Melbourne Rebels 2024

[Dctarget]

Stiles comes across impressively in his discussion about Tupou and Pone. Understandable why Tupou wanted out of QLD. https://www.theroar.com.au/2024/04/...dict-as-wallaby-battles-to-reignite-his-fire/

 

[LeCheese]

Stiles comes across impressively in his discussion about Tupou and Pone. Understandable why Tupou wanted out of QLD. https://www.theroar.com.au/2024/04/...dict-as-wallaby-battles-to-reignite-his-fire/

Citing the comments on the article, he averaged 65min from 2020-2023 - I don't think that's too far from expected for a front rower? (Noting of course that game time is only one element of overall workload)

 

[Adam84]

Tests props like Genge, Schoeman, Atonio, Furlong, Kitshoff, Cole etc all reguarly play more games and minutes in a year then Tupou did in his last year before injury. If you want to look at a test prop who has played some seriously impressive minutes then look at Dan Coles.. Tupou pales in comparison.

Those comments by Stiles does paint a picture of why Tupou joined Melbourne and is lacking in fitness at the moment though.

 

[Highlander35]

Citing the comments on the article, he averaged 65min from 2020-2023 - I don't think that's too far from expected for a front rower? (Noting of course that game time is only one element of overall workload)

My recollection was that in 20 & 21 he was played fairly normally (sometimes 50 minutes, sometimes 65 or a little more, depending on the opposition) and then in '22 Thorn went balls to the wall playing him ~70 minutes each game.

I don't have the stats to back that up, but given the impacted nature of the two 20 & 21 seasons I can imagine it may have felt like a big increase in workload anyway.

 

[Highlander35]

Tests props like Genge, Schoeman, Atonio, Furlong, Kitshoff, Cole etc all reguarly play more games and minutes in a year then Tupou did in his last year before injury. If you want to look at a test prop who has played some seriously impressive minutes then look at Dan Coles.. Tupou pales in comparison.

Those comments by Stiles does paint a picture of why Tupou joined Melbourne and is lacking in fitness at the moment though.

in the 22/23 season Dan Cole played 25 times over 36 game weeks: 20 games for Leicester averaging 57 minutes in his 17 starts and 29 minutes in his three bench appearances. He also played 5 times from the bench in the 6 Nations averaging 19 minutes.

In 21/22, he played 26 times over 39 game weeks, all for Leicester. Averaging 27 minutes in his 5 bench appearances, and 60 minutes in his 21 starts.

He had a number of seasons where that number was closer to 30, but again, over nearly 40 gameweeks.

I don't think comparing the "slog" of the European season to Super Rugby is appropriate.

 

[TSR]

If I recall correctly Nonggorr missed most/all of 2022 and I feel like there was some other issues around injury/availability/quality of the other props. I seem to recall thinking Thorn didn’t have a lot of options to cut back his time.

 

[LeCheese]

My recollection was that in 20 & 21 he was played fairly normally (sometimes 50 minutes, sometimes 65 or a little more, depending on the opposition) and then in '22 Thorn went balls to the wall playing him ~70 minutes each game.

I don't have the stats to back that up, but given the impacted nature of the two 20 & 21 seasons I can imagine it may have felt like a big increase in workload anyway.

The opposite is the case - 2020, 2021 were his biggest years. Average game time as follows:

Season​	Avg. minutes​	Total # matches​	# matches 70min+​
2020 (pre-Covid Super)	71	8	6
2020 (post-Covid Super AU)	75	9	7
2021	68	14	7
2022	56	10	1

As TSR says, the Reds seriously suffered from a dearth of props due to injury across much of those years, so there was limited alternative. He absolutely put in some huge shifts over the seasons, but should it not be expected for a prop to go 65+ most weeks?

 

[Derpus]

Citing the comments on the article, he averaged 65min from 2020-2023 - I don't think that's too far from expected for a front rower? (Noting of course that game time is only one element of overall workload)

Arguably he played too many minutes per game but as with all the rest - far too few games overall.

I reckon a prop would be getting that many domestic games under their belt up north in 2 seasons, not four.

 

[Highlander35]

The opposite is the case - 2020, 2021 were his biggest years. Average game time as follows:

Season​	Avg. minutes​	Total # matches​	# matches 70min+​
2020 (pre-Covid Super)	71	8	6
2020 (post-Covid Super AU)	75	9	7
2021	68	14	7
2022	56	10	1

As TSR says, the Reds seriously suffered from a dearth of props due to injury across much of those years, so there was limited alternative. He absolutely put in some huge shifts over the seasons, but should it not be expected for a prop to go 65+ most weeks?

Fair enough. All those seasons kind of blur into each other and 2022 was probably the season I paid least attention to honestly, I worked basically every weekend in that period.

But I think most weeks is the key.

There will be games where the appropriate thing to do is play your number 1 for 65+ minutes. Injury, must wins with a big gap, protecting a junior etc.

But expecting blokes to do so in 40, 50%+ of fixtures is an issue of squad management and player development. We're talking blokes at minimum will be rocking 110kg, many probably closer to 125kg.

Do I think Nela should be fitter, be playing more, and am, maybe just a little bit disappointed in his attitude? 100% But I can understand wanting to be at a side with 3 other Super Quality options (journeymen may they be) at tighthead looking at those stats, rather than 1 journeyman and a few juniors and "best of" available.

 

[Ignoto]

3 other Super Quality options (journeymen may they be) at tighthead looking at those stats, rather than 1 journeyman and a few juniors and "best of" available.

Hah with statements like this, are you at all surprised at the financial hole the Rebels have gotten themselves into?

Is playing 50-60 minutes 10 times a year really that hard for a 20 something year old?

 

[TSR]

There are lots of variables and conflicting interests but it does seem odd to me that in a position that almost always gets substitutes and is regularly rotated, Tupou played the second most minutes of any player.

 

[Slim 293]

From memory, AAA was playing similar minutes to Tupou around 2019-2020…

 

[Highlander35]

Is playing 50-60 minutes 10 times a year really that hard for a 20 something year old?

I think a question like this suggests you've not understood the discussion at hand.

 

[Rebel man]

Tests props like Genge, Schoeman, Atonio, Furlong, Kitshoff, Cole etc all reguarly play more games and minutes in a year then Tupou did in his last year before injury. If you want to look at a test prop who has played some seriously impressive minutes then look at Dan Coles.. Tupou pales in comparison.

Those comments by Stiles does paint a picture of why Tupou joined Melbourne and is lacking in fitness at the moment though.

Different playing more minutes over a 30 plus week season to a 15 game season

 

[Tex]

Geoff Parkes does some good work reporting on the game itself, his comments about anything related to the Rebels board needs to be taken with a grain of salt though.

I enjoy his Roar articles, partly because of the Rebels focus, but more so because they're generally astute.

Curious to hear why comments about the board and governance should be treated cautiously though. Presumably there are close links and potential for perceived conflicts of interest?

 

[Dctarget]

Rumour is there's life in the old girl yet. Rebels 2025 may not be a crazy idea.

 

[Highlander35]

Rumour is there's life in the old girl yet. Rebels 2025 may not be a crazy idea.

 

[Slim 293]

A private equity-backed consortium led by business heavyweight Leigh Clifford is working on a deal to save the Melbourne Rebels by pumping $30 million into the ailing club and relocating the group to Melbourne’s western suburbs.

Under the plan, the Melbourne Rebels’ women’s and men’s professional rugby club would negotiate with Western Melbourne Group, which would see them sharing the Wyndham Regional Football Facility in Tarneit with the Western United A-League Teams.

Melbourne Rebels to share Tarneit with Western United as part of consortium rescue plan

A private equity-backed consortium led by business heavyweight Leigh Clifford is working on a deal to save the Rebels and move the club to Melbourne’s west.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Mick The Munch]

This is great - maybe rebadge to Vic Rebels and visit some other regional stadiums like Western United

 

[Dctarget]

Sah-weet. If that means they play out of Wyndham, then it may as well be based in Auckland for me. But happy to see the Rebels struggle another day. Well done rich, connected business people.