National Rugby Championship 2015

[kiap]

How is that the same thing?

It's close enough.

Would most prefer just 2 NSW teams run by Watatahs just like in Qld. Then take excess players from Perth, Melbourne, and Canberra and make an Adelaide team.

Maybe something like that could eventually work.

Get the Tahs/NSWRU more on board. The politics have meant it had to start another way, though.

I want to see an Adelaide side but with the fly-in costs it's understandable why the idea has been left on the shelf, at least initially.

The comp probably needs to run a bit more before it can happen. The backers (if they're out there) will need a clear idea from a few year's worth of data of how much they're throwing aw... erm, ... investing for the good of the game - per season.

 

[Highlander35]

Sort of is.

Wallaby top up distribution favours the Tahs and Reds, and to a lesser extent, the Brumbies. Foley was on his way to the Rebels, before Tahs inc. threw a tantrum.

I think 35 players currently have top ups at Wallaby level. Maybe we should say that each Super side must have at least 5 players on top ups.

 

[qwerty51]

The top ups go to the best players in the country..

I don't know exactly how the NRC allocation works but I don't believe each player can just cherry pick who they want to play for unlike a Super Rugby contract.

 

[Highlander35]

So? Super Rugby players as the best ones in the country on a relative level too.

I wonder how many playing for the Rising, or the Spirit, or the Vikings would opt to move had it been free reign on movement.

Anyway, if the competition is stable, multi year contracts will emerge and so will pride and tradition for the multi-state outfits. That's hos it'll get sorted somewhat.

The other alternative is that you set it up so that everyone playing Super Rugby in 20XX needs to play NRC in 20XX, and do the allocations much earlier in the season so that Injuries, departures and Wallabies selection don't influence the make up of the squads.

 

[Scoey]

That'll do me! A Tahs fan whinging about unequal distribution of talent.

They made their fucking bed.....

 

[qwerty51]

That'll do me! A Tahs fan whinging about unequal distribution of talent.

They made their fucking bed...

Yeah because the other teams are stockpiling NSW talent..

 

[Cpt Crow Eater]

That'll do me! A Tahs fan whinging about unequal distribution of talent.

They made their fucking bed...

Good attitude that, great way to grow the game....

Obviously its year two, so my main concern is making sure the comp keeps going. With relocating players it cost a bit more, but it needs to happen eventually.

I followed the Rising last year when I was in Melbourne, but I still noticed the disparity in squads. I think it is exacerbated when the teams choose to stack their forwards with Soup players especially.

I want the comp to grow, but if only 1000 people are rocking up to games now, will they keep coming if their team is getting pumped by 50 each week and their scrums are constantly getting ripped open??

Please leave the parochial state vs state thing at the door and get behind growing the game and depth please!

 

[qwerty51]

Exactly, how is the comp going to grow in terms of support, viewership and development is there's a very uneven balance in quality.

 

[Slim 293]

Canberra and Melbourne have simply benefited from the RWC cycle by having a greater contingent of young talent...........

The Vikings in particularly are well stocked with Super Rugby players, but many of them only debuted this year..............

The mass exodus out of NSW and Qld was always going to have an effect on their NRC teams.

They should be stronger next year.

 

[kiap]

I followed the Rising last year when I was in Melbourne, but I still noticed the disparity in squads. I think it is exacerbated when the teams choose to stack their forwards with Soup players especially.

I want the comp to grow, but if only 1000 people are rocking up to games now, will they keep coming if their team is getting pumped by 50 each week and their scrums are constantly getting ripped open?

It's a good point.

Right from the prelim stages of kickstarting the comp, the player allocation has been a bone of contention. Particularly the Sydney clubs versus the new franchises.

It needs a balance. The complicating factor is that the NRC teams have to run lean, so the Super Rugby sides paying their contracted players have the most sway (and rightly so from their POV).

The player cap numbers can be tweaked at the margins but this won't make the issue go away because the Supe teams are able to sign the cheques and the NRC teams realistically cannot.

I suspect the real way these self-interests will resolve is for the NRC sides to be aligned better with the Super Rugby teams.

 

[kiap]

The mass exodus out of NSW and Qld was always going to have an effect on their NRC teams.

They should be stronger next year.

This probably doesn't apply so much to Qld.

The QRU teams should be competitive enough this season.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Truth be told, NSW is over subscribed by at least one team. What really should have happened was a reboot of the original ARC squads. Ideally two run by the Waratahs and one independent.

What this situation really highlights is the disparity issues in the feeder competition in Sydney. This season has been probably the closest it has been for some time in the Shute Shield. However, the issues still remain where you can essentially pick the top 6 before the first kickoff. The talent base is to narrow.

 

[Slim 293]

Yeah, they didn't need to reboot the exact same teams, but they should've at least gone with the same principle:

- Sydney City (Sydney Uni/Balmain, Easts, Randwick, Southern Districts?)
- Northern Sydney (Manly, Gordon, Norths, Warringah)
- Greater Western Sydney (Parramatta, Penrith, Eastwood, West Harbour)

 

[kiap]

Ideally two run by the Waratahs and one independent.

Maybe. If the Tahs got on board they should be able to match (or beat) the type of setup at the Reds.

One question over that (out of many) is the split entities of the Waratahs and NSWRU. The Tahs reason for being is mainly to do with Super Rugby (and rightly from their POV). Even without the rugby politics, some arrangements would need to be made to put it all together.

 

[qwerty51]

What have the Reds done so much better than the Tahs in terms of on field success of their NRC teams? The difference is purely 4 vs 2.

 

[kiap]

What have the Reds done so much better than the Tahs in terms of on field success of their NRC teams? The difference is purely 4 vs 2.

It's more like 0 vs 2.

The Tahs don't have much skin in it (or, rather, control of it) - and that's the rub.

It's 4 x consortiums of clubs. It had to be that be way to start with, but that's going to need some refining with more of a share taken at the Super level.

 

[TOCC]

What have the Reds done so much better than the Tahs in terms of on field success of their NRC teams? The difference is purely 4 vs 2.

QRU provide the coaching staff, the training facilities, the S&C staff and the logistical staff..

Waratahs have provided none of that and the last I read from NSW was the the Tahs wanted to charge one of the NRC a hefty fee to use their gym.

Quite simply NSW doesn't have the depth for 4 teams, forcing quotas and players to move from other states is only going to increase the overheads of running the competition.

 

[Brumby Runner]

It's more like 0 vs 2.

The Tahs don't have much skin in it (or, rather, control of it) - and that's the rub.

It's 4 x consortiums of clubs. It had to be that be way to start with, but that's going to need some refining with more of a share taken at the Super level.

If the Tahs or NSWRugby take a share of the Sydney based NRC sides, will that lead again to the SS Clubs essentially giving it the thumbs down? If so, kiss the comp good bye.

 

[kiap]

SS Clubs essentially giving it the thumbs down

The clubs could do with the help.

Depending on how things were done, they probably keep an ownership stake sufficient to collectively win a deciding vote - dunno. Resources are tipped in, what's not to like?

But if they all go their own way and thrive then fine. For mine, the NRC sides in NSW are a few hurdles behind because they don't have as much help from the tier above.

 

[TOCC]

Waratahs can invest without taking control of the NRC teams, small things like leveraging some of the coaching and S&C resources, using Waratahs/NSWU media and logistical staff to improvise productivity and lower the overheads of the clubs...

There is a lot which can be done in assisting the NRC teams without taking ownership of them. It's in the Waratahs/NSWRU best interest to have successful NRC teams.


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