New Zealand vs Australia Oct 11 2020 Bledisloe Cup

[barbarian]

The ABs of the McCaw and Read eras would have won that game, I have no doubt. This AB team is not the same as those teams. It's an obvious statement in some respects, but it is worth noting I think.

 

[Dan54]

Well been away for weekend, so watched the game on a small screen on Moreton Island, and haven't read all your commenets so apologies if I repeat etc what has been said.
First up great test, that is what test rugby is 2 teams really struggling to win. I thought the Wallabies were unlucky, even if I do say you make your own luck at times, they certainly got stuck in and didn't allow the ABs to play patterns they wanted.
Young Wilson certainly looked as good as I thought he would, and White and JOC (James O'Connor) seemed to control game well. Defence was immense by all the team. Thought the few mistakes they made were a lot to do with being young and overly keed (Thors charging through side of rucks etc, engaging early in scrums) but I personally thought it was first Wallaby team with a decent plan I have seen over last few years.
For ABs, I would rip imto them and no doubt plenty have, though I tend to give Wallabies plenty of credit, and perhaps we will see a bit more settled way of handling rush defence Wallabies used next week. I thought for anyone who wants to tell me that Sam Cane is not the best 7, he was the best 7 on field on Saturday and almost best forward on park. Mounga certainly struggled to control game (step up all you BB rubbishers) it a bit harder at international level . Probably one who disappointed me most in backline was Ioane, not just for playing pretty boy from Auckland and forcing ball properly, but more for how far out of position he was that allowed Korbite's try, U20's level mistake for a 13, would certainly perfer to see him benched next week. Thought generally the rest of backline were ok without being outstanding, but once again, let's give credit to a very good Wallaby effort, will perhaps watch again as I can see more then?

 

[rodha]

In reviewing the test, however, it's also impossible to overlook several clear late hits that Richie Mo'unga copped from Wallabies defenders, all of which went unpunished.

"Richie has a bruised shoulder after being smacked about four times after he passed it. Apart from that, pretty good," All Blacks coach Ian Foster said of the state of his squad the morning after their 16-all draw.

Pressed on whether those incidents should have been reviewed by match officials, Foster said: "He's just got a sore shoulder".

Rookie Wallabies blindside Harry Wilson, in particular, was fortunate not to be penalised, at the least, for his late hit that left Mo'unga prone on the pitch in the first half.

"I passed the ball and next thing my stomach was in my chest," Mo'unga said. "I was winded. He got me really good."

On another occasion, after Mo'unga gave the pass for Ioane's botched try just before half time, Filipo Daugunu came off his wing and hit the Crusaders playmaker with no arms.

All first five-eighths are accustomed to being targeted and pressured but it would not surprise to see officials for the second Bledisloe at Eden Park this week scrutinise the timing of tackles.

"That's part of it. It happens a lot, and it's up to the refs to decide if they want to have a look or anything," Mo'unga, clearly reluctant to complain, added.

"It's out of my control. You just have to pass and try get out of the way before you see one coming."

But "Up The Guts" assured me that Mo'unga was only hit once off the ball? Huh..

 

[Dan54]

Good to see. I don't think there was anything gained when the two teams seemed to genuinely hate each other off the field.

I don't think the 2 teams have ever hated or even appeared to hate each other off field, these boys from both teams are generally bloody good rugby players who respect each other off the field and almost always see them chatting. I do know one or 2 Wallaby coaches have made a point of not allowing players to vist AB's dressing room after games, but I pretty sure that the players have always been invited, and do enjoy a catch up wherever anyway.
Always remember these young men are rugby players, not internet trolls.

 

[Derpus]

Well been away for weekend, so watched the game on a small screen on Moreton Island, and haven't read all your commenets so apologies if I repeat etc what has been said.
First up great test, that is what test rugby is 2 teams really struggling to win. I thought the Wallabies were unlucky, even if I do say you make your own luck at times, they certainly got stuck in and didn't allow the ABs to play patterns they wanted.
Young Wilson certainly looked as good as I thought he would, and White and JOC (James O'Connor) seemed to control game well. Defence was immense by all the team. Thought the few mistakes they made were a lot to do with being young and overly keed (Thors charging through side of rucks etc, engaging early in scrums) but I personally thought it was first Wallaby team with a decent plan I have seen over last few years.
For ABs, I would rip imto them and no doubt plenty have, though I tend to give Wallabies plenty of credit, and perhaps we will see a bit more settled way of handling rush defence Wallabies used next week. I thought for anyone who wants to tell me that Sam Cane is not the best 7, he was the best 7 on field on Saturday and almost best forward on park. Mounga certainly struggled to control game (step up all you BB rubbishers) it a bit harder at international level . Probably one who disappointed me most in backline was Ioane, not just for playing pretty boy from Auckland and forcing ball properly, but more for how far out of position he was that allowed Korbite's try, U20's level mistake for a 13, would certainly perfer to see him benched next week. Thought generally the rest of backline were ok without being outstanding, but once again, let's give credit to a very good Wallaby effort, will perhaps watch again as I can see more then?

Yeah - hard to see Goodhue make that mistake if he's playing in position, given how good his defensive reads are.

 

[KiwiM]

Probably one who disappointed me most in backline was Ioane, not just for playing pretty boy from Auckland and forcing ball properly, but more for how far out of position he was that allowed Korbite's try, U20's level mistake for a 13, would certainly perfer to see him benched next week. Thought generally the rest of backline were ok without being outstanding, but once again, let's give credit to a very good Wallaby effort, will perhaps watch again as I can see more then?

The problem with ditching Ioane (and in a vacuum I agree I'd replace him - he had his shot at 13 and he fluffed it) is that there's a lack of strike threats in that backline. If you go with a midfield of ALB and Goodhue you need some punch on the wings - the starting wings failed hard - Jordie was wasted on the wing and should be fullback and Bridge lives a charmed life he simply doesn't offer nearly enough - to me I'd be looking at a back 3 of Reece, Clarke and Jordie.

 

[Dan54]

The problem with ditching Ioane (and in a vacuum I agree I'd replace him - he had his shot at 13 and he fluffed it) is that there's a lack of strike threats in that backline. If you go with a midfield of ALB and Goodhue you need some punch on the wings - the starting wings failed hard - Jordie was wasted on the wing and should be fullback and Bridge lives a charmed life he simply doesn't offer nearly enough - to me I'd be looking at a back 3 of Reece, Clarke and Jordie.

Agree mate, changing to ALB and Goodhue mean strike power has to be wider. I like your suggestion of jodie at 15 and to strike wingers (though I not convinced Bridge doesn't add a bit) , thugh if I saw Clarke ,Reece (or Jordan etc) with JB ,I wouldn't be disappointed, and would still like Ioane on bench, as I still think he will be a pretty good 13 and perhaps we need to let him step up a level in parts?

 

[Up the Guts]

But "Up The Guts" assured me that Mo'unga was only hit once off the ball? Huh..

I didn’t say anything about Mo’unga. That was Blue, a neutral.

In any case, Foster, as a good coach should, is exaggerating when he says “4 times” to get more referee scrutiny in the next match.

 

[Tahtrajic]

Te ref Williams was unsighted, but the AR should have called that.
And who was the AR - Gardner if I'm not mistaken.

I think it was Ben Skeen. Not sure how to spell it. On that side of the field

 

[LMU]

I don’t agree at all. As an individual you are completely aware before the game that anyone is capable of running, passing or kicking. Any defensive structure takes this into account and has players sweeping behind to cover kicks. If anything the AB’s would be aware he kicks away a lot of ball and can plan around it. He is literally gifting them the ball and there was no upside to this, their defensive line did not start hanging back, in two minds about wether he will do another poor kick or not.

He literally kicked away 3 red hot attacking opportunities in the first 30. One is bad enough but two more, especially after seeing the result of the first one, the fact we had overlaps and a poorly functioning lineout. Extremely poor play. No wonder Korobete had a quiet game, every attacking chance he had was kicked away. I’m not a fan obviously but I thought he actually played well outside of this but it doesn’t come close to counteracting the massive negative impact these kicks had on our game.

I just don’t get the love for To'omua, he is a better 10 than 12 but he had a poor Super Rugby season which continued yesterday. His defence is very good but his attack is terrible, play breaks down with him every time. Poor kicking options and goes himself all the time.
I watched the Channel 10 broadcast and Matt Burke called him out on every occasion, “I would have liked that to go thru the hands” etc etc etc. Refreshingly honest (and gently handled) compared to Kafer’s constant To'omua man love.

 

[Dctarget]

I just don’t get the love for To'omua, he is a better 10 than 12 but he had a poor Super Rugby season which continued yesterday. His defence is very good but his attack is terrible, play breaks down with him every time. Poor kicking options and goes himself all the time.
I watched the Channel 10 broadcast and Matt Burke called him out on every occasion, “I would have liked that to go thru the hands” etc etc etc. Refreshingly honest (and gently handled) compared to Kafer’s constant To'omua man love.

He completely carried the Rebels this season for multiple games.

 

[LMU]

He completely carried the Rebels this season for multiple games.

Yeah nah, totally disagree. watched him lose 2 games single handed with poor game management. Cannot get a backline to fire.

 

[KiwiM]

I think it was Ben Skeen. Not sure how to spell it. On that side of the field

Nope - Angus Gardner was on the near side in the second half - he was on the far side in the first half (missed Rieko's foot in touch).

Ben O'Keeffe was the other touch judge - not to be confused with Ben Skeen (awful TMO from RWC).

 

[TSR]

I didn’t say anything about Mo’unga. That was Blue, a neutral.

In any case, Foster, as a good coach should, is exaggerating when he says “4 times” to get more referee scrutiny in the next match.

Seeing Foster complain about that after the game is one of the best things to come out of this game IMO.

Pretty sure we wouldn’t have heard boo about it in public from either Hansen or Henry. They would likely have talked to the refs about it behind closed doors and it would’ve come up in team review no doubt, but publicly wouldn’t have said a thing (well - possibly some sort of dry, sarcastic backhanded compliment - but I doubt they would have complained straight after the game at the presser).

 

[Penguin]

But "Up The Guts" assured me that Mo'unga was only hit once off the ball? Huh..

Boo hoo

 

[Up the Guts]

Seeing Foster complain about that after the game is one of the best things to come out of this game IMO.

Pretty sure we wouldn’t have heard boo about it in public from either Hansen or Henry. They would likely have talked to the refs about it behind closed doors and it would’ve come up in team review no doubt, but publicly wouldn’t have said a thing (well - possibly some sort of dry, sarcastic backhanded compliment - but I doubt they would have complained straight after the game at the presser).

Quite Cheika like, there's a time and place for trying to publicly influence the officiating (e.g. the job we did on Marler in the 2015 RWC) but you need runs on the board first or it sounds like whinging.

 

[rodha]

Boo hoo

Woah, woah.. let's not trivialize player welfare.

 

[Penguin]

let's not trivialize player welfare.

The hypocrisy is so chunky you could carve it.

You really are a poor man's troll. Did you do your apprenticeship in the Planet Rugby forums?

 

[BDA]

Just rewatched the game.

Having had another look at the grubber kick that To'omua made on the all blacks 10 metre line, i actually think the option wasnt that bad. He could clearly see koribete running at the line with speed and thought he might beat mckenzie to the ball. As it turns out koribete runs on the inside of mckenzie and the kick rolls to the outside making it easy for mckenzie to get their first. The execution wasnt great. If the kick was better it could have easily resulted in a try. I accept it's fairly low percentage play, and ideally you'd prefer to patiently pick and drive your way over the line, but tries arent always going to be that easy to come by against the all blacks. Sometime you have to get a bit creative.

For me the vision was fine, it was just poor execution. I remember Dan carter was a player who used the grubber kick in the opposition 20 to great effect. From memory he scored a try off one in the 2011 super rugby finals. To simply say its a bad option is a bit simplistic

 

[Braveheart81]

I accept it's fairly low percentage play

To simply say its a bad option is a bit simplistic

This to me is the crucial thing we're weighing up with these kicks.

Does the situation call for a low percentage play? If not, then it's a bad option.

In my opinion this was a bad option because we hadn't had the opportunity to try much in that attacking raid nor previous ones due to kicking the ball away so we hadn't tested the All Blacks defence to any great degree.

The grubber rolls into the in goal and after we don't score, all pressure is released with the 22 drop out.

Maybe part of it is we need to adjust to the fact we now have two strike wingers who can beat players and have a lot of pace. I want to see Daugunu and Koroibete with ball in hand because both showed that they take a lot of stopping one on one and don't need a lot of space to score in the corner.

I hope we largely put them away this week.