New Zealand Rugby Team Watch
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
- Start date
zer0
Greg Davis (50)
Would it? If it's true, then he's kept it to himself and is getting on with his job without any fuss. And he was still selected to be XV captain by Jamie Joseph who was, coincidentally, the other AB HC candidate from 2023.
Meanwhile Robertson got his job despite publicly undermining Foster.
Wilson
David Wilson (68)
I might be unclear on the timing but it sounds like he turned down the EOYT selection after the AB XV side played?
As quiet as it may have been kept publicly it will be very much known within NZRU (assuming it has happened as rumoured) and I'd expect any player who turned down a chance at national selection like that to not be looked at favorably, at least not without a very good reason. I don't think not respecting the coach and current setup is good enough on it's own, however valid a position that maybe.
He's contracted through to 2027 so it may all blow over by then, but assuming Razor is still coaching at the world cup Papali’i might find his contract negotiations with NZRU a bit difficult that year, particularly given Razor at least is unlikely to bother trying to select him again if he has been told no so bluntly this time around.
KiwiM
John Solomon (38)
I think there's a really high likelihood that Razor gets canned before the RWC the way things are heading. He has an extremely difficult South African tour next year - if the ABs carry on the way they are they are in big danger of getting spanked in that series. NZR will have a new CEO by then and already have a new Chairman.
waiopehu oldboy
Rocky Elsom (76)
Linked article is paywalled but goes on:
But that’s symbolic of the deeper mess New Zealand rugby has got itself into over the past decade in the key position, when the template left by late-career Dan Carter - a tactically astute playmaker and strong goalkicker - has been chipped away by the erroneous belief that hybrid No 10-15s are the way to go.
That scrambled thinking has been a strategic error and has left the All Blacks effectively hanging for the return of Richie Mo’unga to lift their Rugby World Cup hopes.
Mo’unga’s comeback next year will at least provide the All Blacks with a specialist in the position, but the pecking order beneath him looks to be in a state of flux and it’s quite possible that New Zealand rugby doesn’t actually know what it’s looking for or has gone so far down the wrong track that it’s too late to turn around.
Is Beauden Barrett a No 10 or 15? Ditto Damian McKenzie. And will Love, Josh Jacomb or Rivez Reihana even be the starting No 10s at their Super Rugby clubs next year?
The fact that no one can answer any of those questions with certainty is a huge concern, especially as the New Zealand rugby system is supposedly set up in a centralised fashion to prevent this sort of muddied thinking.
To be fair to Love, if he starts for the All Blacks against Cardiff, he has to be the Hurricanes No 10 next year come hell or high water.
The idea that anyone can consistently play No 10 at test level without years of seeing the pictures at the next level down isn’t just naive, it’s setting the player in question up to fail.
The other part of the No 10 issue that is troublesome is that New Zealand rugby as a whole has decided that it wants run-first, X-factor No 10s without the alternative model ever being tested.
What would the All Blacks have looked like over the past two tests with a No 10 with a big boot, tactical smarts and a simple desire to get them into the right areas?
The simple answer is: better. And yet, when this type of player - Harry Plummer - won Super Rugby with the Blues in 2024, there was still this underlying, borderline-arrogant narrative that he “wasn’t an All Blacks No 10”.
Plummer got five minutes off the bench for the All Blacks against the Wallabies in Sydney last year and was never seen again.
But he was just included in the Top 14 team of the month for October for his exploits for Clermont in France, so the 27-year-old can play and his retention would have at least provided the All Blacks with some tactical variety at No 10 - the possibility of a plan B.
KiwiM
John Solomon (38)
It's refreshing to see the media finally come around on some of these issues.
waiopehu oldboy
Rocky Elsom (76)
Seems to me that article has been sitting in Cully's top drawer for a while just waiting for it to ripen so to speak.
KiwiM
John Solomon (38)
His performance in the 2024 Super Rugby playoffs screamed test rugby style 10 play - absolutely infuriating he didn't get a look to at least see whether it would translate. I have similar frustrations with Rivez Reihana this year.
zer0
Greg Davis (50)
It does say that indeed. I'm just unliterate.
All leading to the Surfer Bro Robertson vs. Stern Vern thunderdome contract negotiations.
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
Whether we like it or not, there is no way I can imagine Razor getting canned before WC. To be replaced by who? The man I always wanted to get gig is Highlander head coach, and one of big reasons he would be good is the premise that Brown would be with him, who is tied in with SA until 2027'
I reckon the end of year tour was always a 3 from 4 tests was always considered a pass mark anyway.
Strewthcobber
Phil Kearns (64)
At some point NZ is going to have an actually poor year, and the reaction from their supporters is going to be a sight to behold.
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
Mate, have you seen the reaction over fact we have lost 3 tests this year (so far)? There are calls for coaches head etc.
I take your point, I genuinely wonder if we had a year or 2 ike Wallabies have last few years whether some of our supporters would need to be put in straight jackets etc
waiopehu oldboy
Rocky Elsom (76)
They've now lost three or more five years running which I'm going to go out on a limb & say is unprecedented.
KiwiM
John Solomon (38)
If ABs have a shocker of a South African tour there's going to be some serious heat on - what's the alternative? Just limp along to the World Cup further eroding the ABs?
I could see Jaime Joseph stepping in as an interim coach until 2027 RWC even without Tony Brown. Vern Cotter is another option. Supposedly they have year end reviews on the coaching and there are whispers that the likes of Scott Hansen are not well liked - Leon and Holland have already walked. Next year will see what impact a new assistant coach will have (at the very least surely Holland will be replaced).
KiwiM
John Solomon (38)
Exactly this. The likes of Roigard, Jordie and DMac have bought this team 2-3 more wins this year with their individual brilliance.
The set piece and tight 5 play for the most part looks good - not surprisingly that's the area of Jase Ryan - but the rest of the set up is a total mess (essentially the area supported by the rest of the coaches). They have some nice set piece strike moves but otherwise their phase play attack is really poor, they have poor passing and kicking skills, their loose forwards a mess, their restart kickoffs just hand easy exits to opposition, their high ball work is second worst to the Wallabies and their defence is constantly scrambling and overmatched in the backs.
Then you've got the whole issue of selection. They've hitched their whole season to Beauden at 10 who has been past his best for 5+ years, they pick players in squads that never play (Jacobson), they shun other plays and then manage to piss them off (Papalii), Razor says test match rugby is a big mans game then keeps picking Kirifi, they find that Tupaea looks the goods at 13 and then shift him, they never play Ruben Love, they have shown no interest in developing a 3rd 10 (see Paul Cully's article above). They refuse to properly cut ties with players who are past it and therefore block opportunties for other players (ALB, Reece etc).
It's interesting that the area of selection that has mostly gone well is the same area - tight 5 - Jase Ryan's area - they have developed some nice depth at prop and lock. The other areas? A mess.
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
While you right up to a point, I not sure if we want a gameplan so easy to that us plebs know what it is, or just about every coach will take it apart.
I actually get impression we got a style we trying to play, not sure it the right one or players are right ones to do it? We seem to have a plan to bring defence in from out wide, and then go there to a wing or loosie etc attacking sideline. Is good if you get ascendancy up front, and is that our problem.
I know it not popular opinion, but I think you watch, with BB at 10, he good at swing attack and moving from to other side of breakdown, and it looks somewhat a plan when we can break a couple of times down one way, we are actually looking to swing back quite well. I genuinely believe they need to tidy up detail, same as kick height etc from 9, with new laws being played, we need good chasers and getting in air, but with numbers so we can tap kicks back?
I mean I a bit pissed etc, but we have lost 3 games this year, perhaps not quite the end of the world.
Dismal Pillock
Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Not in Rassie's best interests to send out the Bok A team and murder this dogshit NZ team 4-0.
He'd surely rather play 5-D chess and keep the series alive by sending out his development team after the boks easily win the first 2 tests. In his best interests to keep Razor and his comically-deluded coaching team at the helm and in his crosshairs for RWC.