. Lucky I didn't say anything then!

I'll go back and try and find the discussion then. I need to top my rage levels.

Just go searching for my posts. They're probably all insanely irrational in hindsight.

 

[Scoey]

If I did a search for your posts TWAS I reckon I would exceed my download limit just returning the search results.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Just a hypothetical. I am not advocating for Jake White.

Jake Ball team

Slipper
Moore
Kepu
Skelton
Horwill
Fardy
Hooper
Mowen (c)
Genia
Cooper
Speight
To'omua
Kuridrani
Folau
JOC (James O'Connor)

Res: TPN, Sio, anyone but Alexander, Carter, Palu, White, Lilo, Hunt/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

Might work. JOC (James O'Connor) has a better boot than Folau and I think it was LG said 15 is his best position. Hunt may work there as well if he goes ok for the Reds. Palu off the bench for some impact and keep his workrate down, the guy just can't play the long minutes these days. Genia is an allrounder, good compromise between Phipps and White. He and Cooper could really improve there kicking if a coach was bought in to help, something you'd think White would do.

Looks like a good team no matter who is coaching. Swap Phipps and Genia to bench, Foley onto bench for Lilo and Cheika has himself a RWC winning team. Your welcome.

No Mowen as he is gone. I'm doubtful on Skelton as he weakens the line out. He actually is more of a ball in hand player than a Jake Ball defending imposition style too. Probably Hodgo over Hooper for this style, there's no need for a loose running 7. Probably Palu at 8.

JOC (James O'Connor) probably lacks the length on the boot to really play the style well, and none of the wingers have a kicking game which would be an issue at international level against better defenses.

 

[Scrubber2050]

There is no doubt White is a good coach with good success.

There is also no doubt that his "style" of play is not favoured by most Australian rugby supporters - think Brumbie crowds were shithouse ??

History says he is fucking unreliable.

Hope he goes well with Tonga - Some of his supporters on this forum will be backing Tonga to win RWC 2015

 

[Scrubber2050]

Just a hypothetical. I am not advocating for Jake White.

Jake Ball team

Slipper
Moore
Kepu
Skelton
Horwill
Fardy
Hooper
Mowen (c)
Genia
Cooper
Speight
To'omua
Kuridrani
Folau
JOC (James O'Connor)

Res: TPN, Sio, anyone but Alexander, Carter, Palu, White, Lilo, Hunt/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

Might work. JOC (James O'Connor) has a better boot than Folau and I think it was LG said 15 is his best position. Hunt may work there as well if he goes ok for the Reds. Palu off the bench for some impact and keep his workrate down, the guy just can't play the long minutes these days. Genia is an allrounder, good compromise between Phipps and White. He and Cooper could really improve there kicking if a coach was bought in to help, something you'd think White would do.

Looks like a good team no matter who is coaching. Swap Phipps and Genia to bench, Foley onto bench for Lilo and Cheika has himself a RWC winning team. Your welcome.

No Mowen as he is gone. I'm doubtful on Skelton as he weakens the line out. He actually is more of a ball in hand player than a Jake Ball defending imposition style too. Probably Hodgo over Hooper for this style, there's no need for a loose running 7. Probably Palu at 8.

JOC (James O'Connor) probably lacks the length on the boot to really play the style well, and none of the wingers have a kicking game which would be an issue at international level against better defenses.

WHAT, No Moggy ??????? WTF

 

[Train Without a Station]

Well he hasn't been Super Rugby standard in 2014. Really lacks the size and physicality for international rugby.

 

[Ulrich]

On the White being self-serving issue it is interesting to note that O'Neill didn't approve of Jones being involved with the Springboks. He then says this:

In a sense, it tells you that the game has changed and coaches will take on jobs driven by motives other than loyalty and patriotism.

He then proceeds to appoint Robbie Deans in 2008.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2007-07-26/oneill-slams-jones-for-helping-springboks/2514098

Hypocrite or changed perspective?

 

[Train Without a Station]

John O'Neill? Pretty likely a massive hypocrite.

 

[Lorenzo]

Look at it this way. If Jake White was made coach, adopted the style of game he likes to coach and the Wallabies end up no more successful than they currently are but are playing in a style less attractive to fans, how do you think it will end up for Australian rugby?

And there's the problem - you'd rather be mediocre as long as they play with the ball.

Well you're in luck, since that's what we've had for a while.

 

[Ulrich]

If Jake White was made coach, adopted the style of game he likes to coach and the Wallabies end up no more successful than they currently are but are playing in a style less attractive to fans, how do you think it will end up for Australian rugby?

It's unlikely, but if the Wallabies won the RWC playing Jake's way?

I fail to see what has been attractive of the Australian game in recent years anyway to be honest.

 

[Lorenzo]

It's unlikely, but if the Wallabies won the RWC playing Jake's way?

I fail to see what has been attractive of the Australian game in recent years anyway to be honest.

This lot would still find reasons to constantly tell everyone how shit it is

 

[Train Without a Station]

@Ulrich, to quote the age old proverb. "If Australian wins a World Cup and nobody in Australia watches it to see it, did it really happen?"

 

[Braveheart81]

And there's the problem - you'd rather be mediocre as long as they play with the ball.

Well you're in luck, since that's what we've had for a while.

Again, that is a complete load of crap.

Where is the evidence that Jakeball will produce better results for the same team?

Where is the evidence that the best players in Australia are more suited to that style than another?

You make it sound like Jake White brings instant success to wherever he coaches. He won the RWC in 2007. That's quite a while ago now.

Your argument that the choice is either Jake White or ball in hand mediocrity is a complete straw man.

 

[Pfitzy]

Simmering down somewhat from the suggestion of Jake coaching us, here's how I see it (and therefore, pretty much how it is):

Jakeball allowed the Brumbies to turn around their shitty situation very well. It required good kickers, high levels of fitness and defense, and a technically excellent forward pack with its head screwed on at set piece time.

It still allows for freedom of expression in good players, but for a longer tournament like Super Rugby, its very difficult to sustain because of the attrition rate you're bound to encounter. The Brumbies showed that when it came down to the crunch, they weren't good enough to pull off the last win, either through inexperience against the Reds in 2012 or through fatigue - aggravated by the travel from South Africa to beat the Bulls.

It helped that the Brumbies had what Jakeball needs in terms of backs - a few guys with big boots, big units who can make gain line, and some wingers with a bit of toe.

The key things in both years was that Jakeball didn't deliver the Brumbies a top 2 spot, in a game plan that ultimately asks you to win every game by 1 point as a minimum. This is a key thing, as its not like they were short on talent.

Jakeball COULD work in a short tournament like RWC, where the attrition isn't such a big factor, but if your forwards can't dominate, you're not going to get a lot of change out of it.

Laurie Fisher is gone of course, which is the real shame.

 

[No4918]

Has the ARU announced a press conference yet for this afternoon?