Mark Gerrard back?

[Biffo]

I am not a great fan of Brock James - on a wet or dry track. I have described him on these pages as being very good with the boot but having little other skill. I was soundly reproved by Lee Grant for that opinion .

I have seen one helluva lot of James with Clermont, as I have long had access to tv coverage of the T14 and Heineken Cup. His defence can not be discussed - it doesn't exist. He does virtually no work at the breakdown. His passing skills are about a B+ : if he sees someone in a fair position he hoiks it that way, often via the top of the Harbour Bridge. He has a very limited running game.

James has developed his game at Clermont. It took him some time to re-learn the game and to understand that the first option for a 5/8 in France is the drop goal, preferably in the first minute of the game.

I suspect that James is a standout in France for two reasons. First, there ain't much competition at 5/8. Second, the playing style favours them - the game is set-piece oriented and forwards are heavily committed at breakdown time. That gives the 5/8 the time and space to be very selective about his next kick from the hand. I am sure we all remember so many 5/8s from Yurope who were said (by our friends there) to be the next Barry John and who looked terrific "up there" but floundered when they came up against 3N opposition and got the ball a nano second before they got McCaw, Kronfeld, Michael Jones, Poidevin, David Wilson, George Smith, David Pocock, Sean Fitzpatrick or Bakkies Botha.

James was very well tried in Australia and some acknowledged experts in finding and developing players let him move on. I will not lightly reject their opinions.

If you really want to find an Australian, Yurope-based, kicking 5/8 who goes well in the mud, go no further than Chris Malone. His defence equals that of James, he has been known to make a break and he passes pretty well, with some variety. He's very handy for the drop goal, too.

 

[Lindommer]

If you really want to find an Australian...who goes well in the mud, go no further than Chris Malone... He's very handy for the drop goal, too.

Apart from last week. Missed three dgs and a few penalties, one would've got London Irish into the HC quarters.

 

[Biffo]

If you really want to find an Australian...who goes well in the mud, go no further than Chris Malone... He's very handy for the drop goal, too.

Apart from last week. Missed three dgs and a few penalties, one would've got London Irish into the HC quarters.

Yeah, watched that. Hilarious. Very bad performance by a 5/8 in Europe. He got it all backwards. Missed the penalties and drop goals. Scored a try.

 

[aussie1st]

Don't see the point in moving him giving hes relatively untired and you don't want to take such a massive punt on a new club that is trying to build a fan base. Also Lealiifano or Tomoua might consider moving to the Rebels given Giteau is at the Brumbies and both of them are also competing for their preferred number 10 spot. Gerrard at fullback would be good though, that is his best spot with his speed continuing to decrease and he would give so much experience and stability at the back for the Rebels.

 

[Lee Grant]

Biffo,

I still say that James would have made the French squad in the last two years even if you don't like his play. As for his defence - it never stopped Michalak being selected in the past.

I had a little smile when you mentioned Malone, Biff. London Irish is my GP team and 32 y,o Malone is a plodder, just as he was when he was younger back home. Warwick is twice the player he is. Hewat was a better flyhalf when he filled in there last year, believe it or not. Geraghty was a sad loss for the Exiles this season as they are missing his zing. Mind you - he can't tackle either, yet he played from the bench against the Wallabies for England a few months back.

Ah well - it would be boring if we agreed all the time. It would be like the Western Force forum.

 

[Biffo]

Biffo,

I still say that James would have made the French squad in the last two years even if you don't like his play. As for his defence - it never stopped Michalak being selected in the past.

I had a little smile when you mentioned Malone, Biff. London Irish is my GP team and 32 y,o Malone is a plodder, just as he was when he was younger back home. Warwick is twice the player he is. Hewat was a better flyhalf when he filled in there last year, believe it or not. Geraghty was a sad loss for the Exiles this season as they are missing his zing. Mind you - he can't tackle either, yet he played from the bench against the Wallabies for England a few months back.

Ah well - it would be boring if we agreed all the time. It would be like the Western Force forum.

I don't doubt that James would have made the frog squad if eligible. Defence? I have a little laugh to myself every time someone says a 5/8's defence is suspect - applies to many of the greats in the position. I don't want my 5/8 being all wrapped up in defence - I want him running the backline and positioning the forwards.

I put Malone in for a giggle. I was going to put Manny Edmonds up, but thought you would get a better laugh if I used Malone.

The only disagreement we have is about James' quality. I doubt it ... and I doubt that he would be successful for the Wallabies. I can't think of a James-like 5/8 who ever did the job well for the Wallabies and I suspect that the game will move away from the James types in the near future.

 

[Lee Grant]

Time out - I didn't say he would be a success for the Wallabies. I didn't say he wouldn't be either - though I did say a while back that if he played at Murrayfield for Oz recently we would have won the game.

What I did say is that he would have made the French squad this year and if we agree on that we would have to agree that he would be good enough to start in a Super14 team - and Scotty said he wouldn't be. Ditto for Warwick.

My point was that if either of them were available at the snap of the fingers, the Force would not have used their one marquee foreigner spot on a flyhalf (and would have looked for a hooker instead) - and that the Reds would have made an offer when Barnes defected.

But the first thing I said about Warwick and James is that they were the two best Aussie wet weather players - everything is a digression from that and you know how I hate digressions.

The only comeback is that Aussies don't get a lot of wet weather experience in Oz and it's only when they play in mid winter in NZ or the odd game in Edinburgh in 2009 (edit) or in Dublin a few years ago that we see the lack of skill Oz players have in the wet.

What's that got to do with Gerrard? Would be handy to have in a S14 team, just in case.

 

[Biffo]

I didn't write that you did write anything I just gave some opinions.

Ahh well, I suppose there are worse crimes than being caught by Lee Grant in the act of digressing

No Sir, no card ... pleeeeease

 

[Scotty]

Anyway mate - I didn't even say they were the best Oz international players in the wet. I happened to know that they weren't international players. What I said was: The best Australian players on a wet track are Brock James and Paul Warwick and they play in Europe.

Who do you think are the best Oz 10s and 15s now on a wet track? Think of Murrayfield. Your answer please.

Lee, if you want to be completely honest, I think you'll argee this is a bit of a backtrack from your original statemetn on James and Warwick. When you make a statement such as 'so and so are the best Australian players in wet conditions', what do you think that means? If you don't think two are the best options for Oz in wet international games, then how can you say they are the best oz players on wet tracks? It is confusing.

I would rate my best on who I would like to be playing in a wet world cup final for the wallabies if it were being played today - you are right, the pickings are slim, but not slim enough for me to pick Warwick, James or Biffo's Malone (who I have seen live a fewtimes). Each of these guys have done well over there, but form in Europe or reputation in Europe do not translate to form for the Wallabies, just ask Elsom. Right now I'd have Barnes at 10 and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 15, altough I do agree that Gerrard, like Shepherd could become better options for the 15 spot. Actually, I'd probably be trying to talk Latham out of international retirement.

 

[Lee Grant]

Scotty you said

If you don't think two are the best options for Oz in wet international games, then how can you say they are the best oz players on wet tracks? It is confusing.


I didn't say that, you said I said that. I said that I wasn't talking about internationals when I made the comment that they were the best Aussie players in wet weather (meaning apart from Gerrard who has gone offshore as well). I couldn't because they hadn't played internationals.

But let's talk about internationals since you have bought up the subject. Let's talk about the game at Murrayfield, the most recent wet weather Wallaby game. Brock James would have been the best magic wand option for that night for Oz, to use your words, playing flyhalf instead of Giteau. In particular he would have kicked the ball out of hand better and played like the Scots did better. And as the goal kicker with the highest percentage in the Top14 last time I heard, he would most likely have kicked the conversion which would have won the game.


Does that clear up your confusion? I am saying that if I had a magic wand I would have put Brock James in there on the night. And no - I don't want another red herring argument that you think he wouldn't have been in the squad to start with. It's my magic wand - and I would have it put a 12 on Giteau's jersey too.


Then you wrote:

Right now I'd have Barnes at 10 and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 15, altough I do agree that Gerrard, like Shepherd could become better options for the 15 spot. Actually, I'd probably be trying to talk Latham out of international retirement.

Was this your answer to my question:

Who do you think are the best Oz 10s and 15s now on a wet track?

Let's assume it was. Take Gerrard out because my remarks about Warwick and James were in the context that Gerrard had gone offshore too. You will have to take AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) out also because he was as bad as anybody else at Murrayfield. I excluded Latham too as I supposed him to have retired otherwise I would have mentioned him.

That leaves you with Shepherd and Barnes. Please tell me in what wet weather games they proved to you that they are better than James and Warwick in the games they play - and who play in so many of them?

You may want to waffle and say I wouldn't have them in the Wallaby squad because of this and that. That would be another red herring. With my magic wand they don't have to be in the squad on a wet night until kick off.

If we keep going we will be talking about what did you mean by that word or phrase - and another. We will go around in circles and waste time. I feel that I have explained my thoughts well enough and have nothing more to say on the matter.

 

[Scotty]

You may want to waffle and say I wouldn't have them in the Wallaby squad because of this and that. That would be another red herring. With my magic wand they don't have to be in the squad on a wet night until kick off.

Oh the irony.

Ok then, we will agree to disagree with who I'd choose to start an international game over who you'd choose.

 

[Spook]

Actually, against Scotland we bombed about 4 tries that James would not have created. Winning by a conversion should never have been required. Furthermore, Giteau's coversion rate is not much different to that of Johnny Wilkinson which is pretty decent . Thus in all probability he should have slotted it. Giteau practically kicked everything on tour in 2008.

To say we would have won that game with Brock James is based on what? His international kicking record? His European form? Steve Kefu has been tearing it up for Wasps. Give him the Wallaby 12 jumper.