KOB1987
John Eales (66)
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New Zealand v Australia - Auckland - 23 August 2014
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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T
Train Without a Station
Guest
BH I just wanted to use Qwerty's quote to be honest.
waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
Anyone got any screen grabs or links to support or refute this from Craig Dowd over on ESPNScrum?
"There was one scrum in particular that got my red flag up, as there was illegal binding from the Australians. They appeared to be employing a system that gave the tight-head more freedom. And the only way that can happen is if the tight-head has both arms free and is pushing upwards using his unseen arm. It is an incredibly strong movement. But it is really dangerous, and for coaches at international level to say they need to educate referees while at the same time seemingly telling their players to break the law and do what is dangerous - binding with tremendous pressure coming through the tight-head with two arms pushing up - is a concern.
"The tactic was exposed when the hooker went down on Saturday because you could see the tight-head and hooker weren't attached to each other; it allowed the Australian scrum to perform well, but it was illegal."
Read more at http://www.espnscrum.com/the-rugby-championship-2014/rugby/story/238149.html#UuBkBQHzfQmdtuEA.99
Alternatively, what do the scrum aficionados out there think?
"There was one scrum in particular that got my red flag up, as there was illegal binding from the Australians. They appeared to be employing a system that gave the tight-head more freedom. And the only way that can happen is if the tight-head has both arms free and is pushing upwards using his unseen arm. It is an incredibly strong movement. But it is really dangerous, and for coaches at international level to say they need to educate referees while at the same time seemingly telling their players to break the law and do what is dangerous - binding with tremendous pressure coming through the tight-head with two arms pushing up - is a concern.
"The tactic was exposed when the hooker went down on Saturday because you could see the tight-head and hooker weren't attached to each other; it allowed the Australian scrum to perform well, but it was illegal."
Read more at http://www.espnscrum.com/the-rugby-championship-2014/rugby/story/238149.html#UuBkBQHzfQmdtuEA.99
Alternatively, what do the scrum aficionados out there think?
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
I can't imagine us deliberating scrimmaging illegal. We already get penalised enough when we try to do it legally.
Redsman
Allen Oxlade (6)
"I know why we didn't perform at the weekend," Hansen said. "There were certain areas of our game we were very poor at, and there was another reason which we won't go into here, but that's been dealt with as well.
"We've spoken to the referee about the scrummaging. He put his hand up, said he got the free-kicks wrong. But we can't control [the referee], we've had the discussion we needed to have and moved on. It's about us playing our game and playing it better than we played it last week."
After declaring he wouldn't get into the refereeing issues, Hansen was asked what Peyper had conceded he got wrong.
"Where do you want me to start?" he barked. "The free-kick he felt was wrong and he was not sure why he called pre-engage. The first yellow card was wrong - the ball was out.
"It was a good conversation, I respect the man for his honesty ... he's no different than players -- some days you have a bad day. He had a bad day at the office and put his hand up.
"But I've got to emphasise, it wasn't just his problem. We had a hell of a bad day ourselves so we'll forget about him and concentrate on what we can do."
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Anyone else see this as Hansen trying to influence Poite pre-game to penalise aussie scrum?
haha if he's this sore when they draw... what will he be like when they lose???
"We've spoken to the referee about the scrummaging. He put his hand up, said he got the free-kicks wrong. But we can't control [the referee], we've had the discussion we needed to have and moved on. It's about us playing our game and playing it better than we played it last week."
After declaring he wouldn't get into the refereeing issues, Hansen was asked what Peyper had conceded he got wrong.
"Where do you want me to start?" he barked. "The free-kick he felt was wrong and he was not sure why he called pre-engage. The first yellow card was wrong - the ball was out.
"It was a good conversation, I respect the man for his honesty ... he's no different than players -- some days you have a bad day. He had a bad day at the office and put his hand up.
"But I've got to emphasise, it wasn't just his problem. We had a hell of a bad day ourselves so we'll forget about him and concentrate on what we can do."
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Anyone else see this as Hansen trying to influence Poite pre-game to penalise aussie scrum?
haha if he's this sore when they draw... what will he be like when they lose???
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Ah those dark arts - secret is not getting caught
BDA
Jim Lenehan (48)
Those comments are just laughable. The All Blacks put very little pressure on our scrum on Saturday. Hansen will do what every Test Coach (whose team is about to face Australia) has done since the beginning of time - suggest that the Aussie scrum is weak and that if it looks like we are gaining parity or dominating in the scrums it means we are cheating. It often works a treat.
Whilst I doubt Link is petty enough to become involved in this type of behaviour, now might be a good time to remind the ref that the Kiwis have been infringing at an alarming rate this season, and if the wallabies aren't able to get lightening quick ball at the breakdown it means NZ are cheating
Whilst I doubt Link is petty enough to become involved in this type of behaviour, now might be a good time to remind the ref that the Kiwis have been infringing at an alarming rate this season, and if the wallabies aren't able to get lightening quick ball at the breakdown it means NZ are cheating
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
ACT Crusader
Jim Lenehan (48)
haha if he's this sore when they draw. what will he be like when they lose???
Well there's not alot out there to go by, but here is an example...
ACT Crusader
Jim Lenehan (48)
Those comments are just laughable. The All Blacks put very little pressure on our scrum on Saturday. Hansen will do what every Test Coach (whose team is about to face Australia) has done since the beginning of time - suggest that the Aussie scrum is weak and that if it looks like we are gaining parity or dominating in the scrums it means we are cheating. It often works a treat.
Whilst I doubt Link is petty enough to become involved in this type of behaviour, now might be a good time to remind the ref that the Kiwis have been infringing at an alarming rate this season, and if the wallabies aren't able to get lightening quick ball at the breakdown it means NZ are cheating
BDA how would you explain that scrum where the Charles was lying on his gut with a mouthful of dirt and Kepu was inconspicuously still upright?
And I do reccall a letter to the IRB that McKenzie made public following after the England loss last year where he said something to the effect that certain referee decisions "defy logic". Each coach has their way of doing the "petty stuff"
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
That's an backhanded comment if I've ever seen one.
Rugby Is My Life
Herbert Moran (7)
I hope our guys head over to NZ ready to just rip in from the start and leave absolutely nothing in the tank. Cut the dumb ass penalties or mistakes at crucial times and take the game to the AB's - it's time to bully a bully.
I also hope Link uses the bench so our blokes get 15-20 mins to make an impact, especially big Skelton. Why pick them if they offer nothing and are just going to sit there for 80 mins.
I also hope Link uses the bench so our blokes get 15-20 mins to make an impact, especially big Skelton. Why pick them if they offer nothing and are just going to sit there for 80 mins.
It seems most coaches struggle to use their bench in really close games.
They're torn between putting them in the game and hoping they lift the team and worrying that the team might lose momentum and the use of the bench could be their downfall.
At the end of the day I think you've got to have faith that your bench are there to provide a lift in tempo which fresh players can bring late in a game and just go with them.
You might not ring the changes as much as you otherwise would if you were winning easily or getting beaten but you've still got to give them a decent stint on the park.
I thought the most obvious one that wasn't used was Kuridrani for McCabe. McCabe struggled to really make an impact on the game and didn't have the involvement of Horne. Kuridrani could have really provided us something and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) would have done a fine job on the wing.
Phipps, Foley and Skelton could have all had another 10 minutes.
They're torn between putting them in the game and hoping they lift the team and worrying that the team might lose momentum and the use of the bench could be their downfall.
At the end of the day I think you've got to have faith that your bench are there to provide a lift in tempo which fresh players can bring late in a game and just go with them.
You might not ring the changes as much as you otherwise would if you were winning easily or getting beaten but you've still got to give them a decent stint on the park.
I thought the most obvious one that wasn't used was Kuridrani for McCabe. McCabe struggled to really make an impact on the game and didn't have the involvement of Horne. Kuridrani could have really provided us something and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) would have done a fine job on the wing.
Phipps, Foley and Skelton could have all had another 10 minutes.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
How did you watch the game?
I don't think anyone who saw it on TV saw how diabolical and illegal Crockett was in the first half and how bad Cowan was when he came on.
If Crockett played for the Wallabies he would be binned in every game. If you concede that point it may be possible to have a sensible discussion.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Link never had too much trouble with his bench use at the Reds. Seemed to inject relative "has-beens" and "never-was'es" with great impact.
Is it perhaps the pressure of being at around 50% winning record after his first year in charge had him a little gun shy in such a big game?
I think the Kuridrani one really was an error as only 2 months ago he was a first choice starter, and rather warranting being dropped, it was just another player pushed ahead of him.
Skelton was the other. He's there to make an impact, and if you were just carrying your 3rd choice lock, surely you'd carry Horwill who offers the team more all-round value at lock. Hopefully on Saturday Link gives him the chance to make an impact.
Is it perhaps the pressure of being at around 50% winning record after his first year in charge had him a little gun shy in such a big game?
I think the Kuridrani one really was an error as only 2 months ago he was a first choice starter, and rather warranting being dropped, it was just another player pushed ahead of him.
Skelton was the other. He's there to make an impact, and if you were just carrying your 3rd choice lock, surely you'd carry Horwill who offers the team more all-round value at lock. Hopefully on Saturday Link gives him the chance to make an impact.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
The two run on locks were doing their jobs for the game. Skelton was brought on to offer that impact in the last 10. He showed some of that but certainly didn't break the game wide open. He was still a good option. Horwill is a player no different to the run-ons - in that he can go for the full 80 - He is not an impact player, well not anymore.
If one of either Simmo or Carter get injured in the first 10 or 20 then I would be concerned about Skelton playing 60 or 70 at this level.
If one of either Simmo or Carter get injured in the first 10 or 20 then I would be concerned about Skelton playing 60 or 70 at this level.
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