National Academy 2012

[PTB]

The states/ACT will still have their own amateur academies and have anybody in them that they want to, if the lads want to give up their time to get free training.

Is that so Lee? I was of the belief that the new ARU academy replaced all franchises academies and centralized it into one ARU academy at the two different locations (Syd and Qld)

 

[James Buchanan]

Is that so Lee? I was of the belief that the new ARU academy replaced all franchises academies and centralized it into one ARU academy at the two different locations (Syd and Qld)

From what I have gathered from recent discussions of the topic, the ARU academies are for the players being paid for by the ARU. If the individual states want to reach into their own pockets to pay for a player to train with them, there is the implication that they can. However, the player cannot play in the Super competition unless the State can demonstrate to the ARU why one of their contracted players or EPS players cannot do so. Nor can they necessarily prevent that player from playing for another franchise. All in all, its not strictly a good investment by the states.

That being said, that's merely an interpretation gained from the discussion on here and could be completely incorrect.

 

[Lee Grant]

Is that so Lee? [That the states/ACT will still have their own amateur academies and have anybody in them that they want to, if the lads want to give up their time to get free training.]

I was of the belief that the new ARU academy replaced all franchises academies and centralized it into one ARU academy at the two different locations (Syd and Qld)

Austin made it clear that all the National Academy guys will be paid so, by definition, they won't be amateurs, and I was talking about amateurs as indicated in your quote of what I wrote. These are typically young fellows, some of them Colts, who don't have full time jobs or Uni studies. Some Sydney Uni players are offered spots but they turn them down as they get the same quality coaching at their club, on the premises. Other Sydney lads have turned spots down because Moore Park is too far away from where they live.

But I digress, Somewhere else I also mentioned what JB spoke about: that there is nothing stopping a franchise from paying fellows outside the 30 + 5 players in their extended squad - provided they are not in breach of RUPA guidelines, of course. You could see the case where a squad has two good hookers in their CPS of 30 and a 3rd hooker in the EPS of 5, but one of the starting hookers has a dodgy injury record and may not be able to start the season.

As JB indicates: it is not a great investment but you could see a theoretical possibility of it happening.

 

[Red Rooster]

I am hearing that the super teams cannot train with the academy. If this is the case then its a disaster on both sides - no pathway connection and no upskilling and knowledge of the super teams tactics, call etc make the players less uselful - I think this might be an expensive lemon - philosophically right but practically wrong - i also hear that the A program is also in limbo as there is now no way to align the players to provincial teams - anyone hearing this???

 

[Brumby Jack]

I am hearing that the super teams cannot train with the academy. If this is the case then its a disaster on both sides - no pathway connection and no upskilling and knowledge of the super teams tactics, call etc make the players less uselful - I think this might be an expensive lemon - philosophically right but practically wrong - i also hear that the A program is also in limbo as there is now no way to align the players to provincial teams - anyone hearing this???

Yes with the Academy in Sydney and Brisbane only, it's hardly fair for the Force, Brumbies and Rebels is it?

 

[Lee Grant]

Rooster

Haven't heard anything about it.

No doubt there will be a lot of glitches in the new system. At least the ARU is taking a new step. It may be a backward step, but it's a step. We have all kinds of theoretical arguments for and against the NA system but we may have to suck it and see, as the bishop said to the actress, and review it later on.


Not to the point of that but I believe a forum member posted that the ARU used to fund payments made to players in the professional academies of the Super teams, except the Rebels, which was a privately owned entity.

For 2012 though, the ARU is funding the EPS payments for the 5 players attached to each squad; so I assume that Melbourne is included in this arrangement.

If so, that is a plus for the Rebels in 2012. Also, if they eventually get access to players in the NA that is another plus for 2012 as like other teams, they would not have had to pay for training them notwithstanding that they are privately owned and had to pay full freight for 2011.

I see these EPS and NA innovations as advantageous for the Rebels compared to what happened before, but my facts and/or assumptions may be bunk. Can anybody in the know confirm or rebut what I wrote?
.

 

[Langthorne]

I'd really like the ARU to support the clubs (in all states), both financially and in terms of specialist coaches and training programmes, so that the clubs act in effect like our academy system. This type of approach would, I believe, eventually produce better results, and it would also mean the hard heads are developed and supported just as much as the young hot shots.

Whilst that is being planned and developed, the NA system is better than nothing (I hope).

 

[Bruce Ross]

Langthorne, your suggestion is the logical way forward. The new National Academy system involves plucking players out of their clubs and paying them to train in the Sydney and Brisbane academies. The amounts they are being paid would probably not recompense most of them for the time and cost of travelling to a central location. A more enlightened approach would be to have specialist coaches travel to the Sydney and Brisbane Premiership Clubs to provide high standard training to a select group of committed Grade and Colts players. Some clubs, such as Sydney Uni, have their own EDS type programs and therefore do not need this assistance but other clubs are in desperate need of it.

The wise implementation of such a system would mean that a vastly greater number of players would have access to elite level coaching and the disparity in playing standard between clubs would be progressively redressed.

I doubt that a club-focussed development system would cost much more than the National Academies which are basically a variant of the hugely unsuccessful provincial academies which preceded them.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

Does anyone have any definite names of who is in the Academy

 

[Drew]

Does anyone have any definite names of who is in the Academy

The Mossad code had some

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

The Mossad code had some

I saw that but where did he get the names from. Also, does he mean that all NSW and Qld based 2011 schoolboys are in

 

[fatprop]

I doubt that a club-focussed development system would cost much more than the National Academies which are basically a variant of the hugely unsuccessful provincial academies which preceded them.

dunno, most clubs can't afford a EDS system, employing a small elite coaching staff and using current facilities for two states seems cheaper and better control wise than letting club land get their mitts in on it

 

[Bruce Ross]

dunno, most clubs can't afford a EDS system, employing a small elite coaching staff and using current facilities for two states seems cheaper and better control wise than letting club land get their mitts in on it

What I advocated, fp, was "to have specialist coaches travel to the Sydney and Brisbane Premiership Clubs to provide high standard training to a select group of committed Grade and Colts players." That doesn't seem to allow much latitude for "letting club land get their mitts in on it". Further, it is intended specifically for those clubs that "can't afford a EDS system".

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Bruce, which clubs can afford such a system (Sydney UNi?) - who else?

 

[Drew]

I saw that but where did he get the names from. Also, does he mean that all NSW and Qld based 2011 schoolboys are in

Not sure where they got the names, the players obviously know who's in the squad. Perhaps they know someone in the squad? Don't think 2011 schoolboys get in instantly. Pretty sure it's a 30 man squad. The silence is deafening though

 

[Bruce Ross]

Bruce, which clubs can afford such a system (Sydney UNi?) - who else?

I understand that Randwick for example have begun implementing a similar scheme, IS. It's not something that can be done instantaneously. The system at Sydney Uni has been developing for quite a number of years.

My initial post in this thread recognised the reality that most clubs cannot afford such a system themselves; hence the suggestion that the ARU money being poured into the new National Academy system might be better directed into having development focussed at the club level. As you would be well aware there are large number of young players in the clubs who have real potential to develop given appropriate training and guidance.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Is the Randwick situation independent of their licensed club?
Even if it is i can only imagine that a lot of money has to be found wherever it comes from....

 

[Langthorne]

No doubt a club based endeavour would cost quite a bit, but it would be a case of extending existing facilities and programmes over time. In the short term there is a lot the ARU could do in terms of sending in expert trainers etc. Over time, and with the knowledge that the ARU will continue to support them, I suspect that the clubs would make continued investment in this area(be it in terms of facilities, coaching development, player development, links with Super teams).

The other point is that investing in clubs is likely to have a broader impact, and there is much less chance of any white elephant developments - the clubs are (and have been) in it for the long term.

 

[Bowside]

Does the ARU have a time frame for establishing academy's in ACT, VIC and WA?

Would have to be 5-10 years away at best the way money is.

With the kiwis also starting to feel the effects of poaching by toyota cup teams, if I was the running things I'd be trying to get a trans-tasman U21 comp set up based around the 10 super rugby teams. Not only would such a comp provide a solid pathway, but would also allow for the EPS spots to be filled up by seasoned club players rather than 17 year olds. Its a win-win really, especially for the kiwis as it would flow nicely into the NPC season.

Only problem is funding, my guess would be it would cost about 500 thousand per team per season. But when you think about what currently gets spent on the national academy, the 7's (which is soon to get olympic money) and to a lesser extent the NTS; the increase in spending would not be as great as it initially seems. Still probably not feasible at the moment, but it should be the goal for the future.

 

[Bowside]

Im not at all anti-club rugby, but I just think that if you condense (5 competitions x 10-12 teams) worth of talent into 5 teams, based around a professional structure, with a clear pathway to higher honours than you are going to get a better outcome.