Melbourne Rebels 2024

[Confucius Say]

Disappointing for Rebels fans. But this is probably not a bad thing for rugby in this country.

A franchise in Melbourne feels forced (no pun intended) and 3-4 teams is the absolute maximum we have in terms of talent.

Happy to be shot down but 5 SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) teams is too many for the state rugby is in.

 

[dru]

Disappointing for Rebels fans. But this is probably not a bad thing for rugby in this country.

A franchise in Melbourne feels forced (no pun intended) and 3-4 teams is the absolute maximum we have in terms of talent.

Happy to be shot down but 5 SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) (Super Rugby Pacific) teams is too many for the state rugby is in.

I have commented on this sort of edit (sorry) tripe thinking so often simply consider yourself shot? IMO the problem is not too many teams it is not enough content.

On a different note, I don't see how this becomes OK for 2024 season and then out. Rebels are apparently in voluntary admin - that is not going to wait until 2025 to bring to a closure simply because it might suit RA contract obligations to 5 teams. They need to solve it now or not at all.

I had also been thinking that perhaps they might let the Rebels brand fall and phoenix an alternate team in Melbourne. But the damage is not just to Rebels but to rugby, I don't think that works either. RA have a headache here but it doesn't necessarily mean a cut to 4 teams.

It is certainly a tough time but we should keep watching this space for now.

 

[KevinO]

I don't agree with 5 teams being to much for Australia, Ireland have 4 teams with a population of 5 million people. Rugby is also 4th most popular sport like Australia, it's poorly managed at the top. That's where the issue starts, then tiny season meaning clubs can never gain traction or compete against the money available in other leagues.

 

[Equalizer]

Are there not enough interested Billionaires in Australia that want to buy a rugby team? RA should loosen its control, because they've demonstrated their ineptitude at running this game, and let the Super teams be privately owned and run.

Tough situation, us Force supporters well and truly know the pain of losing a team (if it happens). Some of us also know the pain of being banned from this forum during those tough times.

The cards are on the table but an ace can still be pulled out of the sleeve for a winning hand.

 

[Confucius Say]

Checks

I don't agree with 5 teams being to much for Australia, Ireland have 4 teams with a population of 5 million people. Rugby is also 4th most popular sport like Australia, it's poorly managed at the top. That's where the issue starts, then tiny season meaning clubs can never gain traction or compete against the money available in other leagues.

Not comparing apples to apples. It’s nothing to do with relative population. Australia has 27m people but Ireland is 94% white Irish whereas half of Australia’s rugby players are Polynesian. The 4 professional Irish provinces don’t play Super Rugby against NZ provinces. They play in Europe where there’s more dollars. Further, clubs like Munster can be traced back to the late 1800s. It’s a traditional rugby region. Unlike Melbourne.

Super Rugby should go.

 

[Slim 293]

Disappointing for Rebels fans. But this is probably not a bad thing for rugby in this country.

A franchise in Melbourne feels forced (no pun intended) and 3-4 teams is the absolute maximum we have in terms of talent.

Happy to be shot down but 5 SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) (Super Rugby Pacific) teams is too many for the state rugby is in.

No.

 

[TSR]

Not really much I can contribute here but I do want to express my sympathies to all the Rebels fans on here that you are having to deal with this. I can only hope that either the reports are overblown and/or a solution presents itself quickly.

 

[Rebel man]

I can’t see how the club isn’t around next year. If the reports are true that the state government is offering 50m plus to host the finals and semi’s and that is contingent upon a Melbourne side. As was printed in the same article about the debt and entering administration then Rugby Australia simply can not cut them. There has been no reports of WA or NSW putting any money on the table to host the final

 

[Mick The Munch]

Checks

Not comparing apples to apples. It’s nothing to do with relative population. Australia has 27m people but Ireland is 94% white Irish whereas half of Australia’s rugby players are Polynesian. The 4 professional Irish provinces don’t play Super Rugby against NZ provinces. They play in Europe where there’s more dollars. Further, clubs like Munster can be traced back to the late 1800s. It’s a traditional rugby region. Unlike Melbourne.

Super Rugby should go.

Rugbys been played here over 100 years

 

[Dan54]

Geez was hoping that the reports about Rebels was a bit of scaremongering etc by press. It's not bloody good at all. I said same when a couple of NH clubs went broke, I got no joy there either and was a little disappointed that some were almost crowing about ot from down this way. It seems to hit home even more whan it's a team/frachise down our way and I hope some answer is found for clubs in similar state. I personally will rip shit out of anyone who thinks it funny etc over here in NZ, sure somebody will (as will I sure some leaguies etc in Aus).
Add to that I had said here, and other places that I thought Rebels looked to be a pretty handy team this year, it could just maybe play on player's minds etc?
I hope a resolution that allows the club to keep going in future is found.

 

[Rebelsfan]

Just did some further reading in the AFR - which reported a couple of days ago that: "Administrators of troubled dental supplier SmileStyler have found the company backed by Melbourne-based businessman Paul Docherty may have been trading while insolvent for at least the last 18 months" - this has been reported to ASIC, and further: "SmileStyler’s major investor, BRC Capital, the investment vehicle of Mr Docherty, is embroiled in a series of tax disputes and is contending with the collapse of 10 different businesses over the last two months...Another subsidiary run by the serial entrepreneur, Hiro Brands, owes more than $45 million to creditors, reflecting a disastrous two years ... Of the estimated $45 million in group debt, $13.5 million is owed to Hiro’s secured creditors including Westpac, $3 million to employees, and $5.1 million to the tax office according to KPMG.
Administrators took control of SmileStyler last month, and in their report identified at least $9.1 million in borrowings incurred while possibly trading insolvent. The report also suggested there could be breaches of the Victorian Wage Theft Act and directors’ duties."

How can Docherty possibly be kept on as Rebels Chairman ? He needs to step down or be voted out at a extraordinary meeting or what ever the fk they call it.

 

[Highlander35]

Putting aside all the "I don't think I would voluntarily support to Australian Rugby" stuff.

I'll be interested intellectually to see to what extent players are also considered as assets. I don't know the wage bill of anyone in particular, but if token buyout amounts were offered for say Ekuasi, or Proctor, or even just someone without an existing top up contract, could we be obligated to take it and remove that wage bill (presuming the player says yes)?

 

[Adam84]

Just did some further reading in the AFR - which reported a couple of days ago that: "Administrators of troubled dental supplier SmileStyler have found the company backed by Melbourne-based businessman Paul Docherty may have been trading while insolvent for at least the last 18 months" - this has been reported to ASIC, and further: "SmileStyler’s major investor, BRC Capital, the investment vehicle of Mr Docherty, is embroiled in a series of tax disputes and is contending with the collapse of 10 different businesses over the last two months...Another subsidiary run by the serial entrepreneur, Hiro Brands, owes more than $45 million to creditors, reflecting a disastrous two years ... Of the estimated $45 million in group debt, $13.5 million is owed to Hiro’s secured creditors including Westpac, $3 million to employees, and $5.1 million to the tax office according to KPMG.
Administrators took control of SmileStyler last month, and in their report identified at least $9.1 million in borrowings incurred while possibly trading insolvent. The report also suggested there could be breaches of the Victorian Wage Theft Act and directors’ duties."

How can Docherty possibly be kept on as Rebels Chairman ? He needs to step down or be voted out at an extraordinary meeting or what ever the fk they call it.

Called him incompetent before Christmas despite heavy objections of an individual in here. Theres just too much going on here now, even if he started with good intentions his ability to actually deliver is missing, incompetence isn’t an excuse either when it comes to ruining livelihoods.

He needs to step down and he should have already, even if not at fault for those issues above he is clearly a distracted man and can’t be committing the time to the Rebels that they need right now.

 

[Wilson]

Putting aside all the "I don't think I would voluntarily support to Australian Rugby" stuff.

I'll be interested intellectually to see to what extent players are also considered as assets. I don't know the wage bill of anyone in particular, but if token buyout amounts were offered for say Ekuasi, or Proctor, or even just someone without an existing top up contract, could we be obligated to take it and remove that wage bill (presuming the player says yes)?

Probably not obligated to, given the need to run a full a squad to meet commitments to the competition. That said a buyout offered for a player where there is a fair bit of depth in the roster (prop, backrow and maybe centre) would be hard for the organization to ignore, particularly if the player is not a front line.

The flip side is I'm not sure the organization will be able to make any signings (or probably even re-signings) in the near term which means any departures start leaving holes in the squad for next year. I'm guessing they'll want to keep that eventuality at bay as much as possible until it becomes necessary for survival - if the Rebels scrape through this year but are left rebuilding the squad for 2025 they'll still be in significant danger, particularly with the broadcast deal coming to an end.

 

[Dan54]

And the other big worry is of course, if RA do prop them up, they will have a hell of a job attrcting good players anyway? I am guessing any player who's contract finishes this or probably next year will be instructing manager to find another team quick smart.

 

[liquor box]

Disappointing for Rebels fans. But this is probably not a bad thing for rugby in this country.

A franchise in Melbourne feels forced (no pun intended) and 3-4 teams is the absolute maximum we have in terms of talent.

Happy to be shot down but 5 SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) (Super Rugby Pacific) teams is too many for the state rugby is in.

What are your thoughts on overseas base Wallabies?

Last year we had Nonggorr play at a world cup, I love the kid and think he will do great things but if all Australian based THP's were fit, what number in the pecking order would he be?

With 5 teams (and conveniently ignoring overseas players) you at least have a chance for 10 Wallabies getting regular minutes on the field. 3-4 teams only gives us 6-8 players to call up to National duties.

My biggest loss in relation to Melbourne is that there will never be another Super AU, which I think was the best super rugby we have had.

 

[dru]

My biggest loss in relation to Melbourne is that there will never be another Super AU, which I think was the best super rugby we have had.

IMO the reason that Super Au was so popular here was because of Au not because of Super. I would not see it as a loss to not see Super again and anything that leads to Au again has a major upside.

All that said, the biggest loss of Melbourne is much more than that and is irrelevant to the Super v Au discussion. It loses what is possibly now, and very likely the future largest sporting market in Australia, on it's own larger than all of NZ right now. I would immeasurably prefer to keep Victoria and lose NZ.

 

[KOB1987]

These are outdated, amateur era obsessions, completely irrelevant to the on field success of any professional sporting organisation…

And largely irrelevant to the Rebels’ woes - if they fold, which would be very, very bad for Australian rugby, some of their players are absorbed by the remaining teams, the rest head overseas, Victorian rugby suffers, reduced pathways, fans lost to the game etc.

There’s no merger, or alliance, or whatever you want to call it.

I would be interested to know precisely how having a bigger organic player pool to draw from equates to an amateur era obsession. However, I was merely creating hypotheticals and this appears to be now coming to fruition a bit sooner than expected. So, out of respect for the Rebels supporters I'm going to leave my 2 cents worth out of what should be done from here, it's not up to me or you to decide how best to maintain a professional pathway for our Victorian players present and future, but I just hope that is front of mind at RA with regards to this situation.

 

[Brumby Runner]

KOB, I think having a catchment area for a professional sporting team these days is more about capturing, attracting and keeping fans rather than players. Professional sporting teams will source their players from wherever they are available and certainly won't restrict themselves to, nor necessarily favour, players who originate in a notional catchment area. I just don't see Victorians being conducive to supporting a team based out of their State, while the best players in the area will ply their trade wherever they can get the best deal.

 

[KOB1987]

I don't disagree with most of that BR. I am fully aware that in a professional environment the players are going to favour the franchise that presents them with the combination of the best opportunity and the best offer, and throw location in there as well. However, unless there is a specific reason to commence negotiations elsewhere (e.g. climate, don't like the coach etc) the starting point for the majority of players is going to be with the pathway which has brought them to this point in time. There aren't enough spots for all the NSW and Qld players to end up at their home states so a lot end up at the other 3 franchises, and the Brumbies in particular are proactive with this knowledge and attempt to nab some of the better players early on, knowing they won't have enough local talent going forward. All I'm suggesting is that it makes a lot of sense both in terms of both geography and the lack of local talent on the roster for the Brumbies to capture the likes of Samu, Leota, Valetini etc early on in their development. Who are Victorians going to support if there is no Rebels?