New Zealand vs Australia Oct 11 2020 Bledisloe Cup

[dru]

Congrats to Michael Hooper. 100 caps, awesome achievement.

 

[cyclopath]

Bit surprised at some of the negativity re To'omua. I thought he played his role well today. In general I like what he offers us at 12 - experienced, not afraid of contact, strong defensively, gives us a second playmaker and his kicking in general play can be very effective. A few of his kicks tonight weren't the best option in hindsight but he also made a very nice kick in the first half on attack which resulted in a line-out on the All Blacks 5 metre line. Honestly I dont mind that like that they were keeping the defence guessing with the odd kick behind the defensive line. It's a refreshing change from the Chieka "Run the ball at all times" game plan.

Completely agree that short kicks behind the defensive line / grubbers etc are a good tactic to use at times, for exactly the reason you state - mix it up. However, To'omua executed almost all of them poorly today. Which means they (Wallabies) need to get better at them, not bin them per se.

 

[BDA]

Why do we react like the front row on the bench are somehow second rate? I would “bench” the whole front row, though I would call it rotation. But it’s not a big issue..

I don't disagree with idea that you need to rotate, but a few posters were suggesting the we'd get more out of Tupou having him come on in the final 20 minutes. That rubbish in my opinion. You want your best players on the field for as much of the game as possible. I think it would be dumb to have him sitting on the bench for the majority of the game. I don't think we are at the point where we need to start managing player workload by rotating the team, certainly not against the All Blacks at Eden Park

 

[dru]

I don't disagree with idea that you need to rotate, but a few posters were suggesting the we'd get more out of Tupou having him come on in the final 20 minutes. That rubbish in my opinion. You want your best players on the field for as much of the game as possible. I think it would be dumb to have him sitting on the bench for the majority of the game. I don't think we are at the point where we need to start managing player workload by rotating the team, certainly not against the All Blacks at Eden Park

Tupou did not do as well as he could have in the scrum. I can understand starting AAA. It’s not about what Tupou can achieve just that AAA looked like offering more.

FF (Folau Fainga'a) was poor in the set piece, especially (but not only) the line out.

Slipper was everything I wanted, but I’d stick to combinations and start the Brumby front row.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

His running was great.
His kicks were generally good.
His passing was good under 5 metres and the kind of accuracy you'd expect from Nick Phipps at anything beyond 10 metres.
So I wouldn't say "impressive" but he contributed solidly to the plays that mattered.

"I'm better than that you f***** c****".

 

[Zero_Cool]

I think given we had Paul Williams today - nutritiously inconsistent at refereeing the scrum and breakdown (really just plan bad but I'm trying to be nice), I'd say we can't assess Tupou's scrumaging.

I think regarding To'omua he had an average at best game, but I think the real issue is he's just too much of 'a bob each way' but he was 'fine' toady. If we had Hunter play out of his skin or Lolesio had come on and taken the game by the scruff on the neck then he could be tumbling out of the 23. I think Hodge has proven with this game he can probably get 23 tattooed on his back.

I think we could & should go with a 6/2 split I'd bring Hosea on to the bench for 'Dumb Penalty' Simmons (and I defended him!), then Wright and either Valetini or McReight. I know I'm not a massive fan of Valetini so maybe it's just my bias but he didn't look convincing in his fairly short run today, but to be completely fair I'd say given what run he did get he'd be hard done by to drop out of the 23, but I also think he's too slow to be playing the back end of the game. I'd be tempted to start Wright and move Samu to the bench even Wright will give us a more rugged presence around the breakdown than Samu (I'd love to have Hooper coming off the bench, but that's not going to happen!). I also didn't hate moving LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) to 8 and if the Reds weren't oozing back rowers would want to see him do that more for them, but apparently now we are in a world where locks are at a premium and we have 6 test quality back rowers.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

It was unpolished and a bit unscientific in parts, but there can be no doubting the endeavour on the part of the boys today. Their attitude was fantastic and I had hoped that shoring up the defence was high on the agenda. They appeared to do it in spades and aimed up brilliantly. Of special significance was the phyiscality from the pigs. I thought 1 through 8 they all ripped in, especially Slipper, Philip and Wilson. They all presented themselves for work in the loose and carried hard.

Some of the kicking and the line out need some work, but that will come. All the debutants did themselves proud and didn't look out of place at all. The most important thing for me is that there is a base to build on and now the work ahead is to improve on that performance week by week.

 

[Slim 293]

The only reason I'd be taking Lolesio off the bench is to start him...........

It looks like we need a playmaker at 10 or 12 who can straighten the attack FFS.

To be fair, the only player I'd seek to replace after that performance is Fainga'a......... Tupou gave away too many stupid penalties, but I think I'd prefer not to have him on in the clutch stages of the game.

 

[Viking]

The only reason I'd be taking Lolesio off the bench is to start him.....

It looks like we need a playmaker at 10 or 12 who can straighten the attack FFS.

To be fair, the only player I'd seek to replace after that performance is Fainga'a... Tupou gave away too many stupid penalties, but I think I'd prefer not to have him on in the clutch stages of the game.

Yeh Fainga's throwing was poor, but I'm not confident Ulese is any better, actually he has a history of being much worse then Fainga. Fainga at super level is usually solid in that area too. Something definitly needs to be sorted though.

I would say our locks were both impressive. I was thinking they would be a big step down from Arnold and Rodda but I like the look of Philip and LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) even more (well maybe not Arnold I was a big fan of his).

To'omua can straigten the attack. He has done so in the past. He was a rock in defence. Not the best game of his with the boot but I think he deserves another shot.

 

[Adam84]

Uelese fitness looks an issue, he could barely get off the ground at one stage. Yes it had been an intense passage of play, but there were players around him who had played the full 80 and they were getting off the ground and back in the defensive line faster then him. It wasn’t a good look at all.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I think given we had Paul Williams today - nutritiously inconsistent at refereeing the scrum and breakdown (really just plan bad but I'm trying to be nice), I'd say we can't assess Tupou's scrumaging.

I think regarding To'omua he had an average at best game, but I think the real issue is he's just too much of 'a bob each way' but he was 'fine' toady. If we had Hunter play out of his skin or Lolesio had come on and taken the game by the scruff on the neck then he could be tumbling out of the 23. I think Hodge has proven with this game he can probably get 23 tattooed on his back.

I think we could & should go with a 6/2 split I'd bring Hosea on to the bench for 'Dumb Penalty' Simmons (and I defended him!), then Wright and either Valetini or McReight. I know I'm not a massive fan of Valetini so maybe it's just my bias but he didn't look convincing in his fairly short run today, but to be completely fair I'd say given what run he did get he'd be hard done by to drop out of the 23, but I also think he's too slow to be playing the back end of the game. I'd be tempted to start Wright and move Samu to the bench even Wright will give us a more rugged presence around the breakdown than Samu (I'd love to have Hooper coming off the bench, but that's not going to happen!). I also didn't hate moving LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) to 8 and if the Reds weren't oozing back rowers would want to see him do that more for them, but apparently now we are in a world where locks are at a premium and we have 6 test quality back rowers.

Yeh on what I saw I would bring in Wright to 6 - shift Wilson to 8 and drop Samu to the bench. Given issues at breakdown would love Fraser on the bench but as he only covers 7 and not going to drop Hooper what do
you otherwise do.

 

[aeneas]

To be fair this was probably the best moment of the match, post final whistle period aside. I imagine that on TV the game appeared pretty good. But the extended periods of absolutely nothing happening where everyone just stands around killed this as an in person event. (the rain and cold didn't help either).

The Wob's should 100% of won this by 10.

 

[aeneas]

Gotta ask though, where were the drop goals? Each side had ample opportunity to slot them from point blank range but kept throwing it around in the rain.

For the AB's, post Richie they seem to have gone back to having a complete aversion to them. Cost them against the Lions, Boks and now Wallabies. Someone needs a slap until its sorted.

The wind would not have let a drop be more than a 25% chance even from dead in front.

 

[fatprop]

Tupou did not do as well as he could have in the scrum. I can understand starting AAA. It’s not about what Tupou can achieve just that AAA looked like offering more.

FF (Folau Fainga'a) was poor in the set piece, especially (but not only) the line out.

Slipper was everything I wanted, but I’d stick to combinations and start the Brumby front row.

You can't have THPs doing that much work around the field and then expect dominant scrum work

 

[fatprop]

One.

yeah, he is a 10, not enough

 

[Joe Blow]

You can't have THPs doing that much work around the field and then expect dominant scrum work

In the 90s maybe.

 

[Highkicks]

Completely agree that short kicks behind the defensive line / grubbers etc are a good tactic to use at times, for exactly the reason you state - mix it up. However, To'omua executed almost all of them poorly today. Which means they (Wallabies) need to get better at them, not bin them per se.

I don’t agree at all. As an individual you are completely aware before the game that anyone is capable of running, passing or kicking. Any defensive structure takes this into account and has players sweeping behind to cover kicks. If anything the AB’s would be aware he kicks away a lot of ball and can plan around it. He is literally gifting them the ball and there was no upside to this, their defensive line did not start hanging back, in two minds about wether he will do another poor kick or not.

He literally kicked away 3 red hot attacking opportunities in the first 30. One is bad enough but two more, especially after seeing the result of the first one, the fact we had overlaps and a poorly functioning lineout. Extremely poor play. No wonder Korobete had a quiet game, every attacking chance he had was kicked away. I’m not a fan obviously but I thought he actually played well outside of this but it doesn’t come close to counteracting the massive negative impact these kicks had on our game.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yeh on what I saw I would bring in Wright to 6 - shift Wilson to 8 and drop Samu to the bench. Given issues at breakdown would love Fraser on the bench but as he only covers 7 and not going to drop Hooper what do
you otherwise do.

The breakdown issues were on our own ball though. That isn't solved by bringing in another fetcher.

I think it was a combination of our cleanouts not being accurate enough and we also made a number of poor decisions with ball in hand that led to the carrier getting isolated.

The number of lost rucks is somewhat inflated by the fact that we had a strong possession advantage (61% - 39%). This turned into us having 135 rucks in possession and the All Blacks 77. The overall retention stats aren't that far apart. We retained 91% of our rucks and they retained 93%.

 

[TSR]

On a seperate note I thought we played the conditions much better than the ABs, which is pleasing when it seemed for a while we had lost any ability to play intelligent rugby.

 

[Rugby Head]

My real red flag position is hooker. I understand it was windy, but FF (Folau Fainga'a) must be hitting his throws at international level. Thoughts on bringing Tolu Latu back for TRC? If not, I think they give Tom Horton a run.