New Zealand v Australia - Auckland - 23 August 2014

[emuarse]

The Boks v Argentina game had even worse conditions to ours so their fly halves were pretty much out of the equation..therefore it was out of KB (Kurtley Beale) and Cruden. Can you categorically say that Beale was outplayed by Cruden? I don't think so..

and if you can it's only your opinion versus Cully's..and mine..

KOB must be related to Cully

 

[Viking]

Foley was only average against France who were far inferior opposition. Beale won't get dropped for that performance because it wasn't a bad one. In difficult conditions he did alright. This wasn't made any easier by the halfback inside him having a fairly poor game.

To'omua wasn't really any better outside Beale. He defended strongly but didn't really create anything in attack and his kicking game wasn't particularly good. He made a similar number of errors to Beale.

All the players in key positions on both sides made errors because they were tough conditions to play in.

I feel like 80% of the criticism directed at Beale is because people don't really like him. It's very similar to the reactions to Cooper over a long period of time. If they don't have an absolute blinder people claim they were terrible and should be dropped.

Disagree about To'omua. He often straightened the attack and took it to the line and made some half-breaks. Exactly what we needed and expected of him.

What we needed from Beale and what was expected of him was a little spark. Is this an unfair expectation? No. Its is simply a different expectation from Foley and/or To'omua given their respective skill-sets. It is why Beale was chosen over Foley for that "spark". He did not deliver even the slightest bit of spark.

So if a player doesn't deliver what you put him in the team for then you might as well pick some-one else.

 

[Braveheart81]

Let's agree to disagree Seb.

You've made it pretty clear that unless Beale produces a MOTM performance you're going to bag him.

 

[Viking]

Let's agree to disagree Seb.

You've made it pretty clear that unless Beale produces a MOTM performance you're going to bag him.

Don't get me wrong Braveheart I don't hate the guy I just don't think he has produced anything on the Test arena in the last 2-3 years, until he does I will remain critical.

 

[A mutterer]

i still think beale looks better outside of foley, or coming on for the final quarter and i hope (but doubt link will actually do it) that beale is rotated to the pine.

on the plus side, the efforts of the boys up front was well above what i expected so we should be aiming for a similar effort on the weekend (minus cowan).

a direct attacking 10 which opens up second and third touch opportunities, faster delivery from the base of the ruck and some better decision making and we can take it to the darkness.

also i'd love to see folau be told to have a crack and have someone drop back to cover so he can pin back his ears. i've noticed over the past 2 months that folau has been reining himself in a bit too much.

 

[Braveheart81]

You're certainly not alone. Beale has copped a lot of flack from forum members and particularly on the front page. Interestingly all the journalists have rated his performance as ok. All the player ratings I've seen have given him either the same or a higher rating than To'omua.

It seems obvious to me that out of our players, White clearly had the worst game yet somehow the attention is all on Beale. He kicked poorly and made too many bad passes. Given the conditions, it's not surprising his passing was off but it doesn't change the fact that it was.

 

[Viking]

White's decision making was horrible. Phipps wasn't much better when he came on but I at least think he deserve's a chance. His sniping runs would come in handy and the All Blacks are all over White's box kicks.

 

[TahDan]

You're certainly not alone. Beale has copped a lot of flack from forum members and particularly on the front page. Interestingly all the journalists have rated his performance as ok. All the player ratings I've seen have given him either the same or a higher rating than To'omua.

It seems obvious to me that out of our players, White clearly had the worst game yet somehow the attention is all on Beale. He kicked poorly and made too many bad passes. Given the conditions, it's not surprising his passing was off but it doesn't change the fact that it was.

Classic case of confirmation bias here I reckon.

People were upset with Beale's selection, so anything but a masterclass in which he set-up and scored the match winning try was going to draw criticism.

It seems a lot of people just went into the game focused purely on how Beale was playing so completely overlooked mistakes by White and To'omua, whilst massively amplifying anything Beale did to confirm their anger at his selection.

 

[cyclopath]

KOB must be related to Cully

I don't know, I watched the SA v Arg Test, and there was not a lot of great fly-half play to be seen, unless you like up-and-unders. Out of Cruden and Beale, I couldn't say one was clearly better.

 

[Viking]

To be fair To'omua's role in the team is much different to Beales. To'omua straightens the attack and is a rock on defence. He made mistakes but at least he did his job well. Or at worst we saw glimpses of him doing his job.

Beale's job was to create something. He did not do this at all.

 

[TahDan]

To be fair To'omua's role in the team is much different to Beales. To'omua straightens the attack and is a rock on defence. He made mistakes but at least he did his job well. Or at worst we saw glimpses of him doing his job.

Beale's job was to create something. He did not do this at all.

To be fair? It looks like you're only being fair to To'omua mate...

I didn't think he did much straightening, and some of his passes were pretty wayward. Beale played ok - sure he didn't set up a match winning try like in the Super Rugby final, but it was poor conditions and he was playing the fucking All Blacks.

 

[Braveheart81]

Was To'omua's kicking game in general particularly good? Not really.

Is he there at 12 as the second playmaker? Yes.

Both matches on the weekend were played in atrocious conditions. Did any of the 10s create anything particularly great? Not really.

You seem to suggest that Beale's job is to be amazing but To'omua's is merely to make his tackles and run the ball into the defence a few times.

Are the Australian and New Zealand journalists taking the piss by seemingly being unanimous in their opinion that Beale did a decent job given the conditions?

 

[Viking]

To be fair? It looks like you're only being fair to To'omua mate.

I didn't think he did much straightening, and some of his passes were pretty wayward. Beale played ok - sure he didn't set up a match winning try like in the Super Rugby final, but it was poor conditions and he was playing the fucking All Blacks.

Beale's job was to create something. anything. That is why is was picked over Foley. He did not even show a glimpse of being threatening in any aspect of game. No running threat, No passing threat.

If you wanted a player to just do the basics right you might as pick Foley, a player who also has less weaknesses then Beale.

I understand you think this is unfair but I disagree. If you a pick a player for his goal-kicking and he has an average game but misses every kick - well you might as pick a player who offers something different around the park. This is the same for Beale. If he's not going to create anything then we might as well put Foley in.

 

[ACT Crusader]

I agree that Slipper is very unlucky.

Overall it looks pretty reasonable though. The selection of more Wallabies than All Blacks reflects the fact that we played most of the rugby in that game.

I never get why there is so much emphasis on calling who played the so-called "most rugby" in the post game wash up. Even some AB supporters think the ABs played the "most rugby". It means very little in my view.

It was a drawn test match with the scores close throughout. There were opportunities for both teams to win the test match (eg Cane knock on metres out on the pick n go; Wallabies middle of the park scrum with minutes remaining but got isolated therafter), but both sides were simply not good enough to win regardless of what went on before those opportunities.

There were very good moments for both sides in attack and defence, which is rugby. There were a hell of a lot of poor moments also, which is part of rugby as well.

As for Beale, I also thought he stood way too deep for what the Wallaby game plan was attempting to achieve. You want to keep ball in hand, you're 1st receivers need to be flat, not parked so far beyond the gain line.

Pfity - Deans was the master of the flat attack line when he coached the ABs and Saders, unfortunately that all changed when he went for Giteau at 10....

 

[Viking]

You seem to suggest that Beale's job is to be amazing but To'omua's is merely to make his tackles and run the ball into the defence a few times.

They play different roles in the back-line. Beale is the primary play-maker. To'omua the secondary. So to a large extent that sentence is correct.
Although you phrased it as such that To'omua's primary role of tackling and running the ball into the defence is less important.

 

[Braveheart81]

Beale kicked 4 from 5 and we drew against the best side in the world which stopped them reaching a record 18 consecutive victories.

Hopefully he gets a crack in better conditions in Auckland.

If White is still the starting halfback, hopefully he has a much better game. Our backline will do better with better service.

Beale was picked to do the exact same job as Foley was picked to do in the French tests. If you listen to numerous interviews with McKenzie or also To'omua on last week's RugbyHQ, they're trying to play the same structures with whoever is in the various positions. Beale was given a crack because McKenzie thought his form was better than Foley's in the back end of the season and he deserved a chance. Likewise, with Foley moving to the bench, his role was to come on and finish the game and lift the tempo as a fresh player in the 10 role.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Seb has somewhat of a point. But you're right. It's a bit harsh on Beale.

The point is To'omua is a second playmaker but he is also picked due to his solid defence and strength in contact. If he doesn't offer much as a playmaker, he is still crashing it up well and defending strongly. Just doing the basics.

Beale, if he doesn't offer much in attack, is a defensive liability who is weak in contact (But - How many creative flyhalfs are great defenders? Beale is not Robinson Crusoe). Despite that he is picked because he has the ability to offer so much in attack. He didn't really on Saturday night. A big factor in that is the conditions though, which made it difficult for Beale to offer his biggest strengths.

If anything it was a coaching error, to select a player who may not offer much in poor weather conditions. BUT, if Link didn't think a safer option was good enough for us to win then what's the point of picking a safer option instead?

 

[BDA]

It was a difficult weekend for all 4 starting flyhalves. I find it hard to believe that Kurtley could have been the best 10 on offer (as Cully suggests) but fuck there's not much in it. Cruden made less mistake and kicked well but he also didn't play with the ball. Kurtley was tasked with a 'ball in hand' game plan in a game where, as McCaw said afterwards "it was almost easier not having the ball".

He probably did enough to retain his spot. Both Foley and Kurtley have now had a shot at the starting spot , and both have looked better coming off the bench late in the game. Foley was solid if not great in the French series, but he had perfect conditions. Kurtley had shocking conditions and a better side to deal with. I think he should get another chance to show us what he's got on Saturday, hopefully in conditions more suited to him.

I've never been a big supporter of Kurtley at 10, but there is not enough reason for us to drop him based on recent events.

 

[BDA]

I really hope Hansen goes with Fekitoa at 12. I reckon To'omua would have him under all sorts of pressure

 

[qwerty51]

Beale was easily the best of the 4 10s over the weekend. Pollard in the same conditions made a thousand errors (interesting if they persist with him).