Melbourne Rebels 2024

[stoff]

Explain to me how this current course of action helps anyone but the same board members who ran the Rebels into the ground and I’ll happily change my tune.

NB I do also feel for the individual small businesses who will no doubt be part of the Rebels creditors as those people are no doubt personally impacted by this and God only knows what impact it is having on some of them.

The second group you mention would be the other beneficiary - at the moment they’re not going to get a cent. If a DOCA gets up because the Rebels directors get some money out of RA then they’ll see something. I’d expect in that situation the director loans would be written off - that is the vibe of recent articles.

If $8m to the MRRU (and keep in mind the directors weren’t the owners) tips over RA the MRRU directors can be blamed for the timing but not the outcome. NSWRU allegedly has significant assets and still handed their Waratah debt to RA - that is equally reprehensible and contributory.

 

[Adam84]

Think you’re looking at the wrong report there. Waratahs had $1.5m in equity before being $6m in debt the next year.

where is your source for this
Even the Rebels don't burn through $7.5million in a season

 

[Strewthcobber]

Think you’re looking at the wrong report there. Waratahs had $1.5m in equity before being $6m in debt the next year.

You're missing the third element to the equation.

Equity = Assets minus liability.

The Reds have $12m in debt (2022), but they are fine because they have $44m in assets.

 

[Adam84]

You're missing the third element to the equation.

Equity = Assets minus liability.

The Reds have $12m in debt (2022), but they are fine because they have $44m in assets.

Even that's not the full story.

Current Liabilities can include deferred revenue, which in the case of the Reds 2022 annual report included $8million in government funding for the NRTC as 'deferred revenue' and it shows as a liability, however once the project was finalised this deferred revenue is realised as a statutory profit. Hence why QRU annual report for 2023 showed a $14million statutory profit.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I'm actually ok with that idea, RA goes bust. New governing body is formed with a constitution similar to NZRU and PE is found at the same time. New GB has Lions tour and rwc to prepare for and takes over from a position of strength.

Is it a position of strength?

We see RA go under. A lot of players are gone. They will sign deals to secure their future even if it means missing the Lions and a WC. Rugby is a job for them. Junior players won't sign with Rugby as it's an unknown and seen as a basket case. The ones that do, great. Won't be ready for that level though and here we are uncompetitive again with average sponsorship deal and lame TV deals for the next decade.

 

[SouthernX]

I would love some transparency on wallaby top ups… seems like Waratahs are preferrentially treated when it comes to “””salary cap””” via RA assistance.

if the tahs were 5 million in the hole. How do they afford JS from the roosters

The RA model is a dysfunctional mess and if we have to reinvent the wheel via this lawsuit - so be it. (That wheel needs to have a presence in Australia’s sporting capital) otherwise professional rugby is done in this country

 

[Dctarget]

Difficult for the Rebels to see it from everyone's magnanimous holistic view though.

If you're a founding member of a nascent team that you think has been unfairly treated, you've poured millions of your own cold hard into, that the national union are out to get you of course you'll go down swinging. If this team is dead, rugby in totality is dead to you too.

Doubt they'll be think, 'oh alright chaps, for the health of the union!' as they commit seppuku.

 

[TSR]

The second group you mention would be the other beneficiary - at the moment they’re not going to get a cent. If a DOCA gets up because the Rebels directors get some money out of RA then they’ll see something. I’d expect in that situation the director loans would be written off - that is the vibe of recent articles.

If $8m to the MRRU (and keep in mind the directors weren’t the owners) tips over RA the MRRU directors can be blamed for the timing but not the outcome. NSWRU allegedly has significant assets and still handed their Waratah debt to RA - that is equally reprehensible and contributory.

Sure. It’s beyond question that the Rebels situation is just a long line of issues. No one could realistically claim otherwise.

I completely understand your frustration that the Rebels are paying the price that others have managed to avoid. I’m not going to try and put together some level of heirachy of incompetence.

But the Rebels board put your club in the position where their destiny is subject to the capacity of RA to bail them out. Now they want someone else to take the blame and seem to have taken the path to drag RA down with them.

Again - how does this path of action help anyone?

 

[TSR]

Difficult for the Rebels to see it from everyone's magnanimous holistic view though.

Very true. And I am trying not to be an insensitive prick. Apologies if I am coming off as one. It is a truly shit situation and I do feel for you.

I don’t think thought that bringing RA down helps you guys in any way.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Has anyone seen a legit reason why the Rebels believe RA should be paying Rebel's Wallabies tax bill?

That seems to be the chief argument and basis for legal action (and also the existential threat to RA)

 

[Adam84]

Has anyone seen a legit reason why the Rebels believe RA should be paying Rebel's Wallabies tax bill?

That seems to be the chiefs argument and basis for legal action (and also the existential threat to RA)

legitimate reason; no
desperate reason by directors hoping to avoid a penalty from ATO; yes

 

[Dctarget]

Again - how does this path of action help anyone?

Are you being purposefully obtuse?
RA wins = Rebels cease to exist.
Rebels win = Rebels existence chances > 0.1%

 

[Braveheart81]

Out of all this it's wild that the Rebels weren't the first team to go to Rugby Australia and seek to be brought under the Rugby Australia centralization model.

 

[TSR]

Are you being purposefully obtuse?
RA wins = Rebels cease to exist.
Rebels win = Rebels existence chances > 0.1%

No. Sorry I wasn’t. I would’ve thought there was significantly more chance for the Rebels to exist if the law suit didn’t proceed. If the Rebels win I personally don’t think that translates to them surviving as a team.

 

[Wilson]

Out of all this it's wild that the Rebels weren't the first team to go to Rugby Australia and seek to be brought under the Rugby Australia centralization model.

Best I can tell is that's a flow on from the previous cull - they were terrified that revealing any weakness would see them cut. Understandable, but not exactly good enough from a set of what are supposed to be responsible adults.

 

[Dctarget]

No. Sorry I wasn’t. I would’ve thought there was significantly more chance for the Rebels to exist if the law suit didn’t proceed. If the Rebels win I personally don’t think that translates to them surviving as a team.

Apologies for being snarky. I think the writing is on the wall and the Rebels board are trying everything and anything to see what sticks.

 

[KevinO]

Interesting take out of NZ, North Island, don't care for Rebels. South Island want the Rebels to survive.

With the Melbourne Rebels entering voluntary administration, and Rugby Australia chief executive Phil Waugh offering no long-term commitment to the club, are you concerned that it will damage the Super Rugby Pacific brand?

Blues CEO Andrew Hore: "It is never easy to see an organisation in financial trouble particularly the impact on the people. I don’t think it will damage the brand if we continue to advance working as 12 clubs with support from the respective national bodies to make all of the clubs stronger and fan centric.''
Chiefs CEO Simon Graafhuis: "It's never nice to hear of a club in difficulty, but [we are] not across their position. We know they are confirmed for the coming season, and were competitive last year so expect a competitive side when we play them.’’
Hurricanes CEO Avan Lee: " It’s obviously a tough time for the Rebels and we feel for them. RA have assured us that there is no issue for 2024, but we hope the Rebels will be okay for 2025.''

Crusaders CEO Colin Mansbridge: " Obviously it will have an effect on the competition brand, but there is also no doubt that there is a core underlying competition and brand with Super Rugby Pacific that is special and strong.

"This was only reinforced during our time on the Northern Tour [when the Crusaders played pre-season fixtures against Munster and Bristol]. We had teams and clubs across the UK Premiership and the United Rugby Championship reach out wanting to connect and learn about how we operate, and how the competition here works.
“I’ve experienced, personally, the exceptional job the Rebels have done in their community, and the values and brand they represent. They’ve done a heap of work growing the game in Victoria, especially at a grass roots level. I wish them all the best.''

Highlanders CEO Roger Clark: " It is always concerning to see a Club having financial challenges. We are all in this together and we know how hard the business is.

“Rugby Australia has already stated they are committed to a viable professional team in Victoria so I have confidence this will occur.’’

 

[oztimmay]

I think the lawsuit is more of a bargaining position set by the MRRU board.

Can you imagine discovery for this - no doubt RA will be asked to produce financials, including Waratahs bailout figure, RWC spend, and other things they'd rather hide. Will be very uncomfortable for a lot of RA board members.

What I think is more likely is a negotiated position out of court that sees a professional team remain in Melbourne, hopefully, the Rebels (or a re-birthed Rebels). How that happens is open to speculation, pondering, or just guessing.

 

[LeCheese]

including Waratahs bailout figure

All these mentions of a 'bailout' for the Tahs are farcical and completely revisionist - and I fucking hate the Tahs.

 

[Braveheart81]

As a side note, in terms of looking at various teams financial positions, the overall assets and liabilities isn't a great guide (outside of the net equity). A fair amount of it is just adhering to accounting standards.

If you look at NSW Rugby's financial statements at 31 December 2022 they have current assets of $14m, total assets of $24.5m, current liabilities of $8.3m, total liabilities of $20.3m for net equity of $4.2m.

Important things to look at their is that $10.3m of assets is the right-of-use asset which is the notional value of their lease at Daceyville and $10m of liabilities to offset it. Given there are minimal cash commitments around the use of the Daceyville base those two just unwind against each other.

There's then $6.2m in total of current and non-current liabilities relating to deferred revenue. Some of this is still to be received in cash and some has already been received. Extinguishing this liability literally happens by playing games.