Munster v. Australia

[Budgie]

Thanks for the clarification. The name rhymes I guess in a funny sort of way.

Awesome that Darryl is remembered by having two bits of rugby legislation related to his impact on the game.

Interesting thing is that the NZers cry foul about the underarm bowl, but the up the jumper move is seen as cheeky and nowhere as "unsporting" as the underarm. Both moves were legal at the time they were employed in their respective games. hmmm

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Brock was a great and innovative coach

Brock was good value, even though he was before my time. He instilled a self belief and aggression in the Australian players that was badly needed.

 

[Lee Grant]

Van Humphries may have been the only name widely accepted, but Phil Waugh (as a leader and hard/bleeding head) and Al Baxter (seasoned if less hard headed) were both also proposed by me.

You are quite right and I misspoke when I mentioned that Humphries was the only hard head that folks were thinking of as being needed in the original Wallabies squad of 2010. I had notionally factored in the injuries of Waugh and Baxter, but as you say: they were crocked after the original 2010 squad was picked.

I remember that I excused the omission of Waugh at the time because Hodgson was MOTM as a 7 in that epic encounter when Pocock was injured for the Force v. Tahs match earlier this year; so why not let a younger man have a shot to back up Pocock. I also excused the non-selection of Baxter for the initial 2010 Oz Squad because he had been pinged too much by refs in test matches previously, and rightly or wrongly didn't matter. But when our props started having problems many of us thought that Le Fuse should have been recalled but he was injured himself not long after.

The shyness in contact of both the Wallaby and dirt-tracker packs has been galling to watch on this trip. We saw episodes of softness in some Bledisloe matches recently: notably in Melbourne this year and at the Cake Tin in 2009. We crow about our ability to run opponents off their feet when we are allowed to play the brand of rugby that suits our nature and experience, but have not appreciated as fans that we cannot play that kind of game unless it has been earned up front.

It is nice to score a few tries to win a game with 20 or 30 minutes of brilliant rugby as we did against the Poms in Perth, but a week later it didn't serve, and at HQ last week very few brilliancies were permitted by the pragmatic Poms.

I am glad (in an odd way, because we lost) that old fashioned physicality will trump any dodging of hard contests, because such should be the fabric of our game.

This is the Munster thread? Excuse me - but the vibe of what I said applies to that match also.

I love the vibe.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Brock was a great and innovative coach

Brock's great innovation was his "Step Forward" policy. Australian teams had always been intimidated by the Springboks, All Blacks, England and Wales. Brockhoff determined that his players would never take a backward step and he fired his forwards up with his unique style of rhetoric. Before one of the 1975 Tests against England he roared: "You'll run out, you'll line up on the other side of halfway, you'll see those dirty, rotten Pommy bastards, you'll sing Advance Australia Fair, and then you're going to go through them like a madman in a glass factory with a crowbar."

The First Test in Sydney saw the emergence of the "Phantom Puncher" Steve Finnane who wreaked havoc among the English forwards.

The second Test was tagged "The Battle of Brisbane" An Australian journo wrote: "Though Australia started with boots, knees and fists from the kick-off, it was England who paid the penalty when Burton was sent off." This was in the third minute of the game. British commentator Vivian Jenkins thundered: "Brockhoff may not have committed the actual offences on the field at Brisbane, but when a team starts kicking its opponents from the word 'go' as the Australians did, the man in charge is bound to be identified with it in the minds of his opponents."

Finnane achieved legendary rogue status again under Brockhoff when playing against the touring Welsh team in 1978. In the Second Test in Sydney, Welsh prop Graham Price was assisted from the field with Dr Geoff Vanderfield holding his broken jaw in place after only five minutes.

Inevitably and rightly rugby has become a very different game now but Australia once again has deficiencies in the man-to-man physical contest. Perhaps it may be time for a present day equivalent of Dave Brockhoff to show our players how to win respect.

 

[Richo]

FP, with the 22 who played on the weekend against England, I agree. I think we have the backline to do it in 2011, but without the likes of TPN, Horwill and Palu, we don't have the pack to do it. It all starts there and we aren't getting enough go forward from the current pigs.

Not to mention the Ben(n)s finding some form.

 

[macg101]

I had noticed you fell foul of a bit of abuse from Georgy Hook, I wouldnt pay too much notice, hes in there to fly over the top! Entertainment value is huge though, a few of his quotes


"You can add Thomond Park to Fatima, Knock and Lourdes. The lame will come here and walk, they'll be selling water here, because this defies logic."


"If they say 'We knew Italy would be hard to beat', I'll vomit on my Jaffa Cakes."


"France haven't been beaten like that since Hitler marched down the Champs-Élysées."


"they're using statistics in the same way that a drunk uses a lamp-post...to prop himself up"

"a journalist in politics is like a eunuch in a brothel..they see what's to be done, they know how to do it, but when the time comes they just can't do it"

"This would be the greatest achievement ever" Rugby pundit George Hook tells Tom McGurk ahead of the Grand Slam decider between Ireland and England.

"Why ? " McGurk replies.

"Because when our lads defeated the English to win it in 1947 at Ravenhill the opposition had been at war for six years and were unprepared and undernourished. We, on the other hand had been in intensive training and were filled with rashers and sausages. It was a mismatch"

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Old George Hook is often given to hyperbole. One eyed as a cyclops, but entertaining nonetheless. I've heard and read many disparaging remarks about our rugby, so this is nothing new.

 

[Lee Grant]

Bruce

Good stuff up there about Brockie. :thumb


macq101

He's an entertainer isn't he?

There's some classics there - thanks for the mention of them.

Another commentator I enjoy is Connor Morris but he's not outrageous as Hook is.

 

[observer]

Brock's great innovation was his "Step Forward" policy. The second Test was tagged "The Battle of Brisbane" An Australian journo wrote: "Though Australia started with boots, knees and fists from the kick-off,

I think I remember reading that Brock instructed his troops to "kick anything above grass level".

 

[fatprop]

Brock's great innovation was his "Step Forward" policy. Australian teams had always been intimidated by the Springboks, All Blacks, England and Wales. Brockhoff determined that his players would never take a backward step and he fired his forwards up with his unique style of rhetoric. Before one of the 1975 Tests against England he roared: "You'll run out, you'll line up on the other side of halfway, you'll see those dirty, rotten Pommy bastards, you'll sing Advance Australia Fair, and then you're going to go through them like a madman in a glass factory with a crowbar."

The First Test in Sydney saw the emergence of the "Phantom Puncher" Steve Finnane who wreaked havoc among the English forwards.

The second Test was tagged "The Battle of Brisbane" An Australian journo wrote: "Though Australia started with boots, knees and fists from the kick-off, it was England who paid the penalty when Burton was sent off." This was in the third minute of the game. British commentator Vivian Jenkins thundered: "Brockhoff may not have committed the actual offences on the field at Brisbane, but when a team starts kicking its opponents from the word 'go' as the Australians did, the man in charge is bound to be identified with it in the minds of his opponents."

Finnane achieved legendary rogue status again under Brockhoff when playing against the touring Welsh team in 1978. In the Second Test in Sydney, Welsh prop Graham Price was assisted from the field with Dr Geoff Vanderfield holding his broken jaw in place after only five minutes.

Inevitably and rightly rugby has become a very different game now but Australia once again has deficiencies in the man-to-man physical contest. Perhaps it may be time for a present day equivalent of Dave Brockhoff to show our players how to win respect.

I also like the stories of him walking around outside the oval at Uni training using the picket fence to judge whether the forwards were low enough, and I understand he is still usually out at the airport to cheer Aus sides as they return winners or not

 

[Hawko]

I'm with you, Langthorne. There seems to be an unfortunate tendency to criticise our million-dollar-man just because we lose most of our matches and tend to play a headless chook style of rugby. It's easy to say after the event that Robbie Deans should have warned the dirt trackers that the playing conditions at Munster were likely to be a little difficult, and that therefore the team should use the wind when they had it, throw short into the lineout, get the backs to stand closer together, etc., etc. But you can hardly expect a coach to think of everything.

This is particularly the case when the master strategist's mind is not focussed on the here and now but rather on the grand mission which is now less than a year away. As the Sydney Morning Herald reported:

Deans argued the experience was invaluable to the build-up to the Rugby World Cup.

Now I'm not about to pretend that I comprehend how having your B team play Leicester and Munster "is the closest thing to World Cup rugby that we can get." But I can still recall the 'Seventies when Dave Brockhoff was the national coach. To my knowledge no one ever understood a word that Brock was saying but that didn't stop him being a very successful Bledisloe Cup winning coach.

All I'm asking is that Australian rugby supporters keep the faith. Never doubt Robbie Deans's ability to lead us out of the wilderness, even if just at the moment we can't see a foot in front of us.

Some of your best writing, Bruce, well done.

 

[observer]

How do you reckon today's crop of players would react to this Brock gem. John Welborn recalled before his first match against Queensland that Brockhoff was brought in to talk to the NSW players. Brock's speech went something like this:

"It's in the noodle fellas. Passed down from God himself through Moses, Danie Craven, then to Brock. The fruit boys, the FRUIT! Starts with you Philly my boy you Randwick #$%^, air traffic control waving you in on the button, Timmy Gavin giving Mary Poppins off the back, fighter pilots in like sharks through muddy waters, then it's the heavy lifters boy, crowbars through broken windows, legs over the harbour bridge, like thieves in the night at the Opera House, we're in, we loot the joint, and we're out.

Quick seed to the Dancing Man all day fellas, like wind through the wheat. Centre stage, I want to see arms through the briar bushes and dinosaur steps through the guts. Little Sammy, you're the lion tamer. And boys, when we get to the top of the mountain, grand piano stuff, we plant the flag! Above all, slaughter house. Friday night fight night at the old showgrounds, blood on the floor, Enola Gay dropping the H-bomb, no prisoners! And one last thing boys, this weekend, no dropped ball north of the Tweed

 

[DPK]

I also like the stories of him walking around outside the oval at Uni training using the picket fence to judge whether the forwards were low enough, and I understand he is still usually out at the airport to cheer Aus sides as they return winners or not

I heard a story, may have been the same guy, once the Wob's were at the airport, returning home after losing in NZ (I think) and a woman who worked at the airport was trying to move a large trolley full of luggage. She got low and gave it a good shove and it budged, and the coach exclaimed (quiet loudly) "Good body height!"

 

[Gagger]

How do you reckon today's crop of players would react to this Brock gem. John Welborn recalled before his first match against Queensland that Brockhoff was brought in to talk to the NSW players. Brock's speech went something like this:

"It's in the noodle fellas. Passed down from God himself through Moses, Danie Craven, then to Brock. The fruit boys, the FRUIT! Starts with you Philly my boy you Randwick #$%^, air traffic control waving you in on the button, Timmy Gavin giving Mary Poppins off the back, fighter pilots in like sharks through muddy waters, then it's the heavy lifters boy, crowbars through broken windows, legs over the harbour bridge, like thieves in the night at the Opera House, we're in, we loot the joint, and we're out.

Quick seed to the Dancing Man all day fellas, like wind through the wheat. Centre stage, I want to see arms through the briar bushes and dinosaur steps through the guts. Little Sammy, you're the lion tamer. And boys, when we get to the top of the mountain, grand piano stuff, we plant the flag! Above all, slaughter house. Friday night fight night at the old showgrounds, blood on the floor, Enola Gay dropping the H-bomb, no prisoners! And one last thing boys, this weekend, no dropped ball north of the Tweed

Hunter S Thompson at his best! How did Welborn ever remember that to get it down?!

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Observer that is gold. I always had a suspicion that old Brock was mad as a brush, but this just confirms it.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Observer that is gold. I always had a suspicion that old Brock was mad as a brush, but this just confirms it.

Actually, BH, he's not. If you're around him long enough it all makes sense. This thread reminded me that I have to organise for him and a few of us who identify with him to have lunch before Xmas.

When I say it all makes sense, it's a bit like a foreign language where you don't understand every phrase but you get the sense of what's being said. And some things you've heard so often either directly or second hand that you know precisely what he's getting at. There's meaning and "rugby worthiness" - a favourite Brock phrase - in everything he roared at the astonished young Waratahs during that extraordinary declamation.

But overlaying that it's the passion and the rhythm of the phrases flowing without pause one after the other. Pure poetry.

I think that Welborn got a few phrases wrong. "Legs over the Harbour bridge" doesn't convey much meaning but it may be what was said.

"Starts with you Philly my boy you Randwick #$%^." That's pure Brock, not missing a beat as he proceeds to reel off a succession of classic Brock phrases without pausing for breath or thought.

I love the wonderful old man, one of the true originals.

Reading the Welborn recollection you can understand why the Wallabies could play like men possessed back in the 'Seventies. Did he tell them to go in with "boots, knees and fists"? Probably not in so many words but you can see how they would have taken such a message out on to the field.

Did he coach 10-man rugby? Certainly, but that's only part of the story. Rubbishing the "twinkle toes" was an important element of how he got the forwards activated. Without that we would never have commanded respect from the senior nations.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

It was a term of endearment Bruce