New Scrum Laws and Interpretations

[Nelse]

I'd say we'll hear a couple at least. Saying something for so long, coupled with fatigue toward the end of a game might mean a couple of crouch, touch, pau-aaaa-set

 

[yourmatesam]

Cracking thread Scott Allen ! I think the new call will help the game speed up as long as players, coaches and referees are all on the same page. Guaranteed that every other franchise has been going over the Round 1 Games with a fine tooth comb and in particular, the scrum calls.

The way I see it, the theory of the scrum call is no different to 2012 apart from the full arm sanction after an early set. As far as penalties go, the "early engage" short arm is generally a no brainer for a referee trying to let players know where they stand and what they expect of them during the game. The full arm penalty (if consistent) is designed to make teams react and I think that's a good thing.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

I thought it would be hard to change to saying "set" when reffing. But soon realized how much I hated saying pause in the first place and how much less stressful this new call is. (so it became a piece of cake)

I don't think it will change much, but the call definitely needed to be simplified. Small positives will come.

The hit at s15 level seems to cause a lot of scrums to go down on their own. But at the same time if refs are quick to penalize (like they have been) maybe players will end up going in a bit more cautiously.

 

[fatprop]

I thought it would be hard to change to saying "set" when reffing. But soon realized how much I hated saying pause in the first place and how much less stressful this new call is. (so it became a piece of cake)

I don't think it will change much, but the call definitely needed to be simplified. Small positives will come.

The hit at s15 level seems to cause a lot of scrums to go down on their own. But at the same time if refs are quick to penalize (like they have been) maybe players will end up going in a bit more cautiously.

to me the pause is just now unsaid, after the touch there is a "wait/pause" it is just silent as they wait for each pack to find stability

 

[Inside Shoulder]

.

The hit at s15 level seems to cause a lot of scrums to go down on their own. But at the same time if refs are quick to penalize (like they have been) maybe players will end up going in a bit more cautiously.

There seem to be a lot less resets this year - correct or optical illusion/wishful thinking?

 

[Scott Allen]

There seem to be a lot less resets this year - correct or optical illusion/wishful thinking?

So far it's been much better but we won't really know until we see a few more weeks of matches and with all teams playing.

 

[Scott Allen]

As you've probably all seen South Africa have introduced further new scrum laws which apply to all levels below the equivalent of 2nd grade in Shute Shield which effectively removes the power hit. Here's a link to the video explaining how it works for schoolboy rugby and non-professional senior rugby:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KdnjIjbi3E

This is primarily in response to the studies that came out last year showing the hit was the cause for the vast majority of "catastrophic" injuries in rugby.

I've just seen the first feedback on the impact this is having on scrum collapses from a coach with UCT Trojans in the Varsity Cup (http://ucttrojans.com/coaches/ross-williams/). Here's his tweet from last night:

Ross Munro Williams ‏@RossRugby
Interesting stat from past u20 game using the new scrum laws (no hit) 23 scrums in the game & NO collapses; quality ball & still a contest

 

[Nelse]

What has happened to the reserves for the front row that came in last year, with a full front row on the bench? Super Rugby didn't take it up?

 

[Braveheart81]

What has happened to the reserves for the front row that came in last year, with a full front row on the bench? Super Rugby didn't take it up?

Not this year because it would have caused issues with squad sizes and players on contract.

I believe it will come in next year.

 

[p.Tah]

They will also trial the non hit in the Pacific Nations Cup

The "crouch", "touch", "set" engagement calls currently being trialled globally are maintained within the PRC trial but in a revision to the technique of engagement, props will be expected to bind using their outside arm after the referee has called "touch" in the sequence.

http://www.irb.com/newsmedia/mediaz...id=2065490.html#scrum+trial+pacific+rugby+cup

 

[Quick Hands]

As an avid French Top watcher, I'd seen the new scrum engagement in action before. One thing that I've noticed is that in the 1st 2 weeks of super rugby, the referees are holding the scrums much longer than has been occurring in Top 14. I thought that Andrew Leeds in particular waited far too long to call "Set" and thus there were a lot of early engagement free kicks/penalties.

It seems from information on this thread that the super refs have come to their own interpretation. As seen from the law book extract below, there is nothing in the law about both packs being stationary before the referee calls set. Both packs merely have to be "ready". It's not that long ago that the referee made the mark and stepped away. Referees micro-managing the engagement has made this area a blight on the game. Done as it's written the new law should get the packs together quickly, ball in and on with the game.

The law reads:

(g)

The referee will call “crouch” then “touch”. The front rows crouch and, using their outside arm, each prop touches the point of the opposing prop’s outside shoulder. The props then withdraw their arms. Following a pause the referee will then call “set” when the front rows are ready. The front rows may then engage. The “set” call is not a command but an indication that the front rows may come together when ready.​

 

[Bardon]

Just a view from seeing the new scrum process evolve over the course of the season up here. At the beginning of the year the cadence of the Crouch, Touch, Set (pretty much how you just read that in your head was how the ref was saying it, only with a different accent) was very natural and it did seem to be faster. But as we neared the November internationals a silent pause phase started to appear in some referees calls.

By the time we hit this years 6Ns the silent pause had evolved to the point where there is little different to the old crouch, touch, pause, engage process other than the Ref doesn't actually call pause. With this silent pause phase there seemed to be more and more early engages at scrums as the front rows try to anticipate the set.

I was disappointed, although not surprised, to see that the Super Rugby season started with the same cadence that is now established in the NH also. Not sure if it has anything to do with it, but earlier in the season a new crop of referees were in charge of the earlier rounds of the HEC and they had a very natural cadence in their calls. Now it's like the Referees are calling it Crouch, Touch, <pause>, Set with the pause said in the Refs head and the old problem of varying lengths of the silent pause phase.

When I saw it in action at the beginning of the season I was hopeful seeing the natural cadence making a real difference. But this evolved process of calls is no different to the old one now, unless they go back to the natural cadence I can't see it making any practical difference. All the old problems are back again plus the early engaging due to this silent pause.

 

[Scott Allen]

Not a single scrum re-set in the Reds v Tahs game on Saturday night. Compare that to 2011 when I think most people lost count of the number of re-sets.

15 scrums packed in the game - 9 fed by the Reds and 6 by the Tahs. Two penalties awarded so 13/15 completed.

 

[elementfreak]

Ash said: ↑

​

"Have they been instructed to very quickly escalate to penalty for early engagements as well?​

​

Noticed that Lees called a penalty against the Reds for their second early engagement, which was a full fourty minutes after the first. However, the way he did it was almost an afterthought (as he actually signalled a half arm then quickly changed), which implied it was a directive that a just remembered at the last second.​

​

Curious to see if this will be applied in other games or not. Another poster mentioned that it's already being done elsewhere."​

Teams will get 1 FK for early engages and then they go to PKs and stay at PKs for the rest of the game.

 

[Nelse]

Anyone else here TJ mention in the Crusaders v Highlanders game about the 'crouch-touch-bind' going before the IRB in May and looking to come in on the EOYTs? From what I got from TJ was that there would be no release on the touch. I may be wrong.

Anyone know if this is the case?

 

[Bairdy]

I think I've read Scott Allen mention it, but they're trialling it in the Pacific Nations Cup? this year and then in the European domestic competitions later this year. In essence they would bind in the sequence to the prop's jersey

 

[Quick Hands]

Anyone else here TJ mention in the Crusaders v Highlanders game about the 'crouch-touch-bind' going before the IRB in May and looking to come in on the EOYTs? From what I got from TJ was that there would be no release on the touch. I may be wrong.

Anyone know if this is the case?

I heard it, but it was so quick I didn't quite get it all. I think this might refer to the return to a softer engagement process, which is currently being trialled in South Africa.