New "LIV Style" Global Rugby League

[PhilClinton]

Phil Waugh has talked to Mike Tindall, I believe. He said as much in an interview recently. So I don't think RA are uninformed about the competition.

I think R360's comments about players being free to play internationally is a bit disingenuous. What if a test clashes with a R360 round? What about a training camp? What happens to players if they are injured during a test and can't play R360? The 'you can have your cake and eat it too' just rings very hollow with me.

Yep totally agree - only the players with contracts know the details around some of those questions. If R360 are being genuine about the international releases, I think it would essentially mean fully guaranteeing the contracts regardless of whether players are available/injured. That would be quite a move.

I do know that the women's contracts contain clauses of fully guaranteed money for 12 months whilst on parental leave, which is something the current unions haven't been able to provide.

I am interested to see if R360 issue a rebuttal statement at some point in the next few days outlining anything like that.

 

[barbarian]

This goes to my issue with picking international players in general. We've seen it with the Skelton experience. He's here, then he's not, then he's back, now he might go again. It works for a one-off series like a Lions or a World Cup but impossible to build cohesion outside of that.

Now we're being asked to pick players in a hypothetical comp that will clearly be a step down from the NH or Super Rugby. That is currently unsanctioned by World Rugby. And brags about how the players will be playing less. Reckon it was probably the easiest decision Phil Waugh has made since he became CEO.

 

[Major Tom]

Their statement says R360 haven't been collaborative or transparent.

But talking to the solicitors I know who are dealing with some of the contracts here in Australia, their response today is the unions haven't met with the players either or opened up meaningful dialogue around solutions. Everyone has been blindsided by this statement.

So potentially RA assessing the current state of their playing group and getting those managers/players together for conversations around the contracts before issuing a blanket ban statement would help.

I just don't see how this statement ends up reflecting well for the unions involved. They'll either stand strong and end up losing a fair chunk of talent at international level for at least 2-3 years and in Australia that would be very bad (particularly for the women's game as I can't see how our local funding will come close to R360). Or end up having to wind it back and then are coming from a position of weakness.

You want RA to meet with every player individually?
The unions have been waiting in R360 to release details which they haven’t been forthcoming with. This seems a pretty obvious response.

 

[PhilClinton]

You want RA to meet with every player individually?
The unions have been waiting in R360 to release details which they haven’t been forthcoming with. This seems a pretty obvious response.

Not at all, get all their key players in a room. The brains trust of RA surely has the best idea which players they would be desperate to keep and who is being targeted. Meet with them all together.

RA are the current employer of all their players. They know R360 is on the horizon and looking to employ their current employees.

Instead of sitting on their fingers waiting for everything to happen they could proactively have attempted to highlight their concerns with their players and open some dialogue around why it would be best for everyone to stay put.

Although let's be honest, for a large number of guys and girls the whole conversation is going to be around life changing money and RA simply don't have that to offer.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Where's RUPA in all of this?

 

[Major Tom]

Not at all, get all their key players in a room. The brains trust of RA surely has the best idea which players they would be desperate to keep and who is being targeted. Meet with them all together.

RA are the current employer of all their players. They know R360 is on the horizon and looking to employ their current employees.

Instead of sitting on their fingers waiting for everything to happen they could proactively have attempted to highlight their concerns with their players and open some dialogue around why it would be best for everyone to stay put.

Although let's be honest, for a large number of guys and girls the whole conversation is going to be around life changing money and RA simply don't have that to offer.

They were clearly waiting to see if this thing is a chance of getting up. There have been heaps of rebel leagues proposed in the past that haven't been worth RA's time to discuss.
I think all the players would know that if they sign on to R360 it could impact them at selection time. This is now definitely the case.

 

[PhilClinton]

Now we're being asked to pick players in a hypothetical comp that will clearly be a step down from the NH or Super Rugby. That is currently unsanctioned by World Rugby. And brags about how the players will be playing less. Reckon it was probably the easiest decision Phil Waugh has made since he became CEO.

My counterpoint to this would be if the players are going to be at home far more often and not tied up in competition, what is stopping RA from negotiating for players to participate in additional Wallabies activities when not involved in R360.

If we are talking about building cohesion, if 15 of our best players jump to R360, wouldn't a potential solution be to have them participate in high performance Wallabies camps and even run some junior training camps for our development pathways.

They could say, righto no worries you can jump to R360 but if you want to play for the Wallabies you need to attend 3 high performance camps and run at least one junior camp. It would also be a way to integrate the Australian NRL blokes who jump over. They could also pay them quite well for their time considering their huge salaries won't be on the books.

 

[PhilClinton]

They were clearly waiting to see if this thing is a chance of getting up. There have been heaps of rebel leagues proposed in the past that haven't been worth RA's time to discuss.
I think all the players would know that if they sign on to R360 it could impact them at selection time. This is now definitely the case.

I posted on here I think about 4 weeks ago that lawyers had already started reviewing the contracts.

So there has been at least 4 weeks (but in reality, far longer) for RA to meet with players before releasing this statement.

 

[barbarian]

My counterpoint to this would be if the players are going to be at home far more often and not tied up in competition, what is stopping RA from negotiating for players to participate in additional Wallabies activities when not involved in R360.

Sure, but the impact on Super Rugby can't be ignored here. What is the impact of RA saying 'hey guys, we'll pick you for the Wallabies from R360 so you can have your cake AND eat it too!'.

The impact that would have, I imagine, would be forcing the signature of every Aussie player with a contract in front of them. Because why the hell wouldn't you take that deal?

Meanwhile the Super Rugby clubs become ghost towns. Dan McKeller is pulling blokes out of subbies now. Say goodbye to Super Rugby - we're all up at 3am watching the Tokyo Tigers playing the Riyadh Rhinos!

 

[Crashy]

who was pulled out of subbies?
please dont say it was Charlie Gamble, as he was dominating SS when he was selected.

 

[barbarian]

No, I mean in the hypothetical scenario where RA sanctions R360. Every man and his dog would be on the plane to King Abdullah Economic City, boots in one hand, champagne flute in the other.

 

[fatprop]

My team will be the DOHA slaveholders

 

[barbarian]

Certainly no escape clauses in their player contracts

 

[Rob42]

Based on the Saudi's previous treatment of journalists, Christy Doran will want to ensure he gets his leaked team information correct first time when reporting on the Riyadh Rockets.

 

[Rob42]

Where's RUPA in all of this?

I assume Justin Harrison set up a Zoom call for all players where he talked for 2 hours about stakeholders, content, achievables, aspiration, synergies, low-hanging fruit, ROIs, disruption, bandwidth, going to market, mindmaps, circling back, in the weeds, 30000ft view, moving goalposts, generative AI, agility, whiteboards, deliverables, until everyone fell asleep. Basically the same as any episode of Inside Line when he's there.

 

[Major Tom]

I assume Justin Harrison set up a Zoom call for all players where he talked for 2 hours about stakeholders, content, achievables, aspiration, synergies, low-hanging fruit, ROIs, disruption, bandwidth, going to market, mindmaps, circling back, in the weeds, 30000ft view, moving goalposts, generative AI, agility, whiteboards, deliverables, until everyone fell asleep. Basically the same as any episode of Inside Line when he's there.

Macro challenges

 

[Omar Comin']

No, I mean in the hypothetical scenario where RA sanctions R360. Every man and his dog would be on the plane to King Abdullah Economic City, boots in one hand, champagne flute in the other.

Too much panic. There's only going to be 6 mens teams to start and then 8. The format limits it from expanding too much more than that. There'll be 20-25 Australian players in it at any given time, and half of them might come from the NRL. There's a lot more Australians playing in Japan. It's hardly going to wipe out Super Rugby, even if it somehow survives for more than 3 years.

 

[fatprop]

It will be a good post world cup superannuation scheme for all our players retiring from test rugby and those you were never going to play another test rugby match

I hope everyone involved gets enough $$$ to buy their own waterfront property as the winners out of the IPL earned

 

[barbarian]

Too much panic. There's only going to be 6 mens teams to start and then 8. The format limits it from expanding too much more than that. There'll be 20-25 Australian players in it at any given time, and half of them might come from the NRL. There's a lot more Australians playing in Japan. It's hardly going to wipe out Super Rugby, even if it somehow survives for more than 3 years.

Well for 6 teams you need at least 180 players, maybe 200. Now every other union has come out and prevented national selection, I reckon a scenario where RA acquiesced could see 40 players go, maybe 50? Even then they have to find another 130-140 players from somewhere, which is no small task.

Take the best 40 players out of our Super rugby sides and you've basically got what we just played now. In fact probably a lesser version of that.

 

[Omar Comin']

Well for 6 teams you need at least 180 players, maybe 200. Now every other union has come out and prevented national selection, I reckon a scenario where RA acquiesced could see 40 players go, maybe 50? Even then they have to find another 130-140 players from somewhere, which is no small task.

Take the best 40 players out of our Super rugby sides and you've basically got what we just played now. In fact probably a lesser version of that.

I think there's no chance a quarter of the players would be Australian. Even in a scenario where RA allowed eligibility and NZ and SA didn't, I'd be surprised if there still weren't more kiwis and saffas in this comp. They just produce a lot more good players. There'll be plenty of Europeans whether they're available for test selection or not, the money is too good. And then there's nothing holding back the best Argentinians, Fijians, Samoans, Tongans and standout players from other tier 2 nations (the moneyball players to fill out squads, much cheaper than current or former Wallabies and All Blacks - I'll bet there's a Georgian front rower in just about every team).