National Academy 2012

[country rugby]

Actually I think you will find that most of these youngsters will be on $5K and not $10 to $15K.

There will be those whose families are not in Brisbane (or Sydney) to enable players to live at home and these players will be living near the poverty line. What job could you possibly get that will allow for all the training sessions required over the next few months? If you are fresh out of school, mum is still doing your washing, cooking and cleaning, the $5k is pocket money because m&d still support you.

For those only receiving $5K and having to support themselves, life could be miserable. A player must really want to be part of this because he could earn better elsewhere I'm sure. And for those who were 1st year in the state run academy last year and receiving $5K, have heard that some of these are still only getting $5K this year. No wonder positions in the ARU academy were turned down. It is obvious that players are expected to be supported by their families. Unfair. And because the contracts are not supposed to be talked about we really don't know but maybe they are all classed as 1st year academy players in this new setup, and receive $5K like they did in their first year with the franchises.

Must say that these boys must be committed because there is definitely no monetary incentive!

 

[Lee Grant]

blues recovery

Agree that there is no way the national academy can purport to be a 3rd tier to choose players from if they have enough injuries that they have to go beyond the 35 players (counting the EPS) in each squad. It is just a theoretical possibility. As I mentioned earlier: the Super teams will cherry pick from Grade.


The only players from the 60 odd listed above that could be elevated in an emergency IMO are: 7 Latinipulu and perhaps 4/5 Cummins.


I don't have a problem with that: I don't think that it's the role of the national academy to work on more mature players. If older guys aren't good enough to be contracted or to get into the EPS of any Super team they will have to grab the attention of the clipboard guys by performing in Grade.


Players who were stars at school will have the front running to get in the national academy but I like the idea they used of having the clubs nominate players for it. The club people would know who performed well in Colts and who was good enough to be elevated to Grade, or will be the following year. Players mature in both a physical and rugby sense at different times; so the National Academy should be open to players a few years after leaving school.


But age 22 sounds about the right cut off point to have guys in the academy though there should always be an exception every now and then for special cases.


If later maturing players still have a dream they'll have to get themselves in a club where they think the coaches will bring the best out of them - and that has players they can learn from. In the case of props, especially, they have to learn on the job, though a year or two in the national academy will be a good place to learn technique.


If some players go offshore and do well after 5 pro teams have overlooked them, and they shouldn't have, I won't be surprised. With no ARC to assess players in properly in there will always be players lost to overseas clubs, and lesser players taking up contract spots that would better have been given to them.


But I digress.
.

 

[Lee Grant]

Bennets and Matwijow have declined spots in the National Academy to take up positions in the wider training group at the Rebels. A large part of this academys function is supposed to be to provide a pool of players for the Super Rugby teams to call upon if there are injuries within their squad , as will definitely happen.

I should have quoted this in my last post. I'm guessing that these fellows were approached by the Rebels after they allowed their clubs to put their names forward for the academy.

Everybody made noises about the academy guys being available for the Super teams but I don't think too many took the noises seriously. Super teams want reserve players outside their playing group to be experienced.

As for the two players: they are both 21 and not young shavers like some of the recent school leavers on the list. They probably think that the Rebels WTG will get them closer to the action and they'll likely be involved in opposed training with the Rebels. The kind of training they will be exposed to will be at a higher level than they would get in the national academy.

They'll be handy to have around. Bennetts has been in the Tahs academy, amateur then pro, every year since leaving school and was in top form for Eastwood at 13 this year. Ben M. at 197cms and 117kgs is already a young old stager at Northern Suburbs - and he has good bloodlines being the great-grandson of Dally Messenger.


Incidentally, another player chosen for the Academy, Elijah Niko, has decided to stay in league and will be with the NQ Cowboys.

 

[spectator]

blues recovery

The only players from the 60 odd listed above that could be elevated in an emergency IMO are: 7 Latinipulu and perhaps 4/5 Cummins.


.

Several guys with decent Brisbane Premier experience that might be able to step up in an emergency. I'm thinking Blain, Ah Wong and Wade.

Lee - have you assumed Wade is a hooker or is that listed somewhere? I remember him as a flanker for Qld and OZ A schools in 2007, but he may have been playing there for Uni?

 

[Scott Allen]

Spectator - Mitch Wade has played both #2 and #7 in the past.

He was man of the match in University of Qld's win in the 2010 Premier Grade Grand Final playing at #7 but played #2 for University of Qld in Premier Grade in 2011 as James Hanson was only available for limited club games.

 

[tranquility]

I have said this already, but why is Miller missing?

That game he played against the Kiwis was awe inspiring

 

[Lee Grant]

speckie

I should have added "from the Sydney competition". I actually thought I did because I was thinking that, but I didn't.


Austin

About your earlier remarks about Reiser: I saw Sam playing from the bench for Oz U/19s v. England U/18 a few months ago. He was still skinny and didn't look like he would get the weight to be able to play in the tight 5 later on; so I categorised him as a senior 6. However the NA will be good for him as they say that they are going to emphasise strength and conditioning.


Another case to the point is Michael Wells. He's a superb schools no. 8 and looks like the Italian player Parisse at that level, but he's tall so Oz Schools chucked him into the 2nd row. But although he's 195 cms, he is only 96kgs; so I fear that he may not be able to get the bulk to play pro rugby. He's what NTA used to call a halfling: a player too light, or alternatively too short, to play his best position as a pro player. I categorised him as a 6 also, but hope that the NA can add some kilos to him in a productive way.


Not quite to the point but: one of the eye openers for me in 2011 rugby was the appearance (literally) of the England U/18 players. They were a year younger than the Oz U/19 lads they played, but they were the ones that appeared to be a year older. They looked like U/20s. I'm thinking that the mentioned emphasis on S&C in the NA for lads the year after leaving school, and/or the year after that, will reflect well on the Oz U/20 team when they get to that stage.


The young England lads had all been connected with a pro rugby academy in their last couple of years at school; so chances are that they are always going to be ahead of us in that department at the U/20 level, but it's a step in the right direction for us.


I am not 100% sure if early S&C means a lot for these young fellows beyond the U/20 level because when the best of them get start in Super rugby, or play in test matches, they would have caught up with the Poms physically. But given the penchant for Super coaches to chuck teenagers onto the park it will be a comfort to know that a player 2 or 3 years out of school has had advanced S&C before he arrives at his Super club.


The next step will be somehow to mimic what the league clubs do and get teenagers in the gym even younger. Most of the big private schools have gyms. They just need an expert to visit and give each lad selected a programme that someone at the school can oversee. Then they should track their progress with further visits. Some may say that the big schools do that anyway but the average 16 or 17 who has been "processed" by a league club will look more advanced than an average private schools player of the same age.


The same kind of thing should be set up for school lads not going to private schools. There's got to be some way that their local clubs can do something similar for 16 and 17 year olds: to arrange for an outside expert to give them a programme and have them tracked. The clubs will want to lock them into their Colts set up anyway.


Some may say that the lads should be left alone to be boys until they leave school. I understand that, but some of the kids eat that stuff up, especially if they have a dream.
.

 

[Lee Grant]

tranquility

I mentioned about Miller earlier in the thread that he may have a problem getting to pro rugby because he weighs only 86 kgs now whereas Baldwin weighs 92kgs. Sure I know all the arguments about the weight of players and yarda, yarda - but it's the only reason I can think of. Mind you Gill would have been about the same weight as Miller at the same age.

Sean McMahon is only 87kgs and he got in but he may be in it because he's been picked for Oz 7s. He played no.8 for Oz schools but he's not an 8.

Not to the point but Sean's selection in the Oz Sevens team is a good story. His management company entered a team in the Noosa warm up tournament recently and they beat the Oz Sevens team. MOC signed him up for Oz 7s for 2 years on the spot. He's going to be the youngest Oz 7s player we've ever had.

His dad is happy that he will be with Oz Sevens and not going on his schoolies trip which he had planned. I understand that.

 

[spectator]

I have said this already, but why is Miller missing?

That game he played against the Kiwis was awe inspiring

Have to agree Tranq. I saw LG's answer but how can a bloke who wins the "Golden Boot" be left out of the Academy the year after picking up the award? Surely $5K is not too much to test the worth of the bloke who got the MOTM against the Kiwi's?

 

[tranquility]

Yeah, I think LG answer is probably on the money. But geez, if it is the case - it shows that we are really going about this the wrong way.

The timing he had in his counter-rucking, and playing the halfback because the the bird could shit on the ball were all key signs of a bloke who not only understands the game but plays on instinct. There the blokes you need.

Ahh well Il quit my whingin. If he is good enough, he'll get there.

 

[Lee Grant]

Spot on tranquility - time will work things out. There are a lot of sliding doors for players at that age and Miller and Baldwin have been through a few doors already.

Miller surprised me in that game. I was at the ground and attributed some of the things he did to Baldwin (the lads were similar looking to my old eyes). It was only when I saw the TV broadcast that I realised I had under-valued him.

Baldwin had the bigger reputation in the Sydney GPS comp but injured his ankle early in the season. Both were named in the GPS Is but only Miller could play, and with no great distinction IIRR. Neither was named for NSW Schools though Miller was in the shadow squad. But because Combined States could pick players that weren't selected in their state teams, they took a punt on Baldwin being healthy and they chose Miller for the other flank. So both these lads got to the Oz Schools tournament by the back door.

At the end of the tournament Baldwin was chosen for Oz Schools and Miller for Oz A Schools,. Then Cusack couldn't get fit to play for the Ones; so Miller was moved onto the Oz Schools bench. After the first Schools test against England, the excellent Oz Schools 8, Timu, signed a contract to play league so Miller got promoted to the starting XV and played the best game of his life, most likely, playing like Liam Gill on the same ground two years before.

Sliding doors, as I said - and there will be a few more also before he hangs up his boots.

 

[Albert]

Lee, I don't want to sound like a wanker, but it is Friday and beer o'clock... so perhaps this can be excused. Thanks for your info / insights. Very valuable, very much appreciated - on all things rugby, but those younger players in particular. I wouldn't be suprised if you were a journo / sports agent / coach at some point in your life. I enjoy reading your stuff.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

Spot on tranquility - time will work things out. There are a lot of sliding doors for players at that age and Miller and Baldwin have been through a few doors already.

Miller surprised me in that game. I was at the ground and attributed some of the things he did to Baldwin (the lads were similar looking to my old eyes). It was only when I saw the TV broadcast that I realised I had under-valued him.

Baldwin had the bigger reputation in the Sydney GPS comp but injured his ankle early in the season. Both were named in the GPS Is but only Miller could play, and with no great distinction IIRR. Neither was named for NSW Schools though Miller was in the shadow squad. But because Combined States could pick players that weren't selected in their state teams, they took a punt on Baldwin being healthy and they chose Miller for the other flank. So both these lads got to the Oz Schools tournament by the back door.

At the end of the tournament Baldwin was chosen for Oz Schools and Miller for Oz A Schools,. Then Cusack couldn't get fit to play for the Ones; so Miller was moved onto the Oz Schools bench. After the first Schools test against England, the excellent Oz Schools 8, Timu, signed a contract to play league so Miller got promoted to the starting XV and played the best game of his life, most likely, playing Like Liam Gill on the same ground two years before.

Sliding doors, as I said - and there will be a few more also before he hangs up his boots.

Lee you seemed to have forgotten that Rhys Dombkins was a first choice selection in both OZ Schools sides this year but was ruled out through injury. If he had not been injured and unavailable for both games then Miller may not have got a run in OZ Schools. He took his chances and good on him. I believe Dombkins is unlucky as he was NSW best forward in Qld and good performances for OZ Schools may have seen him in the Academy. He is playing for Manly this year and will be interested to watch his development

 

[BrumbiesPolynesian]

Seilala Lam???

 

[Lee Grant]

Lee you seemed to have forgotten that Rhys Dombkins was a first choice selection in both OZ Schools sides this year but was ruled out through injury. If he had not been injured and unavailable for both games then Miller may not have got a run in OZ Schools. He took his chances and good on him. I believe Dombkins is unlucky as he was NSW best forward in Qld and good performances for OZ Schools may have seen him in the Academy. He is playing for Manly this year and will be interested to watch his development

Dombkins was certainly unfortunate this year and I thought he was unlucky to miss out on the academy too. Another fellow I expected to get in was Jacob Woodhouse. Obviously he is not as good as I think he is.

I don't think that Miller took up Dombkin's spot in the Oz Schools team to play against England because Corey Thomas also came into the 23 from the As and it wouldn't have been to replace Cusack. In the NZ test it was Manasa Rokosuka who came into the 23 and Thomas went back to the As.

You never know though.

 

[lily]

Can someone explain to me why Bill Meakes and Jacob Woodhouse, who incidently were in the 20s this year not be in this. Same goes for Katone Ale who is only 21 and was one of Manly's best all year. All 3 of these guys played premier rugby all year. I assume it's for the same reason as why so many do not take up academy spots. The ARU believe it's OK for players to stay at home and bludge off their parents. It's fine if your parents are wealthy. Unfortunately some aren't and they have to work meaning the tiny amount of coin the ARU are prepared to splash out is not enough to pay for the necessities in life.
Too much money is chucked at the 16 to 20 year olds. They need to start rewarding the next level a bit more. The establishment of the EPS is a step in the right direction but as seen by some of the omissions more work needs to be done to retain them.

 

[twenty seven]

lily

Too much money. Don't know very many of those. Do know there are many of the 17 - 20 year olds holding down jobs, training, studying, training, living away from home, training and don't have wealthy parents. Bit general there!

 

[lily]

What I meant was that the ARU spends way too much time and money on this agegroup. A couple of the NTS/gold squad members guys couldn't even make CHS 3rds this year. That is what I was referring to. Also the training is meant to be semi professional meaning most will have to cutback either their courseload or work load. If they dont then I cant imagine that drifting off during training due to exhaustion will be tolerated. More money needs to be spent on people that have already shown that they have the ability to play 1st grade week in and week out.

 

[Lee Grant]

You have a point lily, though the selection of a few dud NTS/Gold players does not add to the cost of anything.

Your point is yet another hidden negative of not having an ARC. In 2007 we saw the use of exactly the type of player you want to see encouraged: players who have left school for 3 or 4 years but have not had a chance at a level above club rugby. The ARC teams didn't want too many recent school leavers in their squad for obvious reasons yet they couldn't corner the market on the Super14 players that were available.

I wrote something about Ale a little while back and said because he looked ready to step up but he didn't get selected in any EPS, because not many 7s were chosen due to there being a glut of 7s already contracted, he was a chance to leave the country. The same may apply to Woodhouse and perhaps Meakes also.

 

[Empire]

This was exactly the sentiment mentioned to me by a member of the ACT XV (made up of the top Canberran players who are unsigned). Many of these guys have been schoolboys, A.R.C reps and super 12/14 standard, and haven't gone onto bigger things.

A similar team played the Brumbies academy last year and won convincingly. It's a real pity there isn't a national third tier.