New Zealand vs Australia - Bledisloe 2, 24th August 2013

[Beefcake]

Didn't say he did.
I said he did not help. An Australian expression Of typical sarcastic understatement.
Who let the trolls out?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Assuming Im not Australian? whose trolling?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Assuming Im not Australian? whose trolling?

No assumption about it - you're out there letting people know you're not an Australian.

 

[Nathan's]

Plans are already in place for that. Hansen has an apprentice type program going for hookers, bringing young hookers into the AB's camp before tests. I think Liam Coltman was the first. That will help ease the loss of Hore and Mealamu.

Carter, dare I say it, won't be a loss we won't recover from. Cruden/Barrett/Taylor/Slade will help us thru.

Ben Smith may be having a run at Centre in the November tours when Conrad Smith is taking a break

Cane/Todd/braid/Latimer, even John Hardie may be in picture for Sir Richie. Though maybe the way Luatua is going he may be there!

I think Nonu may well be on the way out. A niggly ankle may finish him off (or the excuse they need).

As Hansen said earlier this year. We have a couple rounds of Super rugby, EOYT and Rugby championship to go before the next RWC. I think there is a pretty solid plan in place to blood new players. I am sure the EOYT tour will see a lot of new faces.

I understand Hansen has a program in place for you, but to say you'll be fine is not terribly realistic. The All-Blacks are strong because they have kept the same core for years. Read, McCaw, Carter, Nonu, C. Smith, Dagg. This is what the Wallabies lack.

Carter will be a huge loss, to say otherwise is ridiculous. Best number 10 for years, across all forms and all countries. Unbelievable kicking success rate etc.. Yes Cruden is good, but from an Australian perspective will never be as good as Carter.

Ben Smith will need to work on his defence, imo he should stay on the wing, exploit's teams.

Same as Carter, McCaw is a massive loss. Todd should slot into 7.

C.Smith and Nonu has been one of your best and most important aspects. A centre combination that works and plays multiple tests together. SBW may not even come back to union, Crotty I suppose will slot in, maybe Taylor as well? Huge experience loss. Ranger won't be available as he's playing in France?

In a few years time, I hope the Australian vs All-Blacks games will be as good and as tight as they once were.

 

[Braveheart81]

If the Wallabies are going to continue to play a game where the half back box kicks, we should pick White ahead of Genia.

Genia has never been strong in this area and with his form down at the moment, he is terrible at it.

At this stage I certainly don't think it would be a bad thing to put Genia on the bench for a game and put the onus back on him to show why he's our best halfback when he gets an opportunity in the last 20 or 30 minutes.

 

[boyo]

Hold on tiger. We are missing somebody to say there weren't enough Reds.

And too many Waratahs.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

I understand Hansen has a program in place for you, but to say you'll be fine is not terribly realistic. The All-Blacks are strong because they have kept the same core for years. Read, McCaw, Carter, Nonu, C. Smith, Dagg. This is what the Wallabies lack.

Carter will be a huge loss, to say otherwise is ridiculous. Best number 10 for years, across all forms and all countries. Unbelievable kicking success rate etc.. Yes Cruden is good, but from an Australian perspective will never be as good as Carter.

Ben Smith will need to work on his defence, imo he should stay on the wing, exploit's teams.

Same as Carter, McCaw is a massive loss. Todd should slot into 7.

C.Smith and Nonu has been one of your best and most important aspects. A centre combination that works and plays multiple tests together. SBW may not even come back to union, Crotty I suppose will slot in, maybe Taylor as well? Huge experience loss. Ranger won't be available as he's playing in France?

In a few years time, I hope the Australian vs All-Blacks games will be as good and as tight as they once were.

Almost sounds a bit defeatist there Nathans - your hoping the games will be good and tight as we'll come back to the pack, as opposed to you guys improving? you guys are better than that, Aussie have a good core, with some serious talent, as always. Horwill, Genia, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), JOC (James O'Connor), Moore, Pocock have been there a few years now.

Our biggest problems are Hooker/Centre. There is nobody ready to replace Hore & Mealamu at this stage - Marshall, Motu'u and a coupe of others are buildin, but are nowhere near test standard. Centre - I still expect Ben Smith to be there, but defence and structure will need a slight tidy up. Kahui was always the longer term option but he seems perma-fucked now.

McCaw will be a loss, definitely, but Read is no slouch and Luatua has had quite the start to his test career, so backrow balance should continue fine. I'm not worried about Carter the player, but I'm concerned about Carter the goal kicker. Cruden is a great player, but he's not Carter when aiming for the sticks. I wish we had a Lealii'fano type waiting in the wings.

 

[boyo]

Agree Folau should be the Fullback, he can kick and as a Leaguie he knows how to tackle well and is the best in the team under the high ball. I am worried if the Wallabies have the best Coach in McKenzie.

The myth of the mungoball tackle - one on one: no, two on one (upper body): yes they can bring the player to the ground.
A mungoballer rarely tackles around the legs.

 

[DaveyPocock #legend]

Cruden is a great player, but he's not Carter when aiming for the sticks. I wish we had a Lealii'fano type waiting in the wings.[/quote]

I dont think Lealii'fano is a the complete package in terms of goal kicking, his defense and attack are simply outstanding. He will be a long serving member of the Australian team

 

[Rob42]

The myth of the mungoball tackle - one on one: no, two on one (upper body): yes they can bring the player to the ground.
A mungoballer rarely tackles around the legs.

In general - agree. But Folau's positioning and tackling from fullback for the Tahs was very solid, especially once he had a few games under his belt.

 

[Richo]

Folau is a big unit who hits hard and wraps up the ball. He's made some phenomenal try-savers because he gives the attacking player limited opportunities to ground or offload the ball. He did it to Savea on Saturday and North in the first BIL test.

My only worry with him at fullback is whether he'll have the confidence to kick quickly when it's required. He always seems a bit reluctant.

 

[Beefcake]

No assumption about it - you're out there letting people know you're not an Australian.

oohhh getting precious are we?... typifies your argument... weak and soft just like the current crop of wobs... And for that matter like McKenzie... How undignified is it for the national coach to portion blame on the ref for losing the game... p.s The only version of Australian I'd ascribe to you, is on the cover of a book called "Sore loser"...lol

 

[Inside Shoulder]

What argument is that?
must ignore trolls - must be strong - must remove hands from ball when ruck formed

 

[Richo]

Is it just me, or do we see a much larger influx of trolls after each game now?

 

[tekay]

oohhh getting precious are we?. typifies your argument. weak and soft just like the current crop of wobs. And for that matter like McKenzie. How undignified is it for the national coach to portion blame on the ref for losing the game. p.s The only version of Australian I'd ascribe to you, is on the cover of a book called "Sore loser".lol

When the Refereeing is as clearly substandard as that was, I'd expect nothing less than the National Coach to say something about it.

Unlike other matches, there was no definite AB upperhand in that last match only poor Ref decisions the took away what was for the most part clear Wallaby momentum.

Not going up stairs to check on what turned out to be a clear try is unforgivable for a Ref at Test level. That shit changes games when then is very little separating both teams - Link was fully right to call it out.

Nothing to do with sour grapes – everything to do with fair play. Eh.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Unlike other matches, there was no definite AB upperhand in that last match only poor Ref decisions the took away what was for the most part clear Wallaby momentum.

Really? Ok... I thought we won the collisions, linebreaks, penalties kicked, tries scored, scrums and ultimately the match.

Not going up stairs to check on what turned out to be a clear try is unforgivable for a Ref at Test level. That shit changes games when then is very little separating both teams - Link was fully right to call it out.

Taking the piss surely - a clear try? I don't know what Peyper called on, but he was perfectly positioned to make the call & and was so sure he didn't require assistance from anywhere. I'm not sure what it was - perhaps double movement (from what I've seen a very strong case for), or could just clearly see he didn't get it on the line (again, the tv review isn't exactly conclusive).

As I said earlier on the thread, I don't blame you guys for having a whinge in this match, as we certainly got the rub of the green. Just throwing in a little bit of balance.

EDIT: Just watched the reply on youtube - knock on is definitely an option too.

 

[Richo]

Taking the piss surely - a clear try? I don't know what Peyper called on, but he was perfectly positioned to make the call & and was so sure he didn't require assistance from anywhere. I'm not sure what it was - perhaps double movement (from what I've seen a very strong case for), or could just clearly see he didn't get it on the line (again, the tv review isn't exactly conclusive).

If only there was a "double movement" law in rugby. Moore is tackled short of the try line and immediately reaches forward to place the ball. This is not a double movement and perfectly allowable. Whether he placed the ball or dropped it is a different story. It's atrocious that Peyper did not send it to review.

[insert appropriate disclaimers about referee not deciding the match here]

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

If only there was a "double movement" law in rugby. Moore is tackled short of the try line and immediately reaches forward to place the ball. This is not a double movement and perfectly allowable. Whether he placed the ball or dropped it is a different story. It's atrocious that Peyper did not send it to review.

[insert appropriate disclaimers about referee not deciding the match here]

Yeah, I just looked at it again - by double movement I mean the whole non release thing. You can't argue on his first place, he's short... so what is the rule after that? Does he get another go?

As said in my original post - the referee was better positioned than anybody, so there is nothing wrong with him making the call.

 

[Richo]

Yeah, I just looked at it again - by double movement I mean the whole non release thing. You can't argue on his first place, he's short. so what is the rule after that? Does he get another go?

As said in my original post - the referee was better positioned than anybody, so there is nothing wrong with him making the call.

As long as he immediately reaches forward after being tackled, it's fine. I don't have time to dig up the law, but it's different from league. The only issue would be if Moore was considered to have come to a complete stop and then played the ball. Peyper never says "knock on" or "played from the ground" or anything. I don't think he even realised how close Moore got to the try line.

 

[Dam0]

I have an alternate theory on the Moore decision.

If you take a look at Peyper when he gives that decision, he is barely looking at he grounding and appears disinterested in it. I suspect that he went back to the PK because he got Gold 3 for sealing off at the prior breakdown. He was a bit slow in making this decision and should have communicated better, but I reckon all this stuff about "double movement" (sic), dropping the ball, holding on etc is beside the point.

Watch the replay again and look at where Peyper is and what he is doing. Then come back here and tell me I'm mad.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I have an alternate theory on the Moore decision.

If you take a look at Peyper when he gives that decision, he is barely looking at he grounding and appears disinterested in it. I suspect that he went back to the PK because he got Gold 3 for sealing off at the prior breakdown. He was a bit slow in making this decision and should have communicated better, but I reckon all this stuff about "double movement" (sic), dropping the ball, holding on etc is beside the point.

Watch the replay again and look at where Peyper is and what he is doing. Then come back here and tell me I'm mad.

I'm sure if we go through it we can find reasons that might explain the abject failure to adjudicate and communicate. That's why he's wired up: so that the game is not brought into disrepute by speculation that he just f*cked up.
There is no "complete stop" law in union: once tackled he is entitled to play the ball in any direction. That's what he did - what happened as a result is an unexplained mystery by virtue of Peyper's unsuitability for the big time.